Playoff Cowboys

[rcaldw]

I know that every playoff team will have its weak links. But I was thinking this morning... who, on our team, do I really believe to be playoff caliber talent?

So here is my list, feel free to add or take away. Remember, you see this player and believe he deserves to START on a playoff caliber team:

Also - One caveat, it is based on THIS SEASON'S performance PLUS future potential if healthy.

QB - Romo
HB - Murray
TE - Witten
WR - Bryant
WR - Williams
C - Frederick
LT - Smith

DT - Hatcher
DE - Ware (if healthy)
LB - Lee (without the injuries)
CB - Scandrick
CB - Claiborne (if healthy)
CB - Carr

K - Bailey
Ret - Harris

Now, to me you could argue a couple of others, but it shows me that we still have some pretty significant gaps on this team.

 

[DragonCowboy]

From what I've seen of Claiborne, he doesn't look like he belongs as a starter on a playoff team yet (or in the near future, most likely)

I think that this is an interesting concept, but the idea is that injuries can (and will) happen, and we need to have players step up and play in the system. I'd say that we weren't nearly as prepared as we could have been for the DL (we did a great job of shuffling in randos and having some of them contribute well, but believing that Ratliff would play was a huge mistake, IMO).

You either have to have the depth or the coaching to make up for the players that get injured (and we don't have either, IMO), because even if we were to come up with a list of players that we think are playoff-caliber, chances are a few or a lot of them won't be available for the end of the season.

 

[rcaldw]

From what I've seen of Claiborne, he doesn't look like he belongs as a starter on a playoff team yet (or in the near future, most likely)

I think that this is an interesting concept, but the idea is that injuries can (and will) happen, and we need to have players step up and play in the system. I'd say that we weren't nearly as prepared as we could have been for the DL (we did a great job of shuffling in randos and having some of them contribute well, but believing that Ratliff would play was a huge mistake, IMO).

You either have to have the depth or the coaching to make up for the players that get injured (and we don't have either, IMO), because even if we were to come up with a list of players that we think are playoff-caliber, chances are a few or a lot of them won't be available for the end of the season.

None, the less, give me your list. I think it is a bit eye opening as to what I think is the biggest problem on the team. Personnel. It is compounded when you do your list and then take note of the ages of the people you feel are that kind of quality.

 

[DragonCowboy]

None, the less, give me your list. I think it is a bit eye opening as to what I think is the biggest problem on the team. Personnel. It is compounded when you do your list and then take note of the ages of the people you feel are that kind of quality.

Right, OK.

I'd have the same list as yours except I'd scratch off Ware (I think he's done) and Claiborne (he never was).

You don't really need the type of talent you're talking about though. I think the NFL has changed to the point where you can't expect to be loaded at all these positions. I don't see Philly being all that loaded. I think it's about putting those players in positions to succeed. I'd say it's about that as well as being able to have the depth to replace these players when they do get injured.

 

[rcaldw]

Right, OK.

I'd have the same list as yours except I'd scratch off Ware (I think he's done) and Claiborne (he never was).

You don't really need the type of talent you're talking about though. I think the NFL has changed to the point where you can't expect to be loaded at all these positions. I don't see Philly being all that loaded. I think it's about putting those players in positions to succeed. I'd say it's about that as well as being able to have the depth to replace these players when they do get injured.

Well, I agree with you for the most part. I think our problem is depth as well. And honestly, I don't know how ANY team prepares to play 20 different defensive linemen in a season.

I thought our LB's were a strength coming into the season. I was really excited about Carter. After the season, I only feel confident about Lee, and that only lasts for as long as he is healthy, and that never lasts an entire season.

 

[Alexander]

Now, to me you could argue a couple of others, but it shows me that we still have some pretty significant gaps on this team.

There are significant gaps on all the playoff team rosters.

 

[rcaldw]

There are significant gaps on all the playoff team rosters.

Can you fellas, just for one day, escape your argument mode? So far both of you have responded in light of a point that
(1) either you THINK I'm trying to make about Garrett - i.e., why we didn't make the playoffs

or

(2) a point you wish to make - i.e., we are coaching deficient

How about you leave that for a moment (is that even possible on this forum?)

And you simply give your views on the question I asked. Can you do that?

 

[rcaldw]

There are significant gaps on all the playoff team rosters.

And, by the way, if you read the original post well you will notice it began with these words:

"I know that every playoff team will have its weak links."

 

[DragonCowboy]

Can you fellas, just for one day, escape your argument mode? So far both of you have responded in light of a point that
(1) either you THINK I'm trying to make about Garrett - i.e., why we didn't make the playoffs

or

(2) a point you wish to make - i.e., we are coaching deficient

How about you leave that for a moment (is that even possible on this forum?)

And you simply give your views on the question I asked. Can you do that?

I'm just saying, I don't think that starting talent is a problem. I think there are a few teams that are just loaded, but for the most part the other teams aren't.

Our starting talent isn't that bad. The only weak link you see on the offense it looks like is the OL, which played really well this season from the looks of it, so I'm not even sure I'd call it a weak link.

Our defense is awful. Speaking of coaching, Marinelli did a great job with his "Couchboy" DL. Bruce Carter has been a huge disappointment (it's especially disappointing to see that he's one of the few if only players that gives up on plays/games). Either our defensive backfield is overrated or there's just not enough pass rush to make them look good...I'm not sure which one.

Talent-wise and even depth-wise, I'd say, though, we're not far off from winning the division. We never were, and the problem is that we've lost 3 win or in situations, so the talent is there, we just can't get it done.

 

[rcaldw]

I'm just saying, I don't think that starting talent is a problem. I think there are a few teams that are just loaded, but for the most part the other teams aren't.

Our starting talent isn't that bad. The only weak link you see on the offense it looks like is the OL, which played really well this season from the looks of it, so I'm not even sure I'd call it a weak link.

Our defense is awful. Speaking of coaching, Marinelli did a great job with his "Couchboy" DL. Bruce Carter has been a huge disappointment (it's especially disappointing to see that he's one of the few if only players that gives up on plays/games). Either our defensive backfield is overrated or there's just not enough pass rush to make them look good...I'm not sure which one.

Talent-wise and even depth-wise, I'd say, though, we're not far off from winning the division. We never were, and the problem is that we've lost 3 win or in situations, so the talent is there, we just can't get it done.

I agree with basically everything you say here. Our OL doesn't impress on paper, but I thought they played well this season. And your comments on the defensive backfield are spot on. I think it probably has to do with pressure. They looked better against the Eagles, and we got pressure on Foles.

I agree with both you guys on the fact that playoff teams have significant gaps around the league. I do wonder, though, if they might be deeper than we are.

 

[Zordon]

1. When I think of playoff caliber I think of being mentally tough enough to endure cold weather during this time of year like the '08 Giants did in negative 4 degree weather versus Green Bay. (this right here eliminates nearly half our team b/c many of them should poor effort in the fridged Chicago temps a few weeks ago, ex: Bruce Carter)

2. When I think of playoff caliber, I think of physically tough players that are capable of standing up to teams like the Niners/Ravens/Seahawks. Tackle strong, Run hard, Block to the end of the whistle. (This eliminates Morris Claiborne. The man simply does not enjoy the physical side of the game. If we're in a road game in Seattle and its him versus Lynch in the open field, do you trust him to make the tackle? I know I don't)

3.Finally I believe playoff caliber means being able to show consistency and having an established identity of who you are as a player. In order to win the Super Bowl you must win 3 or 4 games in a row, this requires CONSISTENCY. This means no drop balls, no mistimed routes, no ill advised penalties or turnovers. (I'm sorry folks but this eliminates Romo. I know everyone likes to blame his supporting cast, but the fact of the matter is he can get you 500 yds & 5 tds, yet still find a way to be the goat at the end of the game. His play is too erratic and not conducive for a win-or-go-home environment. In 2011 I witnessed one of the greatest clutch performances from Eli Manning in that game at Candlestick versus the Niners. His defense let him down a bit but he made some spectacular throws in that 4th quarter over and over and over again and led his team to victory. Romo cannot do that on the biggest stage.)

Using that criteria, my list is:

Tyron Smith: rock of the team
Ronald Leary: physical player, plays till the whistle
Travis Frederick: establishing an identity quickly as a smart player, little to no snap errors
Dwayne Harris: tough as nails, can be legitimate difference maker in a close playoff game
Dan Bailey: ice cold, showed he can kick in different weather conditions
Sean Lee: if healthy, he's one of your playmakers and overall consistent player
George Selvie: this guy was the surprise of the 2nd half of the season IMO. i expected him wear down, he didn't. i think he needs more experience but I think he responds well when the defense is maligned.
Cole Beasley: a guy who knows his role and performs it without error
Barry Church: physical player who will be needed in "run first" type of game in a cold weather environment
Orlando Scandrick: rarely gets beat badly and rarely misses a tackle, solid

Players I left off:

Dez Bryant: still prone to erratic play. must clean up ball security and catch more of those deep jump balls, dropped a few. i have hope for this guy.
Tony Romo: damaged goods, mentally he must be sapped for all the misfortunes he's caused throughout his career, I think the late turnovers thing is in his head at this point. I don't think you can go 3-4 straight games in the playoffs without bad Romo showing up.
Witten/Ware: prone to drop a ball or get penalized at the wrong time. Ware rarely shows up in big games, all playoff games are big. I think I might be tough on Witten but his drop in the Philly game is something I still haven't gotten over.
Carr: inconsistent player, period.
T. Williams: too many drops, needs to get stronger to deal with big physical corners like Seattle.

 

[Risen Star]

I'm just saying, I don't think that starting talent is a problem. I think there are a few teams that are just loaded, but for the most part the other teams aren't.

Our starting talent isn't that bad. The only weak link you see on the offense it looks like is the OL, which played really well this season from the looks of it, so I'm not even sure I'd call it a weak link.

Our defense is awful. Speaking of coaching, Marinelli did a great job with his "Couchboy" DL. Bruce Carter has been a huge disappointment (it's especially disappointing to see that he's one of the few if only players that gives up on plays/games). Either our defensive backfield is overrated or there's just not enough pass rush to make them look good...I'm not sure which one.

Talent-wise and even depth-wise, I'd say, though, we're not far off from winning the division. We never were, and the problem is that we've lost 3 win or in situations, so the talent is there, we just can't get it done.

Tell me again how half the starters are awful but we've got the talent to contend.

 

[Alexander]

And you simply give your views on the question I asked. Can you do that?

The question you asked was who on this team has "playoff talent".

And you want an answer to that? Why?

There is no magic to making the playoffs. It does not matter if we have five "playoff caliber" starters or 22. I could poke numerous holes on the rosters of many of these playoff teams. None of them are there because they just have stacked rosters.

A poorly coached or talent deficient team is going to sit at home.

 

[rcaldw]

1. When I think of playoff caliber I think of being mentally tough enough to endure cold weather during this time of year like the '08 Giants did in negative 4 degree weather versus Green Bay. (this right here eliminates nearly half our team b/c many of them should poor effort in the fridge Chicago temps a few weeks ago, ex: Bruce Carter)

2. When I think of playoff caliber, I think of physically tough players that are capable of standing up to teams like the Niners/Ravens/Seahawks. Tackle strong, Run hard, Block to the end of the whistle. (This eliminates Morris Claiborne. The man simply does not enjoy the physical side of the game.)

3.Finally I believe playoff caliber means being able to show consistency and having an established identity of who you are as a player. In order to win the Super Bowl you must win 3 or 4 games in a row, this requires CONSISTENCY. This means no drop balls, no mistimed routes, no ill advised penalties or turnovers. (I'm sorry folks but this eliminates Romo. I know everyone likes to blame his supporting cast, but the fact of the matter is he can get you 500 yds & 5 tds, yet still find a way to be the goat at the end of the game. His play is too erratic and not conducive for a win-or-go-home environment.)

Using that criteria, my list is:

Tyron Smith: rock of the team
Ronald Leary: physical player, plays till the whistle
Travis Frederick: establishing an identity quickly as a smart player, little to no snap errors
Dwayne Harris: tough as nails, can be legitimate difference maker in a close playoff game
Dan Bailey: ice cold, showed he can kick in different weather conditions
Sean Lee: if healthy, he's one of your playmakers and overall consistent player
George Selvie: this guy was the surprise of the 2nd half of the season IMO. i expected him wear down, he didn't. i think he needs more experience but I think he responds well when the defense is maligned.
Cole Beasley: a guy who knows his role and performs it without error
Barry Church: physical player who will be needed in "run first" type of game in a cold weather environment
Orlando Scandrick: rarely gets beat badly and rarely misses a tackle, solid

Players I left off:

Dez Bryant: still prone to erratic play. must clean up ball security and catch more of those deep jump balls, dropped a few. i have hope for this guy.
Tony Romo: damaged goods, mentally he must be sapped for all the misfortunes he's caused throughout his career, I think the late turnovers thing is in his head at this point. I don't think you can go 3-4 straight games in the playoffs without bad Romo showing up.
Witten/Ware: prone to drop a ball or get penalized at the wrong time. Ware rarely shows up in big games, all playoff games are big. I think I might be tough on Witten but his drop in the Philly game is something I still haven't gotten over.
Carr: inconsistent player, period.

Very interesting take Zordon. Very interesting. I think you have to have Witten on your list, even using the criterion you used. He had a big mistake against Philly, but that guy deserves better. I will never forget his helmet off run.

 

[rcaldw]

The question you asked was who on this team has "playoff talent".

And you want an answer to that? Why?

There is no magic to making the playoffs. It does not matter if we have five "playoff caliber" starters or 22. I could poke numerous holes on the rosters of many of these playoff teams. None of them are there because they just have stacked rosters.

A poorly coached or talent deficient team is going to sit at home.

Ok, thanks for the contribution.

 

[Alexander]

Ok, thanks for the contribution.

Sure no problem. And BTW, Claiborne is not a playoff caliber player.

 

[DragonCowboy]

Tell me again how half the starters are awful but we've got the talent to contend.

Crazy isn't it? We can't rely on our defense, but somehow we're always in contention right at the end of the year. Probably because the NFC East is so awful.

Also, turnovers.

 

[Risen Star]

1. When I think of playoff caliber I think of being mentally tough enough to endure cold weather during this time of year like the '08 Giants did in negative 4 degree weather versus Green Bay. (this right here eliminates nearly half our team b/c many of them should poor effort in the fridge Chicago temps a few weeks ago, ex: Bruce Carter)

2. When I think of playoff caliber, I think of physically tough players that are capable of standing up to teams like the Niners/Ravens/Seahawks. Tackle strong, Run hard, Block to the end of the whistle. (This eliminates Morris Claiborne. The man simply does not enjoy the physical side of the game. If we're in a road game in Seattle and its him versus Lynch in the open field, do you trust him to make the tackle? I know I don't)

3.Finally I believe playoff caliber means being able to show consistency and having an established identity of who you are as a player. In order to win the Super Bowl you must win 3 or 4 games in a row, this requires CONSISTENCY. This means no drop balls, no mistimed routes, no ill advised penalties or turnovers. (I'm sorry folks but this eliminates Romo. I know everyone likes to blame his supporting cast, but the fact of the matter is he can get you 500 yds & 5 tds, yet still find a way to be the goat at the end of the game. His play is too erratic and not conducive for a win-or-go-home environment. In 2011 I witnessed one of the greatest clutch performances from Eli Manning in that game at Candlestick versus the Niners. His defense let him down a bit but he made some spectacular throws in that 4th quarter over and over and over again. Romo cannot do that on the biggest stage.)

Using that criteria, my list is:

Tyron Smith: rock of the team
Ronald Leary: physical player, plays till the whistle
Travis Frederick: establishing an identity quickly as a smart player, little to no snap errors
Dwayne Harris: tough as nails, can be legitimate difference maker in a close playoff game
Dan Bailey: ice cold, showed he can kick in different weather conditions
Sean Lee: if healthy, he's one of your playmakers and overall consistent player
George Selvie: this guy was the surprise of the 2nd half of the season IMO. i expected him wear down, he didn't. i think he needs more experience but I think he responds well when the defense is maligned.
Cole Beasley: a guy who knows his role and performs it without error
Barry Church: physical player who will be needed in "run first" type of game in a cold weather environment
Orlando Scandrick: rarely gets beat badly and rarely misses a tackle, solid

Players I left off:

Dez Bryant: still prone to erratic play. must clean up ball security and catch more of those deep jump balls, dropped a few. i have hope for this guy.
Tony Romo: damaged goods, mentally he must be sapped for all the misfortunes he's caused throughout his career, I think the late turnovers thing is in his head at this point. I don't think you can go 3-4 straight games in the playoffs without bad Romo showing up.
Witten/Ware: prone to drop a ball or get penalized at the wrong time. Ware rarely shows up in big games, all playoff games are big. I think I might be tough on Witten but his drop in the Philly game is something I still haven't gotten over.
Carr: inconsistent player, period.

I agree. We need more players like George Selvie and Ronald Leary and less Tony Romos and Jason Wittens.

 

[rcaldw]

Sure no problem. And BTW, Claiborne is not a playoff caliber player.

He may not be, but I think he can be, and I think he played pretty darn well in the win or go home game against the Eagles.

 

[jobberone]

WR Dez Bryant Terrance Williams Dwayne Harris Micheal Spurlock
TE James Hanna
LT Tyron Smith Darrion Weems
LG Ronald Leary
C Travis Frederick Phil Costa
RG Mackenzy Bernadeau
RT Doug Free Jermey Parnell
TE Jason Witten Gavin Escobar
WR Miles Austin Dwayne Harris Cole Beasley
QB Tony Romo Kyle Orton
RB DeMarco Murray Phillip Tanner Joseph Randle DunbarTyler Clutts

LDE George Selvie Everette Brown Martez Wilson
DT Nick Hayden Jarius Wynn Frank Kearse
DT Jason Hatcher Corvey Irvin
RDE DeMarcus Ware
SLB Kyle Wilber Orie Lemon Cameron Lawrence
MLB Sean Lee DeVonte Holloman
WLB Bruce Carter Ernie Sims
LCB Brandon Carr B.W. Webb
RCB Orlando Scandrick Morris Claiborne Sterling Moore
FS Barry Church Danny McCray Jakar Hamilton
SS Jeff Heath J.J. Wilcox

P Chris Jones
K Dan Bailey
H Chris Jones Tony Romo
KR Dwayne Harris Terrance Williams Micheal Spurlock
PR Dwayne Harris Cole Beasley Dez Bryant
LS L.P. Ladouceur

This is our most recent depth chart on DC but may not be up to date. I bolded those players who can help compete for a playoff team. Not all should be considered starters much less Pro Bowl material.

Bass, Crawford, Johnson, and Spencer are playoff caliber players on IR. Johnson is an unknown and who knows if he can stay on the field. But he can play. It's if he can play.

Weems and Costa are adequate backups that could be upgraded although less is known about Weems who the club seems to like. Parnell will compete with Free again for starting RT. You can see we are thin at G.

Brown might be depth. Hayden, Wynn and Kearse might also be. If we get one or two out of that crowd to contribute then great.

Lemon might be a backup. His problem is speed. Carter's problem is injury and possibly not even a player. We'll find out. Holloman is a backup for now. Sims is not a player and I'm not sure why. He should be given a shot at playing S IMO. He might be a SS in the box type of guy.

Carr is slow. Webb needs work but has the tools. Claiborne is a mystery. Scandrick is solid. Church is a marginal starter. MeCray needs to go bye bye. Hamilton is a nickel guy that needs work. Heath is too slow. He is marginal depth at best. Wilcox needs work but has a future.

STs is fine.