Paying Amari Cooper

Don't forget to remember:

1. Dak is trash without a great wr like Amari

2. Amari is trash.
 
CouchCoach said:
All the receiver can do is get open, and we had two say they were getting open last season before Cooper joined the team.

One thing for sure, the QB has the best WR corps he's had so the excuses about that part will not be available. Going to come down to the QB and/or the OC.

And being a coach you know, the coach gets blamed too much for the lack of execution. We need to ask ourselves "why didn't that play work? Bad call or execution" before we start blasting anyone.

While I wasn't a Linehan fan, I do think he caught too much heat for the lack of execution. Young Kellen may catch more than he did.
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Being predictable as we were with Linehan, Dak was behind the eight ball. Defenses jumped on him because they knew what was coming. Moore needs to keep defenses on their toes to give Dak a chance to deliver consistently.
 
erod said:
I hate statistical arguments because they tell so little, especially in football. A player can have a major impact without major stats, and a player can have an insignificant impact despite compiling meaningless stats.

But often times, contract talks can be based on stats, so they carry dollar value in negotiations for sure.

That said, how much leverage does Amari Cooper have based on this? I realize they traded a first for him so they have to sign him, but does he really deserve to be paid among the elite receivers?

After Oakland wanted him gone, these are his totals in in his 9 games with Dallas last year:

Game 1: 5 for 58 yards, 1 TD
Game 2: 6 for 75 yards
Game 3: 3 for 36 yards
Game 4: 8 for 180 yards, 2 TD
Game 5: 8 for 76 yards
Game 6: 10 for 217 yards, 3 TD
Game 7: 4 for 32 yards
Game 8: 4 for 20 yards
Game 9: 5 for 31 yards

So in 9 games, he managed less than 58 yards receiving in 5 of the them.

In fact, in his previous 33 games before coming to Dallas, Cooper totaled less than 66 yards in 26 of 33 games with only 13 touchdowns. Not exactly Julio, Hopkins, or Brown numbers.

I love his demeanor (so nice to finally not have a diva #1 receiver in Dallas), and I love his route running even more. Dallas is in deep doo-doo without him.

But what do you pay a guy based on that lack of consistent statistical production in the market place?
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I think I’m fine with the variance in Coop’s production. He may have a few more down games than the typical WR1. But his ups are way up. He was the difference maker in two huge divisional wins last year. How players can you say that about league-wide?
 
erod said:
I hate statistical arguments because they tell so little, especially in football. A player can have a major impact without major stats, and a player can have an insignificant impact despite compiling meaningless stats.

But often times, contract talks can be based on stats, so they carry dollar value in negotiations for sure.

That said, how much leverage does Amari Cooper have based on this? I realize they traded a first for him so they have to sign him, but does he really deserve to be paid among the elite receivers?

After Oakland wanted him gone, these are his totals in in his 9 games with Dallas last year:

Game 1: 5 for 58 yards, 1 TD
Game 2: 6 for 75 yards
Game 3: 3 for 36 yards
Game 4: 8 for 180 yards, 2 TD
Game 5: 8 for 76 yards
Game 6: 10 for 217 yards, 3 TD
Game 7: 4 for 32 yards
Game 8: 4 for 20 yards
Game 9: 5 for 31 yards

So in 9 games, he managed less than 58 yards receiving in 5 of the them.

In fact, in his previous 33 games before coming to Dallas, Cooper totaled less than 66 yards in 26 of 33 games with only 13 touchdowns. Not exactly Julio, Hopkins, or Brown numbers.

I love his demeanor (so nice to finally not have a diva #1 receiver in Dallas), and I love his route running even more. Dallas is in deep doo-doo without him.

But what do you pay a guy based on that lack of consistent statistical production in the market place?
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The reason they aren't Julio, Hopkins or Brown numbers is because Amari doesn't get nearly the same amount of targets.

If you extrapolate his 9 games with the cowboys for a full season, he'd have 135 targets, 94 receptions, 1289 yards & 11 touchdowns. All the others you mentioned had at least 160 targets last year.
The 135 targets would have him at 16th most targets (includes 3 TEs above him). I believe the leverage he has is that if he were to have more targets, the numbers would reflect what the top wrs are producing.

Heck, give him 170 targets, with his 69.7% catch rate and 13.68 Y/R, he'd have 118 receptions and over 1,600 yards. (catch rate and 13.68 y/r are from 2018 Cowboys games only)
Second in the league in receiving yards. These are hypotheticals, but Amari's agent would be wise to bring these numbers to the table.
 
Ranching said:
Being predictable as we were with Linehan, Dak was behind the eight ball. Defenses jumped on him because they knew what was coming. Moore needs to keep defenses on their toes to give Dak a chance to deliver consistently.
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When he had Dan Mullen as his HC, he had Prescott move....a lot. Miss St was a D team and Prescott didn't have many weapons and came on the scene with his legs but he turned out to be pretty good moving to his right. So, Auburn, Bama and LSU tried to make him move to his left.

I don't think posters realize that when Dak got on the Heisman list, he had fewer weapons than any other QB on that list. He wasn't executing Mullen's offense as much as creating it. And I believe one of the reasons Dak did so well as a rookie was the fact he played in the SEC West against the best D's and pass rushers in the game. He'd already had his trial by fire.
 
cowboygo said:
The reason they aren't Julio, Hopkins or Brown numbers is because Amari doesn't get nearly the same amount of targets.

If you extrapolate his 9 games with the cowboys for a full season, he'd have 135 targets, 94 receptions, 1289 yards & 11 touchdowns. All the others you mentioned had at least 160 targets last year.
The 135 targets would have him at 16th most targets (includes 3 TEs above him). I believe the leverage he has is that if he were to have more targets, the numbers would reflect what the top wrs are producing.

Heck, give him 170 targets, with his 69.7% catch rate and 13.68 Y/R, he'd have 118 receptions and over 1,600 yards. (catch rate and 13.68 y/r are from 2018 Cowboys games only)
Second in the league in receiving yards. These are hypotheticals, but Amari's agent would be wise to bring these numbers to the table.
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It's the way the Cowboys offence treats WR1. It was the same with Dez. We like to spread the ball around and use WR1 (a lot of the time) as a decoy. Maybe this will change a bit with Moore.
 
Denim Chicken said:
It's the way the Cowboys offence treats WR1. It was the same with Dez. We like to spread the ball around and use WR1 (a lot of the time) as a decoy. Maybe this will change a bit with Moore.
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Agree. Which shows Dez's 2014 year was highly productive. He had 136 targets, 88 receptions, 1,320 yards, 16 touchdowns. Of course Romo was throwing the ball. But the amount of targets are nearly the same as Amari's 2018 extrapolated season.
 
stasheroo said:
Exactly right.

And we lost all negotiating leverage when we gave up a first round pick for him.

This shouldn't be news to anyone that getting a new deal done would be difficult. Heck, why do you think the Raiders made him available in the first place?
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Well, these same Raiders gave up Mack and the Bears worked out a deal in no time. I wouldn't lay it all on Cooper.
 
Judging a WR simply by basic raw stats is a poor way to judge them. The best way to judge a WR is how the DCs treat them every week. Are they being left alone on an island? Do they dedicate their best CB to them? Do they roll coverage their way?

It's pretty obvious what happens when a DC risks it and treats Coop like a normal WR, he can totally take over a game. On the other hand, if they focus on him, it opens up the other guys and can even help open up the run game. This is what a WR #1 does. That's why Dak got better, even when he wasnt throwing to Coop. DCs recognize what kind of WR that Coop is.

Also, keep in mind that Dak is not a "gunslinger" He isnt going to force the ball into double coverage just because it's Coop. I actually think that's a very good thing when a team has a good D and can run the ball. No reason to force things. When a DC decides to take away your WR1, it's up to the OC to gameplan him open and we all know Linehan was not that guy.

In summary, let's hope and pray that we get Cooper signed and he is with us for the next five years.
 
like it or not, Amari needs to be paid NOW. Not doing that is bad for the team. He and Dak really developed a chemistry. DAK AND AMARI must get done way before Zeke. Zeke is under contract for 2 more years, he can wait.
 
Jake said:
Well, these same Raiders gave up Mack and the Bears worked out a deal in no time. I wouldn't lay it all on Cooper.
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And the Bears blew away the established player contract numbers in doing so. It's pretty easy to get a deal done when you tell the guy he's going to be far and away the highest paid in the league, isn't it?

The Bears also had the luxury of not having a big money quarterback contract to pay as well.

I'm not trying to lay anything on Cooper, just giving some background of the situation.
 
Rayman70 said:
like it or not, Amari needs to be paid NOW. Not doing that is bad for the team. He and Dak really developed a chemistry. DAK AND AMARI must get done way before Zeke. Zeke is under contract for 2 more years, he can wait.
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Amari doesn't seem to want to start talking until Thomas and Julio sign. And he privately may want another look at Dak and Moore before he decides to sign here.
 
erod said:
Amari doesn't seem to want to start talking until Thomas and Julio sign. And he privately may want another look at Dak and Moore before he decides to sign here.
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More than any of the other players, I get the vibe from Cooper that he is in fact willing to take the risk of injury of it means getting an even better deal next year.
 
CouchCoach said:
Yep and the Saints deserve this, they've gotten rid of any challengers to him as the #1 and put themselves in this spot.
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The Cowboys are also to blame for their situation. They could have wrapper Cooper up before even Antonio or Odell signed their deals. He could be sitting at 16m a year right now and perfectly content. Now it’ll be a pleasant surprise to get him under 19.
 
Aerolithe_Lion said:
The Cowboys are also to blame for their situation. They could have wrapper Cooper up before even Antonio or Odell signed their deals. He could be sitting at 16m a year right now and perfectly content. Now it’ll be a pleasant surprise to get him under 19.
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There's no guarantee of that. It's very likely that Cooper and his agent weren't interested in making a deal at that point.
 
Ha.

Amari wasn't going to sign before Brown and Odell, he never needed to do that. He just turned 25 and is getting $14mill this season. His agent isn't stupid, like everyone else he told Amari the cap going up is getting everyone more $$. They weren't going to sign before Brown and Odell. Wasn't going to happen. They watched, saw a new floor, factored in cap going up + contracts next year, and here we are.

I'd be surprised if he got less than $20mill. That's $10mill cap hit year 1, and after year 3 we can release him and get like 10mill in cap space. Year 1 will be with Daks year 1 anyway, so even max deals they're "only" about a 25mill cap hit together. Meaning, $75mill to tender/sign Jaylon, do whatever with Byron, maybe Zeke if they do that. Who knows. Then the rest is getting rolled over and who even knows what the cap totals will be in 2021 with new structures in place. Probably be more than the usual increase, I imagine.

He's a legitimate #1, whatever he signs for will just be topped again the year after. The total number just for numbers sake is irrelevant. It's, "Do you want to keep him?" and "Does his cap number prevent you from doing anything you need to do?"

He's valuable to us, we're in a position to win, and it doesn't prevent us from doing anything we want to do. It's really that simple.
 
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