Per Jason Witten: The Giants are the most hated...

[bobtheflob]

I said this in another thread but I'll repeat it here.

I've hate the Commanders the most as an organization, I hate Eagles fans the most, and I hate the Giants current players the most. I despise Shockey, Strahan, Eli, Plaxico, Pierce, and Jacobs to name a few. And I still hate Tiki, but it seems like many of the Giants players share my opinion right now.

 

[CoCo]

Uhhh, no offense Jason, but Shockey is probably every bit as talented as you and might be every bit as productive as you in our offense.

Now demeanor, style, & class you have over him in spades.

But lets recognize our personal dislike for Shockey & the Giants doesn't mean he's not a great player, because he is.

 

[Skin]

Uhhh, no offense Jason, but Shockey is probably every bit as talented as you and might be every bit as productive as you in our offense.

Now demeanor, style, & class you have over him in spades.

But lets recognize our personal dislike for Shockey & the Giants doesn't mean he's not a great player, because he is.

Shockey is very good, but he's a little too glass-like for my taste. He takes himself out of the game a lot and always looks out of gas to me. He's productive, but I'd take Jason Witten over him any day of the week.

 

[theogt]

LOL!!! So much for ****-talking. Pierce is going to miss 1.5 games because of injuries suffered while playing the Cowboys.

Giants' Antonio Pierce Suffering From Mild Concussion; Sunday Status in Question

Dan BentonPosted Nov 15th 2007 7:07AM by Dan Benton
Filed under: NY Giants, NFC East, NFL Injuries, New York
Let the injuries begin!

Forgive me if I sound overly pessimistic here, but I am, after all, a New York Giants fan. And if you've been a fan of this team for the last three plus years, you can fully understand why I am prone to negativity when I hear about players missing practice.

Unfortunately, this week's practice kicked off with news that starting middle linebacker Antonio Pierce was going to sit out due to a mild concussion that was suffered in Sunday's loss to the Cowboys.

"Since Monday he's had headaches," Tom Coughlin said. "He feels pretty good, but we're going to hold him (out of practice) today."

And while that may seems minor on the surface, it appears significant enough to question his availability for this weekend's game in Detroit.

Also missing practice were Plaxico Burress (ankle) and Derrick Ward (ankle/groin). And although rookie wide receiver Steve Smith did finally practice, it was only on a limited basis.

 

[khiladi]

Uhhh, no offense Jason, but Shockey is probably every bit as talented as you and might be every bit as productive as you in our offense.

Uh, no....

But lets recognize our personal dislike for Shockey & the Giants doesn't mean he's not a great player, because he is.

Who isn't giving him due recognition?

 

[Skin]

Uhhh, no offense Jason, but Shockey is probably every bit as talented as you and might be every bit as productive as you in our offense.

Now demeanor, style, & class you have over him in spades.

But lets recognize our personal dislike for Shockey & the Giants doesn't mean he's not a great player, because he is.

Tuesday, June 12, 2007
Updated: July 5, 7:16 AM ET
Shockey failing to make deep impact

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By KC Joyner
ESPN Insider

This is the first of a series of articles covering the most overrated and underrated players in the NFL. The criteria I used was contrasting the player's 2006 metrics with his perceived performance level.
This week's list features overrated and underrated tight ends.


Overrated tight ends

Jeremy Shockey
Shockey was voted to the Pro Bowl last year, but the metrics indicate he didn't deserve the selection. Shockey ranked 23rd in yards per attempt among qualifying tight ends last year (5.6). He ranked last in medium pass YPA and 18th in short pass YPA.

Shockey is perceived to be an excellent downfield threat when lining up as a wide receiver, but that is also a mirage. He had a 4.7 YPA on passes thrown to him when he was flexed out, a total that placed him next to last in that category.

In a nutshell, Shockey's YPA figures place him more in the company of Randal Williams and Alex Smith, not Jason Witten and Alge Crumpler (the other two NFC Pro Bowl tight ends in 2006).

Randy McMichael
This is the second consecutive year I've identified McMichael as being overrated. His move to St. Louis has revealed that some people still believe he is one of the elite tight ends in the NFL. The metrics say otherwise.

McMichael's overall YPA (6.9) was adequate, ranking him 13th among tight ends last year. Unfortunately, he is a one-trick pony. Of the 92 passes thrown to him last season, 71 were short passes (1-10 yards). The reason McMichael wasn't thrown more vertical passes is his YPA on the 21 combined medium/deep/bomb passes last year was a meager 7.0 yards.

McMichael also had the lowest YPA and success percentage for a tight end when flexed out. He should do a fine job in St. Louis as a check-down target, but he is certainly no longer one of the best tight ends in the NFL.

Others
Dallas Clark: He is often described as a wide receiver in a tight end's body, but his YPA (6.3) indicates he is no wide receiver.
Kellen Winslow: He may have the skills to be a vertical receiver, but was used mostly as a check-down target last year, as evidenced by his 92 short pass attempts.
Ben Watson: Had the fifth-lowest success percentage among tight ends in 2006.


Underrated tight ends

Chris Cooley
Cooley is already considered by many to be one of the top 10 tight ends in the NFL, but the metrics indicate he deserves even more praise.
Cooley posted the fourth-best overall YPA among tight ends. He had the sixth-best medium pass YPA and the best short pass YPA. His YPA when flexed out (10.8) was easily the highest in the NFL. That he was able to put up these numbers, despite the struggles of the Commanders' quarterbacks last year, speaks volumes about his ability.

Desmond Clark
Last year, Rex Grossman claimed Clark was his go-to receiver, and the metrics show why. He ranked third in YPA, finishing ahead of players such as Cooley and Jason Witten. Clark's numbers were not skewed by a smaller number of attempts:


In addition to his impressive overall numbers, Clark also ranked fourth in both medium and deep pass YPA. If he puts up similar numbers in 2007, he should receive a lot of votes for the Pro Bowl.

Others
Owen Daniels: Ranked eighth in overall YPA (7.7 yards), despite playing in the vertically challenged Houston offense.
Heath Miller: Miller had the seventh-best YPA (7.9), and the best medium pass YPA (14.7) of any tight end last year.
Alex Smith: Smith's success percentage (75.5.) and medium pass YPA (13.5) both ranked second in the league.

KC Joyner, aka The Football Scientist, is a regular contributor to ESPN Insider. His latest release ("Scientific Football 2007") is available for a special preorder price at his Web site.

 

[hairic]

Uhhh, no offense Jason, but Shockey is probably every bit as talented as you and might be every bit as productive as you in our offense.

Now demeanor, style, & class you have over him in spades.

But lets recognize our personal dislike for Shockey & the Giants doesn't mean he's not a great player, because he is.

That's just his remaining 1st round and rookie season hype. He's been the 3rd best TE in the East the past couple years.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te2006.php
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te2005.php

Even if Shockey somehow manages to live up to his potential as a receiving TE, I'd still want Witten and Cooley for their blocking ability.

 

[aikemirv]

Uhhh, no offense Jason, but Shockey is probably every bit as talented as you and might be every bit as productive as you in our offense.

Now demeanor, style, & class you have over him in spades.

But lets recognize our personal dislike for Shockey & the Giants doesn't mean he's not a great player, because he is.

The only thing Shockey has over Witten is speed. Other than that Witten is easily the better player.

 

[YosemiteSam]

The only thing Shockey has over Witten is speed. Other than that Witten is easily the better player.

The main thing Witten has over Shockey is a QB that can get him the ball down the field.

 

[mmohican29]

I can't stand the Giants either, but:

I'd consider Shockey a changed man at this point. He was respectful of the Boys in both pre and post game comments and on the field displayed great sportsmanship giving Ware his helmet back that was bounding around the goal line.

In the first game, James and he were jawing just a touch and Shockey's helmet got popped off and instead of retaliating said something to the extent of "C'mon Bradie, let's just play football".

I'm a big U of Miami fan, so I watch him very carefully when I watch the Giants play and he's turned the corner on that nonsense from the past... I have yet to see him have a bad moment this season. He's much more the person he was coming out of college... fiery, but non-descript.

He's far from being the punk that called Parcells gay and was nailing Tara Reid. I think he's a good player, not better than Witten, but a top tier TE in the league and has matured greatly IMO.

 

[hairic]

The main thing Witten has over Shockey is a QB that can get him the ball down the field.

So that would mean Vinny Testaverde and Drew Bledsoe are better than Eli Manning? :laugh2:

 

[Pats Fan]

As a Pats Fan, I kind of like Shockey. The few games I have seen him in, he played flat out. Would love to see him in a Pats uniform. I think Eli is way overrated. Big time. The few games I saw him in did not impress me at all. I remember when he came into the league everyone was saying how he was better than Peyton -- goes to show you what these fools know.

The QB is the top guy. Need I say to you Romo. Don't think so. Do you need to say to me Brady? Don't think so.

This guy Cambell (think I got that right) for the Commanders just flat out stinks. I read an article and agreed, there are just so few good QB's out there. McNabb, I just cannot figure this guy out. I just think he really does not care that much and does not condition himself -- keys to winning. But he had so much talent.

As far as not liking these teams, don't quite understand it.

AFC East, I like the Bills, the Phins never really brought me anguish, I used to like the Jets until they got that scumbag Mangini. Pennington, well I feel bad for the guy.

The only team I really disliked was the Steelers. But when Cowher left, I kind of changed my mind. I like Big Ben. He is no Tom Brady, but he is a good QB and leads his team. Cowher , every time I see him brings a boil.

So why do you waste your time on not liking teams that will not challenge or come near you in the playoffs. So many other things to worry about in life.

 

[theogt]

As a Pats Fan, I kind of like Shockey. The few games I have seen him in, he played flat out. Would love to see him in a Pats uniform. I think Eli is way overrated. Big time. The few games I saw him in did not impress me at all. I remember when he came into the league everyone was saying how he was better than Peyton -- goes to show you what these fools know.

The QB is the top guy. Need I say to you Romo. Don't think so. Do you need to say to me Brady? Don't think so.

This guy Cambell (think I got that right) for the Commanders just flat out stinks. I read an article and agreed, there are just so few good QB's out there. McNabb, I just cannot figure this guy out. I just think he really does not care that much and does not condition himself -- keys to winning. But he had so much talent.

As far as not liking these teams, don't quite understand it.

AFC East, I like the Bills, the Phins never really brought me anguish, I used to like the Jets until they got that scumbag Mangini. Pennington, well I feel bad for the guy.

The only team I really disliked was the Steelers. But when Cowher left, I kind of changed my mind. I like Big Ben. He is no Tom Brady, but he is a good QB and leads his team. Cowher , every time I see him brings a boil.

So why do you waste your time on not liking teams that will not challenge or come near you in the playoffs. So many other things to worry about in life.

No one cares.

 

[Pats Fan]

No one cares.

About what?

 

[sacase]

As a Pats Fan, I kind of like Shockey. The few games I have seen him in, he played flat out. Would love to see him in a Pats uniform. I think Eli is way overrated. Big time. The few games I saw him in did not impress me at all. I remember when he came into the league everyone was saying how he was better than Peyton -- goes to show you what these fools know.

The QB is the top guy. Need I say to you Romo. Don't think so. Do you need to say to me Brady? Don't think so.

This guy Cambell (think I got that right) for the Commanders just flat out stinks. I read an article and agreed, there are just so few good QB's out there. McNabb, I just cannot figure this guy out. I just think he really does not care that much and does not condition himself -- keys to winning. But he had so much talent.

As far as not liking these teams, don't quite understand it.

AFC East, I like the Bills, the Phins never really brought me anguish, I used to like the Jets until they got that scumbag Mangini. Pennington, well I feel bad for the guy.

The only team I really disliked was the Steelers. But when Cowher left, I kind of changed my mind. I like Big Ben. He is no Tom Brady, but he is a good QB and leads his team. Cowher , every time I see him brings a boil.

So why do you waste your time on not liking teams that will not challenge or come near you in the playoffs. So many other things to worry about in life.

So you hate the snitch but like the cheater?

 

[Pats Fan]

So you hate the snitch but like the cheater?

One thing I have learned in life. People love sound bites.

Perhaps you should know a little more about Mangini.

BB brought him in, nurtured him, and like any Patriot coach everyone wanted him. BB asked Mangini to not go to the Jets (don't have the time to explain, but legit), any other team, and he would support him and get him a job. Mangini stuck his nose up, and took the Jets job. Before he left, he stole everything but the kitchen sink from the Pats office including a notebook with all of the plays (offensive and defensive plays) on it. He then started to raid the Patriot staff looking for anyone and everyone to go -- didn't do much. Then played head games.

After going to the Jets, when there was a contract dispute with Branch, Mangini went after him when the Pats were negotiating with Branch. He was charged with pandering -- did not go though because the Pats had already made a deal with Seattle.

Whether you like BB or not, Mangini is a low life.

Me, I love BB.

 

[deepBLUE]

As a Pats Fan, I kind of like Shockey. The few games I have seen him in, he played flat out. Would love to see him in a Pats uniform. I think Eli is way overrated. Big time. The few games I saw him in did not impress me at all. I remember when he came into the league everyone was saying how he was better than Peyton -- goes to show you what these fools know.

The QB is the top guy. Need I say to you Romo. Don't think so. Do you need to say to me Brady? Don't think so.

This guy Cambell (think I got that right) for the Commanders just flat out stinks. I read an article and agreed, there are just so few good QB's out there. McNabb, I just cannot figure this guy out. I just think he really does not care that much and does not condition himself -- keys to winning. But he had so much talent.

As far as not liking these teams, don't quite understand it.

AFC East, I like the Bills, the Phins never really brought me anguish, I used to like the Jets until they got that scumbag Mangini. Pennington, well I feel bad for the guy.

The only team I really disliked was the Steelers. But when Cowher left, I kind of changed my mind. I like Big Ben. He is no Tom Brady, but he is a good QB and leads his team. Cowher , every time I see him brings a boil.

So why do you waste your time on not liking teams that will not challenge or come near you in the playoffs. So many other things to worry about in life.

i detest the steelers......i'd love to beat 'em in a super bowl, again.....

i'm really beginning to detest the giants. they constantly air their dirty laundry out (ref. last year), and they have really become a trash-talking, dirty team. brandon jacobs flaps his mouth constantly; and tends to make a fool of himself. although, i will admit.......crayton needs to tone it down, as well.......

 

[Chocolate Lab]

LOL!!! So much for ****-talking. Pierce is going to miss 1.5 games because of injuries suffered while playing the Cowboys.

Giants' Antonio Pierce Suffering From Mild Concussion; Sunday Status in Question

I wonder if it was Hoyte or MB3 who did it like they did to Zach Thomas... :laugh2:

And Pats fan, nobody cares about your Mangini whining. In fact, I like the guy more now. Anyone that ignores the Almighty Belichick (like Brad Childress, how dare he claim a Pats waivee) is okay with me.

I mean, how dare he try to advance his career and help out his family.

Maybe you remember a little note about resigning as H.C. of the N.Y.J.

 

[superpunk]

Maybe you remember a little note about resigning as H.C. of the N.Y.J.

 

[Pats Fan]

I wonder if it was Hoyte or MB3 who did it like they did to Zach Thomas... :laugh2:

And Pats fan, nobody cares about your Mangini whining. In fact, I like the guy more now. Anyone that ignores the Almighty Belichick (like Brad Childress, how dare he claim a Pats waivee) is okay with me.

I mean, how dare he try to advance his career and help out his family.

Maybe you remember a little note about resigning as H.C. of the N.Y.J.

Perhaps you need to spend a little more time in researching the situation. Takes time, and most people prefer not to do that. No matter, you will say what YOU want to say regardless. BB was going to GET a job for Mangini, and would have helped him. Mangini is the ultimate low life.

Trust me, after the Jets job, Mangini will be unemployed in football. And if he keeps up his GREAT coaching, it will not be long. And no one in New England will shed a tear.

Oh, and BB is a New Englander. To the core, kind of like me.

And if you love Mangini so much, maybe he could be your next coach. You might want to think on that one.