PFF: Byron Jones best player on roster; 4th best safety in league; no better safety in coverage

[AbeBeta]

Like any stat, their grades need context and need to be used in coordination with the eye test. While they're not perfect, they're still clearly the best at what they do. There's simply not another service that grades every single snap and provides a meaningful metric for each position. I really like PPF, though I know it's just one metric and needs some context.

People gotta get off the "grades every snap" argument. The grading system is what is important. I'd rather have an outstanding grading system and see 25% of the snaps graded than a crap system applied to everything

 

[ConceptCoop]

Cowboys Zone: Nuh uh.

Cowboys Zone: "Well, I looked at this one stat I like and..."

 

[perrykemp]

Was it Jones guy (the TE) who caught two TD passes last night OR was that someone's else's coverage?

 

[ConceptCoop]

People gotta get off the "grades every snap" argument. The grading system is what is important. I'd rather have an outstanding grading system and see 25% of the snaps graded than a crap system applied to everything

That doesn't really make sense. The smaller the sample size, the less valuable the grading system. They have the best grading system available and apply it to every play. NFL teams use their advanced stats and grading system, btw.

 

[ConceptCoop]

Was it Jones guy (the TE) who caught two TD passes last night OR was that someone's else's coverage?

Jones. He was in as good a position as you could have asked him to be, though.

 

[bayeslife]

That doesn't really make sense. The smaller the sample size, the less valuable the grading system. They have the best grading system available and apply it to every play. NFL teams use their advanced stats and grading system, btw.

But their grading is also subjective. Anyone can do an eye test

 

[CATCH17]

Chasing a guy down on somebody else's busted coverage is as valuable as anything. Again, he saved a TD. Most guys don't run a 4.36; thus, most guys don't make that play.

He's not playing FS in most passing situations, so it's not fair to be looking for him to make plays from that spot, when he's not actually playing it.

I get it; you're like most fans and are judging his play on INTs. That's fine and I doubt you'll change your mind. But at least understand that he's only playing FS in the base defense. Meaning, he's not getting a lot of chances to make the plays you're looking for him to make. And last year, he played even less FS than he is this year.

You're saying "he's played X games at FS and doesn't have a pick." But that's not accurate. He's probably only played 6 games worth of pure FS to this point, in terms of snaps.

I judge our whole defense on takeaways because they suck at everything else.

Ken Hamlin got praise around here too.


I've acknowledged all through this thread that he is a good football player. Go back and read if you don't believe me.

I just said that I do want big impactful game changing plays.

The NFL is a big play business. Where are his? Im glad he's fast and can run down a guy on busted coverage. That's... Good... Make a play on the ball.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I'm just curious on what went on with the play where Mo played short zone and Byron was nowhere to be found as it looked like he went inside. The receiver went wide open, but Hoyer overthrew him.

I've liked his play so far at safety. But, he's working with a lot of limited talent. Hitchens doesn't cover the deep middle well. Church is severely limited in coverage. Carr basically has a pulse and Claiborne isn't really a zone corner although he's doing this best. And we have no pass rush.




YR

 

[ConceptCoop]

But their grading is also subjective. Anyone can do an eye test

It's not an eye test. They have an objective measurement for every action a player takes. Now, of course there is subjectivity in classifying those, but that's much different than an eye test.

 

[ThrowuptheXDez88]

Was it Jones guy (the TE) who caught two TD passes last night OR was that someone's else's coverage?

Yes, Jones was in coverage.. The 2nd TD he gave up, he was all over the TE, it was a heck of a throw, plus Jones had to make his way through Anthony Hitchens in the middle.. First TD, the TE got a little space with some hand fighting and the QB made a good timing throw. I'm not mad at him, I thought he was in really good position on the 2nd TD tho.

 

[ConceptCoop]

The NFL is a big play business. Where are his?

He's made game changing plays in each game this season. They're just not coming in the form that you've decided to measure them in.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It is not about like or any emotional reasoning as to PFF for me. Without the all-22 you cannot see DB much less FS play most of the time from the telecast.

 

[ConceptCoop]

Yes, Jones was in coverage.. The 2nd TD he gave up, he was all over the TE, it was a heck of a throw, plus Jones had to make his way through Anthony Hitchens in the middle.. First TD, the TE got a little space with some hand fighting and the QB made a good timing throw. I'm not mad at him, I thought he was in really good position on the 2nd TD tho.

He was in great position on both. One the first (that wouldn't have happened if the Bears weren't getting blown out, because Jones made an awesome play on 3rd down) there's really nothing he could have done. They give receivers a 5 yard cushion and Miller simply shoved Jones back, turned and caught a 2 yard pass.

Good call on the 2nd though. It was great coverage on his part just to be where he was, for the reason you pointed out.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Was it Jones guy (the TE) who caught two TD passes last night OR was that someone's else's coverage?

He was overpowered twice in man for TD.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He was in great position on both. One the first (that wouldn't have happened if the Bears weren't getting blown out, because Jones made an awesome play on 3rd down) there's really nothing he could have done. They give receivers a 5 yard cushion and Miller simply shoved Jones back, turned and caught a 2 yard pass.

Good call on the 2nd though. It was great coverage on his part just to be where he was, for the reason you pointed out.

No he wasn't; he was dominated on the release and couldn't recover. He was playing press man all 3 times so I have no idea what you are talking about with claims of off coverage.

 

[CATCH17]

He's made game changing plays in each game this season. They're just not coming in the form that you've decided to measure them in.

You're not understanding.

He's being mentioned in the group of Elite.. Guys like Earl Thomas.


Byron Jones is a really good, dynamic, physical player with high upside. He is not a game changing safety so far. He has that type of ability though.


The guy gave up a TD to Zach Miller and we are calling him elite.. Come on..

 

[ConceptCoop]

No he wasn't; he was dominated on the release and couldn't recover. He was playing press man all 3 times so I have no idea what you are talking about with claims of off coverage.

Not sure you meant to reply to me? I made no mention of off coverage. How could Miller have shoved Jones off the line if he was playing off, even?

 

[ConceptCoop]

He was overpowered twice in man for TD.

Wrong. The 2nd time he was picked by the play design/execution.

Miller is 6-4 245, BTW. Can you name a single DB who wouldn't have been overpowered by him on that 1st TD?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wrong. The 2nd time he was picked by the play design/execution.

That is getting overpowered. You have to play physical in those first 5 yards. Particularly in the red zone.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Not sure you meant to reply to me? I made no mention of off coverage. How could Miller have shoved Jones off the line if he was playing off, even?

Because a 5 yard cushion is off coverage.