Pass rush depth remains a key concern

[BlindFaith]

I’m not dismissing it completely.


And Eberflus brought Elam in.


Wilson missed 2 games.


Bland missed 5 games.


Murray and Sanborn were brought in by Eberflus. See where this is going?


Because they weren’t good players. But they were players that Eberflus wanted here.


No. I’m not suggesting an either/or situation. Both certainly played a part.

But I firmly believe that this defense and its’ players will improve by leaps and bounds. And they won’t simply remember how to play football again.

Good catch on Wilson. Never showed up in games to the point I thought he was out more than just 2 games.

Bland though, just because he only missed 5 games doesnt mean it wasnt affecting his play for more.

And sure, if you want to blame Eberflus for all the horrendous acquisitions on defense, then ok? Either way, they were still horrendous.

And yes, they will improve by leaps and bounds. Mostly because they will be new players or players being healthy. With a healthy does of CP and some willingness to actually be creative and adjust game to game.

 

[Diehardblues]

I agree with everything you said. But the perplexing part is, wasn’t Eber’s D supposed to be simple? And then simplified further because the players were still confused? How dumb can the players be? All of them? Hard to believe. Something smells fishy about last year’s DC. And no it wasn’t just Micah’s departure, although that didn’t help.

It was (D) all of the above.

Loss of Parsons and Lawrence meant no pass rush. Injuries to LB’s and secondary coupled with a weak scheme .

It always begins with talent . Then scheme can optimize talent .

 

[gimmesix]

I agree with everything you said. But the perplexing part is, wasn’t Eber’s D supposed to be simple? And then simplified further because the players were still confused? How dumb can the players be? All of them? Hard to believe. Something smells fishy about last year’s DC. And no it wasn’t just Micah’s departure, although that didn’t help.

His scheme is simple for the defensive linemen because it's straightforward. There's not a lot of complex games that he plays up front. It's a lot more difficult on the back end, especially in coverage where he likes to be zone-heavy. Of course, the scheme that Parker comes from also was zone-heavy, but more complex in its approach to rushing the passer. Eberflus didn't like to blitz or even play the five-man front we used some after we acquired Quinnen (even though we had more success with it when it was used). He simply is a believer in your four down linemen executing up front to get the job done.

My problem with that is there are NFL players on both sides of the ball. If your four down linemen aren't talented enough, they can't win with sharp execution alone. You have to adjust to take advantage of what they do well and cover for what they do poorly. Eberflus proved to be very poor at that.

To not give him blame that he doesn't deserve, he was in a no-win situation here. Whatever he did wasn't going to make the talent better. However, I would be more forgiving toward him if he'd thrown everything and the kitchen sink at the problem instead of just sticking to what he does and hoping it got better.

 

[BlindFaith]

It was (D) all of the above.

Loss of Parsons and Lawrence meant no pass rush. Injuries to LB’s and secondary coupled with a weak scheme .

It always begins with takent . Then scheme can optimize talent .

Not retaining Lewis and Diggs giving up on football killed us as well.

That and horrible safeties and LBs.

And a D Coordinator that refused to adjust and seemed like a complete DBag.

 

[Stash]

I agree with everything you said. But the perplexing part is, wasn’t Eber’s D supposed to be simple? And then simplified further because the players were still confused? How dumb can the players be? All of them? Hard to believe. Something smells fishy about last year’s DC. And no it wasn’t just Micah’s departure, although that didn’t help.

I think it was a perfect storm of incompetence.

Eberflus was an awful head coach with an outdated scheme who brought in a bad staff and bad players.

 

[Diehardblues]

Not retaining Lewis and Diggs giving up on football killed us as well.

That and horrible safeties and LBs.

And a D Coordinator that refused to adjust and seemed like a complete DBag.

10-4.. I forgot about losing Lewis too.

No pass rush with hobbled or backup no name secondary was a recipe for disaster. And coaching didn’t help.

 

[Stash]

I have low expectations for Williams. He's had multiple different coaches and still lacks much success. We've been waiting for him to arrive since 2022 and he has always left us wanting.

I thought 4.5 sacks wasn’t bad for a young, part-time player.

It’s definitely do-or-die time in Dallas this year.

Much of my faith comes from Parker and his staff.

 

[gimmesix]

Good catch on Wilson. Never showed up in games to the point I thought he was out more than just 2 games.

Bland though, just because he only missed 5 games doesnt mean it wasnt affecting his play for more.

And sure, if you want to blame Eberflus for all the horrendous acquisitions on defense, then ok? Either way, they were still horrendous.

And yes, they will improve by leaps and bounds. Mostly because they will be new players or players being healthy. With a healthy does of CP and some willingness to actually be creative and adjust game to game.

I still like to use Quinn as an example on this. Quinn openly recruited Bobby Wagner to come here, however, this front office wasn't going to do what was necessary to make that happen. So Quinn had to settle for us re-signing LVE instead.

I think Eberflus had a say in the players that we brought in, which is why we ended up with players like Sanborn, but while he may have preferred a top-of-the-line proven player, he had to settle for what the front office was willing to pay for. Elam and Murray were brought in because they didn't cost us much (pickwise), which is why I think we ended up with Winters this year, because he cost us a fifth while other linebacker options were too pricey for our front office.

IMO, it's coaches settling for what they can get, not what they want. Now, how much they are involved in sorting through what they can get and picking those players, I can't say.

 

[Stash]

Ok the secondary injuries that you are unaware of in secondary were Diggs, Bland and Hooker. Now you can dissect each one and how many they played or missed. You continue to try and dissect each sentence separately but cumulatively are missing the bigger context of point.

Bland missed 5 games, same for Hooker.

If you want to use that as your excuse for a defense that sucked for 17 games, you do that.

Again we won’t be able to compare apples to apples since the same lineup won’t be in force including those out for multiple games.

So you’ll never be able to admit the truth?

Again I’m not defending Eberflus was a mess but loss and lack of talent was critical. I’d hope Williams will be more effective with more talent around him and a better scheme . And we can’t discount how trading Parsons a week before season derailed the defense .

Yes. I can’t discount how the loss of Parsons affected everything either. I don’t mean to minimize his loss.

And I agree scheme optimizes talent . But you must have the talent . And healthy .

Again, I’m not suggesting it was all one thing and not another. It was a combination of factors that created a totally inept defense.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

Not sure why we wouldn’t welcome a proven edge rusher ?

If they need a guy like that, they usually look for them after camp or after rosters start getting cut down. They got Clowney last year off his couch so someone else is bound to be available.

Right now I think this team is rolling with EZ, Gary, Lawrence, Sam Williams, Wheat, and Liufau at OLB/DE. If any combo of the last three can't provide depth then they will look for another veteran.

 

[DarkVader33]

His scheme is simple for the defensive linemen because it's straightforward. There's not a lot of complex games that he plays up front. It's a lot more difficult on the back end, especially in coverage where he likes to be zone-heavy. Of course, the scheme that Parker comes from also was zone-heavy, but more complex in its approach to rushing the passer. Eberflus didn't like to blitz or even play the five-man front we used some after we acquired Quinnen (even though we had more success with it when it was used). He simply is a believer in your four down linemen executing up front to get the job done.

My problem with that is there are NFL players on both sides of the ball. If your four down linemen aren't talented enough, they can't win with sharp execution alone. You have to adjust to take advantage of what they do well and cover for what they do poorly. Eberflus proved to be very poor at that.

To not give him blame that he doesn't deserve, he was in a no-win situation here. Whatever he did wasn't going to make the talent better. However, I would be more forgiving toward him if he'd thrown everything and the kitchen sink at the problem instead of just sticking to what he does and hoping it got better.

That’s always been my sticking point with him. We weren’t completely devoid of talent but pretty close. But I can never forgive him for not trying everything possible or almost anything at all. And if he did and failed, maybe he could’ve gotten a pass.

 

[gimmesix]

I thought 4.5 sacks wasn’t bad for a young, part-time player.

It’s definitely do-or-die time in Dallas this year.

Much of my faith comes from Parker and his staff.

I have no faith in Williams. As Parcells would say, he is what he is until he proves otherwise.

I think great coaching on this level can make a player slightly better. I think scheme can make a player slightly better. But this is a game that mostly comes down to talent and Williams hasn't shown enough. I would have used his roster spot on a player who has. Of course, that player also would have cost us more.

 

[Diehardblues]

Bland missed 5 games, same for Hooker.

If you want to use that as your excuse for a defense that sucked for 17 games, you do that.


So you’ll never be able to admit the truth?


Yes. I can’t discount how the loss of Parsons affected everything either. I don’t mean to minimize his loss.


Again, I’m not suggesting it was all one thing and not another. It was a combination of factors that created a totally inept defense.

No, I’m saying it was a contributing factor along with the other contributing factors of injured or loss talent. We agree on that.

Think the bigger picture instead of dissecting individual aspects. It was an overall clusterfruk with loss of talent , injuries and poor scheme.

I just don’t place scheme as biggest factor. If we’d had Parsons and everyone else healthy then was still as bad then perhaps I would have placed scheme top of the list.

 

[gimmesix]

That’s always been my sticking point with him. We weren’t completely devoid of talent but pretty close. But I can never forgive him for not trying everything possible or almost anything at all. And if he did and failed, maybe he could’ve gotten a pass.

Honestly, if he had at least stuck with the five-man front more, I would cut him a little slack. Using Quinnen, Clark and Odighizuwa up front together had shown some promise, but he refused to use it much.

 

[Rockport]

Despite the defensive additions, the Cowboys’ pass rush is an area needing reinforcement, especially at EDGE. Veterans like Joey Bosa, Von Miller, Cameron Jordan, and Kyle Van Noy remain available and could be signed closer to training camp. Such a move would align with new defensive coordinator Christian Parker’s rotational scheme and could raise the unit’s ceiling.

Veteran EDGE players available for Cowboys

Joey Bosa had 5.0 sacks, nine tackles for loss, 16 QB hits, and five forced fumbles last year

Von Miller recorded 9.0 sacks and 15 QB hits despite playing just 37% of defensive snaps

Cameron Jordan posted 10.5 sacks, 15 tackles for loss, and 15 QB hits on 54% of snaps

Kyle Van Noy, two-time Super Bowl champ, remains motivated after a recent 2.0 sack season

It’s May 8th. The roster will be different in September then we can talk.

 

[BlindFaith]

I still like to use Quinn as an example on this. Quinn openly recruited Bobby Wagner to come here, however, this front office wasn't going to do what was necessary to make that happen. So Quinn had to settle for us re-signing LVE instead.

I think Eberflus had a say in the players that we brought in, which is why we ended up with players like Sanborn, but while he may have preferred a top-of-the-line proven player, he had to settle for what the front office was willing to pay for. Elam and Murray were brought in because they didn't cost us much (pickwise), which is why I think we ended up with Winters this year, because he cost us a fifth while other linebacker options were too pricey for our front office.

IMO, it's coaches settling for what they can get, not what they want. Now, how much they are involved in sorting through what they can get and picking those players, I can't say.

Absolutely. Jethro and son have been the single most influential pieces in us not doing squadoosh the last 30 years.

If the single biggest impact that CP brings to this team is the ability to get Jerry to buy into his rationale for talent/acquisition, then he is the team MVP already.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

I have no faith in Williams. As Parcells would say, he is what he is until he proves otherwise.

I think great coaching on this level can make a player slightly better. I think scheme can make a player slightly better. But this is a game that mostly comes down to talent and Williams hasn't shown enough. I would have used his roster spot on a player who has. Of course, that player also would have cost us more.

Sam Williams struggled with gap integrity as a "standard" DE. To be kind, I get the idea he does not have all that much football intelligence. He runs himself out of plays. The effort is there, the know-how is not.

I think if the Cowboys just use him on sure passing downs and tell him to just go get the QB, he can be really productive. Because all the physical traits are there.

 

[kumizi]

Id say the starters are a bigger concern than the depth.

 

[Diehardblues]

It’s May 8th. The roster will be different in September then we can talk.

Understood but this is afterall a forum with open discussion on the Cowboys. Just looking for possibilities to upgrade team.
Thanks for your comment .

 

[Diehardblues]

Absolutely. Jethro and son have been the single most influential pieces in us not doing squadoosh the last 30 years.

If the single biggest impact that CP brings to this team is the ability to get Jerry to buy into his rationale for talent/acquisition, then he is the team MVP already.

I agree. But it must work or First sign it’s not Jethro will meddle.