Pet Peeve of Mine, mis-called "reverses"

[SaltwaterServr]

One of the ESPN.com mediots brings this up every so often, and it happened to be one of my pet peeves long before I ever read an article on it. Here's the play:

A QB takes the snap, does his drop and in comes a receiver streaking behind the line of scrimmage to take the hand off...

"IT'S A REVERSE!!!" scream the mediots behind the mike.

No you morons, it's an end around. The ball never changed direction of travel, but every single solitary time the QB hands off the ball to some one other than a full back or half back they'll scream "IT'S A REVERSE!!!"

No, it's just an end around and I've heard too many people in bars and in front of the TV scream the same.

If the QB hands off to a WR and then the WR hands off to another player coming the other direction THEN IT IS A REVERSE AS THE BALL HAS CHANGED DIRECTION OF TRAVEL.

If Romo hands off to Felix who runs a sweep at right tackle and then hands off to Miles coming the opposite direction its a reverse.

What really irks me is when the QB drops back, fakes the hand off to one WR, then hands off to another WR coming the other way. The mediots will screw this all kinds of up, left, right, and backwards.

The play is a fake handoff, end around. It's not a fake reverse, it isn't a double fake reverse, and it isn't a double reverse. The ball is simply handed off to a end player.

/ rant. :bang2:

 

[jackrussell]

Life is short...let it go.

 

[Nav22]

That mistake has annoyed me for years... glad someone else has noticed.

One of my pet peeves are common game strategy mistakes. I was talking to a buddy about this one recently...

Say you're down 15 points, midway through the 4th quarter. Obviously, you need two TDs, and you'll need to convert a 2 point conversion on one of the TDs.

You score a TD, so you're now down by 9.

Do you go for the 2 now, or do you kick the PAT to bring yourself within 8?

Most coaches unfathomably kick the PAT to make it an 8 point game? WHY???

If you kick the PAT, you're down 8, and you spend the rest of the game NOT KNOWING if you need 1 score (if the 2PC on your NEXT TD succeeds) or 2 scores (if the 2PC on your NEXT TD fails).

If you go for 2 now, you might succeed, you might fail... but at least you KNOW what you'll need for the rest of the game.

If you fail on the 2PC and the deficit stays at 9, and there's 4 minutes left in the game, you can now operate as though you need 2 scores to win the game. That might mean an onside kick, even though you have 2 timeouts remaining.

But if you kick the PAT with 4 minutes left to bring the deficit to 8, you're now operating as though you need 1 TD to tie the game. So with 4 minutes left and 2 timeouts, you're kicking deep, with no idea if you're going to need 1 score or 2. Those 2PCs are roughly a 50/50 proposition, after all.

And of course, the odds of converting the 2PC are the same no matter when it is attempted.

It's something I've never understood and I can't believe these coaches haven't been ripped for the logical flaw in their strategy.

 

[daschoo]

That mistake has annoyed me for years... glad someone else has noticed.

One of my pet peeves are common game strategy mistakes. I was talking to a buddy about this one recently...

Say you're down 15 points, midway through the 4th quarter. Obviously, you need two TDs, and you'll need to convert a 2 point conversion on one of the TDs.

You score a TD, so you're now down by 9.

Do you go for the 2 now, or do you kick the PAT to bring yourself within 8?

Most coaches unfathomably kick the PAT to make it an 8 point game? WHY???

If you kick the PAT, you're down 8, and you spend the rest of the game NOT KNOWING if you need 1 score (if the 2PC on your NEXT TD succeeds) or 2 scores (if the 2PC on your NEXT TD fails).

If you go for 2 now, you might succeed, you might fail... but at least you KNOW what you'll need for the rest of the game. If you fail, and there's 5 minutes left in the game, you can now operate under the situation that you need 2 scores to win the game. And of course, the odds of converting the 2PC are the same no matter when it is attempted.

It's something I've never understood and I can't believe these coaches haven't been ripped for the logical flaw in their strategy.

if anything you're more likely to succeed going for two first as you could run a fake and teams are likely to expect you to be going for one whereas if you wait and do get the second TD everyone will know you're going for the two

 

[firehawk350]

I have an idea. Most coaches would expect the kick as that's what most people would do. So you trot out your FG unit (back-up QB plays the holder). Get into FG formation and with 10 seconds left to go, call the audible and get into a goal line with one of your TEs splitting out wide and the FG kicker going wide the other direction. As the other team scrambles to get into a more natural defensive alignment, hike it and run the sneak up the middle. It would work once.

 

[streetcredit]

Say you're down 15 points, midway through the 4th quarter. Obviously, you need two TDs, and you'll need to convert a 2 point conversion on one of the TDs.

You score a TD, so you're now down by 9.

Do you go for the 2 now, or do you kick the PAT to bring yourself within 8?

Most coaches unfathomably kick the PAT to make it an 8 point game? WHY???

It's done so that the opposition is almost guaranteed to be playing the rest of the game under pressure.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Mute the TV next time. You will live longer.

 

[EGTuna]

Tuesday Morning QB at ESPN.com has pointed out the reverse/end around mistake since 2002.

 

[Baileyneverfailey]

I don't know what you have against a reverse. :laugh2:

I mean, you're right, but I certainly hope you can find something a little more meaningful to get upset about.

 

[jobberone]

Off with their heads.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Speaking of, I really want to see Red get more creative this year. Crayton can throw it, so can Stanback. I don't mean get in the wildcat but at least keep run the occassional gadget play.

Even mr. conservative BP loved to use the flea flicker against aggressive defenses with young safeties.

 

[peplaw06]

That mistake has annoyed me for years... glad someone else has noticed.

One of my pet peeves are common game strategy mistakes. I was talking to a buddy about this one recently...

Say you're down 15 points, midway through the 4th quarter. Obviously, you need two TDs, and you'll need to convert a 2 point conversion on one of the TDs.

You score a TD, so you're now down by 9.

Do you go for the 2 now, or do you kick the PAT to bring yourself within 8?

Most coaches unfathomably kick the PAT to make it an 8 point game? WHY???

If you kick the PAT, you're down 8, and you spend the rest of the game NOT KNOWING if you need 1 score (if the 2PC on your NEXT TD succeeds) or 2 scores (if the 2PC on your NEXT TD fails).

If you go for 2 now, you might succeed, you might fail... but at least you KNOW what you'll need for the rest of the game.

If you fail on the 2PC and the deficit stays at 9, and there's 4 minutes left in the game, you can now operate as though you need 2 scores to win the game. That might mean an onside kick, even though you have 2 timeouts remaining.

But if you kick the PAT with 4 minutes left to bring the deficit to 8, you're now operating as though you need 1 TD to tie the game. So with 4 minutes left and 2 timeouts, you're kicking deep, with no idea if you're going to need 1 score or 2. Those 2PCs are roughly a 50/50 proposition, after all.

And of course, the odds of converting the 2PC are the same no matter when it is attempted.

It's something I've never understood and I can't believe these coaches haven't been ripped for the logical flaw in their strategy.

I think if you don't get the 1st 2PC, it forces you to kick an onside kick the next kickoff. If you don't get that, not only do you give them the ball back up 2 scores, you give them great field position, and they can put the game away.

The onside kick is much less likely than getting a 2PC. If you are only down one score, you can kick away play defense and try to get your own field position and take your chances the next TD. It also increases the likelihood of a defensive choke when there's more pressure.

 

[joseephuss]

If the QB hands off to a WR and then the WR hands off to another player coming the other direction THEN IT IS A REVERSE AS THE BALL HAS CHANGED DIRECTION OF TRAVEL.

I hear most announcers call that a double reverse, which as you have pointed out is incorrect.

 

[lurkercowboy]

How about the "hook and lateral" being called "hook and ladder?'

 

[THUMPER]

One of the ESPN.com mediots brings this up every so often, and it happened to be one of my pet peeves long before I ever read an article on it. Here's the play:

A QB takes the snap, does his drop and in comes a receiver streaking behind the line of scrimmage to take the hand off...

"IT'S A REVERSE!!!" scream the mediots behind the mike.

No you morons, it's an end around. The ball never changed direction of travel, but every single solitary time the QB hands off the ball to some one other than a full back or half back they'll scream "IT'S A REVERSE!!!"

No, it's just an end around and I've heard too many people in bars and in front of the TV scream the same.

If the QB hands off to a WR and then the WR hands off to another player coming the other direction THEN IT IS A REVERSE AS THE BALL HAS CHANGED DIRECTION OF TRAVEL.

If Romo hands off to Felix who runs a sweep at right tackle and then hands off to Miles coming the opposite direction its a reverse.

What really irks me is when the QB drops back, fakes the hand off to one WR, then hands off to another WR coming the other way. The mediots will screw this all kinds of up, left, right, and backwards.

The play is a fake handoff, end around. It's not a fake reverse, it isn't a double fake reverse, and it isn't a double reverse. The ball is simply handed off to a end player.

/ rant. :bang2:

The quote that jumped to mind was from Blazing Saddles after Sherriff Bart is dissed by the old lady and Jim (Gene Wilder) consoles him:

What did you expect? "Welcome, sonny"? "Make yourself at home"? "Marry my daughter"? You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.

 

[WarDaddy]

Tuesday Morning QB at ESPN.com has pointed out the reverse/end around mistake since 2002.

Thank you.

If you're gonna be pissed enough about something to start a thread about it, at least be original.

And it wasn't even as witty as the TMQ complaint...

 

[Idgit]

Speaking of, I really want to see Red get more creative this year. Crayton can throw it, so can Stanback. I don't mean get in the wildcat but at least keep run the occassional gadget play.

Even mr. conservative BP loved to use the flea flicker against aggressive defenses with young safeties.

Parcels actually used a ton of gadget plays. He'd only use them on specific spots on the field, though. Inside the 50? Watch out!

I miss the old Gaily trick play where the TE would block, stumble, and roll into the end zone for an easy 6. Hopefully, Garrett will show a couple of wrinkles this season. If nothing else, we've got a *lot* of flexibility to design plays with this group of offensive skill players we've got.

 

[NorthTexan95]

My biggest complaint is when announcers say "the ground can't cause a fumble". Arrgh ... what stupidity.

 

[THUMPER]

My biggest complaint is when announcers say "the ground can't cause a fumble". Arrgh ... what stupidity.

I agree, of course the ground can cause a fumble. If a guy slips and falls and loses the ball then it is a fumble. As long as he is not down by contact then it is a live ball.

Mediots.

 

[CF74]

Are you watching re-runs on NFL Network?:laugh1: