Phil Taylor our new NT?

[Hostile]

You only said one thing.. take 5 seconds to remember what that was.

How do you propose we get better as a 34 defense without a true, solid NT?

We have one of the better NTs in Ratliff and a decent project in Brent.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

We have one of the better NTs in Ratliff and a decent project in Brent.

Ratliff got pushed around all year. Our run defense was horrible and we got no push up the middle. Rat would benefit greatly from a move to DE. You need more mass up the middle.

Look at all the successful 34 defenses in the league (Steelers, Ravens, etc..) what do they all have in common?

 

[Hostile]

Ratliff got pushed around all year. Our run defense was horrible and we got no push up the middle. Rat would benefit greatly from a move to DE. You need more mass up the middle.

Look at all the successful 34 defenses in the league (Steelers, Ravens, etc..) what do they all have in common?

Ratliff is not a DE. He'll return to form in 2011. I have no doubt.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Ratliff is not a DE. He'll return to form in 2011. I have no doubt.

Rat has the skill set to be successful on the edge for us. He's got alot of strength and has quickness for his size.

Its just physics. If we want to be solid up the middle, we need one of the 330-350 lb monsters clogging things up in the middle to allow our LB's to fly to the ball better. Every successful, hell im pretty sure every team that plays the 34 in the entire league has a NT at least 325 lbs.

Ratliff, as strong as he is, simply can't take on multiple blockers consistently and get any push. 290 is light for a DE in the 34, much less your NT.

Give me one of the huge space eating monsters who can get a consistent push and tie up blockers better, move Rat to one of the DE positions and our DL would be getting alot more push up front. As it is this year, we got next to none.

 

[Hostile]

Rat has the skill set to be successful on the edge for us. He's got alot of strength and has quickness for his size.

Its just physics. If we want to be solid up the middle, we need one of the 330-350 lb monsters clogging things up in the middle to allow our LB's to fly to the ball better. Every successful, hell im pretty sure every team that plays the 34 in the entire league has a NT at least 325 lbs.

Ratliff, as strong as he is, simply can't take on multiple blockers consistently and get any push. 290 is light for a DE in the 34, much less your NT.

Give me one of the huge space eating monsters who can get a consistent push and tie up blockers better, move Rat to one of the DE positions and our DL would be getting alot more push up front. As it is this year, we got next to none.

NT more important than DE in a 3-4. Our best DL needs to be in the most important role.

 

[KingintheNorth]

I wish we had a big, massive NT like Baylor's Phil Taylor or Cardinals potential free agent Gabe Watson. I'd move Ratliff all around the d line but mainly DE on obvious run plays and then NT on obvious passing downs.

That's just my opinion. I think Ratliff was not as effective against the run this year but he is still as good as it gets as a pass-rushing NT.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Ratliff got pushed around all year. Our run defense was horrible and we got no push up the middle. Rat would benefit greatly from a move to DE. You need more mass up the middle.

Look at all the successful 34 defenses in the league (Steelers, Ravens, etc..) what do they all have in common?

Pittsburgh had the #1 defense in the league with 6'2 305 pound Chris Hoke starting 10 when Casey Hampton went on IR.

Baltimore also did very well with Kelly Greg who was listed at about 6-0 310 while he was younger.

Size is very over-rated in a NT, it's welcomed, but the notion that Ratlif can't play NT and we would benifit from putting anyone fat guy there is false

 

[TheCount]

NT more important than DE in a 3-4. Our best DL needs to be in the most important role.

I dunno, we sure seemed to miss Spears after he went down.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Pittsburgh had the #1 defense in the league with 6'2 305 pound Chris Hoke starting 10 when Casey Hampton went on IR.

Baltimore also did very well with Kelly Greg who was listed at about 6-0 310 while he was younger.

Size is very over-rated in a NT, it's welcomed, but the notion that Ratlif can't play NT and we would benifit from putting anyone fat guy there is false

The Steelers also have considerable talent around them, and their starting NT is 325.

Kelly Gregg is 320 lbs, but im pretty sure Ngata is their NT.

Either way you won't find another guy near 290-295 playing NT in the national football league.

You don't need "some fat guy", but having a guy there with strength and mass benefits the rest of the front seven.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

NT more important than DE in a 3-4. Our best DL needs to be in the most important role.

If our best DL'men is getting tossed around inside then it really isn't helping us to have him there is it?

He's do better on the end where he could better use his strength and quickness to not only anchor one side against the run, but provide more push in the pass rush, while facing less double teams as well.

 

[Hostile]

I dunno, we sure seemed to miss Spears after he went down.

Yep. That doesn't mean he is better than Ratliff though. I want Spears back really badly. He is a huge part of our success.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

The Steelers also have considerable talent around them, and their starting NT is 325.

Kelly Gregg is 320 lbs, but im pretty sure Ngata is their NT.

Gregg is 320 now, but when baltimore first transitioned to a 3-4 he was 310.

And i know hampton is 325 ish, but in 04' or 05' he went on ir for the majority of the season and the steelers still had the #1 defense with chris hoke

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Gregg is 320 now, but when baltimore first transitioned to a 3-4 he was 310.

And i know hampton is 325 ish, but in 04' or 05' he went on ir for the majority of the season and the steelers still had the #1 defense with chris hoke

That's great, but its an outlier in this formula.. not the average.

Look around the league right now. Do any successful teams in the 34 have 290 lb NT's?

Casey Hampton 325
Kelly Gregg 320
Kris Jenkins 360
Haloti Ngata 350
Paul Soliai 355
Antonio Garay 320

The lowest you'll find is like 320-325. There's a reason for it. You NEED bigger guys up front in a 34. Average weight for a DE is around 300, and NT its around 325. If you want to dominate in the trenches you need mass and strength. Rat is strong, but putting him up against 2 or 3 guys who are 50 lbs heavier than him every play is just asking to get beat.

Extend his career, and help him be more effective by getting a real monster space eater in the middle and move him to DE where he can use his skills more effectively while facing less double teams.

Im not saying you absolutely have to have a big guy in the middle there, but it would help this defense out greatly, imo.

 

[jblaze2004]

hoke is also 6'2 not 6'4 or 6'5 like ratliff who is long and slim for a NT but might work well in an attacking 3-4 DE.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

hoke is also 6'2 not 6'4 or 6'5 like ratliff who is long and slim for a NT but might work well in an attacking 3-4 DE.

Yup, and he still has great strength, so he could anchor one side well against the run too.

 

[jblaze2004]

can we get someone like this at NT please. We need someone that is one of these descriptions...lol

 

[jblaze2004]

maybe he might workout. It would be great if he does.

 

[silverbear]

Ugh, what a disappointment this is so far.

Late off the ball, gets no push, easily blocked by one guard (does not require a double team), and when he gets tired it gets even worse.

I liked Taylor too but he doesn't look like the answer.

I'd like to see more of Kenrick Ellis.

I'm thinking that Phil might be better moving to the OL in the pros...

 

[BAT]

If everyone wants a fat guy, just sign this player. At least he is proven playmaker.

 

[BAT]

The Steelers also have considerable talent around them, and their starting NT is 325.

Kelly Gregg is 320 lbs, but im pretty sure Ngata is their NT.

Either way you won't find another guy near 290-295 playing NT in the national football league.

You don't need "some fat guy", but having a guy there with strength and mass benefits the rest of the front seven.

Wrong. Ngata played primarily DE when Gregg was not injured.