Please read... need your opinion

NoLuv4Jerry

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,698
Reaction score
4,911
I got into it with a fried because he compared the New England Patriots to the Yankees. I asked why and he said because they are in contention to win every year...they lose players and just keep winning...their dynasty is more impressive because of free agency, salary cap etc....

First of all...because we live in the internet age....everything is magnified...and once a media outlet says something, it takes on a life of its own AND lazy journalism perpetuates it. However, it does HURT when Troy Aikman himself says their run was more impressive than ours. But because our run did not take palce during an era where the media coverage is in overdrive like it now, people don't fully grasp and/or have forgotten how dominant we were.

The Dallas Cowboys may have had there run before the dawn of free agency..BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN we kept everybody. How many KEY players or starters were on all 3 Super Bowl teams? These are the myths I am talking about. Alvin Harper was not on all 3 teams. Ken Norton Jr was not on all 3 teams. Mark Stepnoski was not on all 3 teams. Larry Allen was not on all 3 SB teams. James Washington was not on all 3 teams. Deion Sanders was not on all 3 teams. We had a DIFFERENT kicker for all 3 SB teams (more on that later) And last but NOT least and in fact MOST importantly, we DID not have the SAME Head coach, defensive coordinator and offensive coordintor on all 3 teams. Do you see where I am going with this?

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but has Bellicheck been there for all 3 SBs? Was Charlie Weiss there for all 3? Was Rome Crennel there for all 3? Not only that, had they all coached together before? Was McGinest there for all 3? Was Ty Law there for all 3? Was Vinaterri there for all 3? Was Brady there for all 3? Was Bruschi there for all 3? Again do you all see where I am going with this?

The Pats best asset (their coaching staff) was in place for ALL of their Super Bowls. They had THE SAME kicker, which they absolutley needed, when you consider they won ALL of their Super Bowls by a FG. Ty Law was there, sure he was injured for one, but so was Kevin Smith. And Erick Williams and Charles Haley were a shell of themselves dud to injureis by SB #3. So I do not want to here that excsue. In fact, just playing football was a miracle for Erick Williams. Willie McGinnest, Teffy Bruschi was there for all 3.

So when you look at our key players and theirs, which team was less in place for their Super Bowl run? And let's not forget we had to go through teams that actually won Super Bowls in the 90s to even GET TO THE Super Bowl. We had to beat the team of the 80s, the 49ers, that was littered with HOFers before we could even get to the big stage. We had to beat the Packers, another team that went to 2 Super Bowls in the 90s and had some HOF players on their teams, to even get to the Super Bowl. And we won our Super Bowls by a large margin against a team that went to 4 straight Super Bowls and has some HOFers on it.

The Pats beat the mighty expansion Carolina Panthers led by Jake Delhome BY A FG! The Pats beat the Rams led by grocery store clerk Kurt Warner by a FG. And they beat the Eagles ( an impresive win)...but STILL BY A FG. When they beat Jim Kelly (HOFer)..Bruce Smith (HOFer)...Thurman Thomas (probable HOFer) Marv Levy (HOFer)...Andre Reed (probably HOFer)..come talk to me. When they go through Steve Young (HOFer) every year to get to the SB..come and talk to me. When they go through Brett Favre (probable HOFer) come talk to me. When they go through Reggie White (HOFer) come talk to me. And when they LOSE their ENTIRE coaching staff and grab an out of work college wishbone coach off the couch and win a SB come and talk to me.

Not minimiziing their dynasty, but just trying to break down the myths and remind everyone that is in doubt (including you Troy Aikman) that contrary to popular belief we actually had more significant roster/coaching staff fluctuaitions and still won SBs by larger margins
 

zrinkill

Cowboy Fan
Messages
49,043
Reaction score
32,552
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
I have said before .....

You put all 4 of the playoff teams from yesterday together ......

and the Cowboys team from the early -mid 90's would beat them more often than not .....

That team destroyed incredibly good teams like the Niners and the Bears ......

Our oline would dominate them.
 

Fernando Fernandez

New Member
Messages
579
Reaction score
0
bbailey423;1326132 said:
I got into it with a fried...

Can you clarify by telling us if you you got into it with a fried: chicken, fish, rice, clam, zucchini, etc.?

And why on earth would you get into something that is fried?

Your post is very confusing.
 

Bleu Star

Bye Felicia!
Messages
33,925
Reaction score
19,920
Fernando Fernandez;1326197 said:
Can you clarify by telling us if you you got into a fried with: chicken, fish, rice, clams, zucchini, etc.?

And why on earth would you get into something that is fried?

Your post is very confusing.

So mean... :lmao:
 

NoLuv4Jerry

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,698
Reaction score
4,911
Fernando Fernandez;1326197 said:
Can you clarify by telling us if you you got into a fried with: chicken, fish, rice, clams, zucchini, etc.?

And why on earth would you get into something that is fried?

Your post is very confusing.
an OBVIOUS spelling mistake....if you have nothing of substance to add...bounce
 

chinch

No Quarter
Messages
3,596
Reaction score
0
the 90s boys would destroy any superbowl winner of recent years, but you can't compare 80s teams to 90s teams to 2000 teams... different eras.

what is impressive about the pats is - poor competition and lucky bounces/favorable calls aside - they didn't SELF DESTRUCT like the 'boys did. i'm sure Troy sees that and factors in alot of missed opportunity, most of which was self-inflicted (jerruh, jimmah, michael, erik, etc. etc. etc)
 

Hostile

The Duke
Messages
119,565
Reaction score
4,544
zrinkill;1326171 said:
I have said before .....

You put all 4 of the playoff teams from yesterday together ......

and the Cowboys team from the early -mid 90's would beat them more often than not .....

That team destroyed incredibly good teams like the Niners and the Bears ......

Our oline would dominate them.
Packers. In the first 2 Super Bowl years the Bears were 5-11 & 7-9.
 

zrinkill

Cowboy Fan
Messages
49,043
Reaction score
32,552
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
Hostile;1326209 said:
Packers. In the first 2 Super Bowl years the Bears were 5-11 & 7-9.

I meant Bills ....... have stupid bears on the brain.
 

Jarv

Loud pipes saves lives.
Messages
13,792
Reaction score
8,662
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
bbailey423;1326205 said:
an OBVIOUS spelling mistake....if you have nothing of substance to add...bounce

Lol, he compared 3 championships of the Pats to 26 of the Yankees over 90 years ? The Cowboys made the playoffs under Laundry something like 18 outta 19 years and played in 5 Superbowls.

Your friend is fried.
 

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
Seems to me, there are two things in question here.

1. Who's run is more impressive in context to exitsting obsticals of each teams eras.

2. Which team was better.

The problem here is that you seem to be blurring the two. There seprarate questions. I did not hear the comment from Aikman so I don't know exactly know what he said but I'd be very surprised if he said the NE team was better.

I would agree with Aikman in that it is more impressive what New England has been able to do. A great deal tougher to collect talent and keep it in this day and age. Lots of different obsticals IMO. Wasn't as tough for the Cowboys of the early 90s.

I also believe that those Cowboy teams would have dominated the teams of today. They were so deep and you were able to keep guys around.
 

NoLuv4Jerry

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,698
Reaction score
4,911
ABQCOWBOY;1326227 said:
Seems to me, there are two things in question here.

1. Who's run is more impressive in context to exitsting obsticals of each teams eras.

2. Which team was better.

The problem here is that you seem to be blurring the two. There seprarate questions. I did not hear the comment from Aikman so I don't know exactly know what he said but I'd be very surprised if he said the NE team was better.

I would agree with Aikman in that it is more impressive what New England has been able to do. A great deal tougher to collect talent and keep it in this day and age. Lots of different obsticals IMO. Wasn't as tough for the Cowboys of the early 90s.

I also believe that those Cowboy teams would have dominated the teams of today. They were so deep and you were able to keep guys around.
that is my point....WE LOST talent....Ken Norton, Alvin Harper, Mark Stepnoski, Jimmie Jones...the head coach, the o-coordinator, the d-coordinator...it might have not been the free agent era...but we did not keep everybody....I might be wrong on this...but name me a key member of the Pats 3 SBs that was not on all 3 teams...I am sure there are some, but please enlighten me and tell me if they were more significant than the guys we lost
 

Doomsday101

Well-Known Member
Messages
107,762
Reaction score
39,034
bbailey423;1326285 said:
that is my point....WE LOST talent....Ken Norton, Alvin Harper, Mark Stepnoski, Jimmie Jones...the head coach, the o-coordinator, the d-coordinator...it might have not been the free agent era...but we did not keep everybody....I might be wrong on this...but name me a key member of the Pats 3 SBs that was not on all 3 teams...I am sure there are some, but please enlighten me and tell me if they were more significant than the guys we lost

Pats have lost quite a few players from their 1st SB to their last SB. WR core different, OL different and loses on the defensive side as well. Pats deserve the credit because like any other championship team they went out and earned it.
 

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
bbailey423;1326285 said:
that is my point....WE LOST talent....Ken Norton, Alvin Harper, Mark Stepnoski, Jimmie Jones...the head coach, the o-coordinator, the d-coordinator...it might have not been the free agent era...but we did not keep everybody....I might be wrong on this...but name me a key member of the Pats 3 SBs that was not on all 3 teams...I am sure there are some, but please enlighten me and tell me if they were more significant than the guys we lost

We lost Harper and Step in 95. We lost Norton and Jimmie Jones in 94. We lost Jimmy Johnson in 95 and coordinators along the way. The point here is that we were so deep that we could afford to lose players and still be better then the next best team. We could afford to lose coaches and still be better. NE has never been that deep. Your position is flawed because you fail to recognize the fact that we had more to begin with. We had guys sitting on your bench that were as good as starters for other teams.

I really hate doing this. Now it's on us or me to go and find all the info on NE to support the fact that players have come and gone thru FA during there run. To me, that's BS but OK. I'll do it this once.

Terrell Buckly CB gone in 2003
Mike Compton C gone in 2004
Brian Cox LB gone in 2002
Terry Glenn WR gone in 2002
Bobby Hamilton DE gone in 2003
Antwon Harris CB gone in 2004
Ted Johnson LB gone in 2004
Kenyatta Jones OT gone in 2003
Tebucky Jones CB gone in 2003
Tye Law CB gone in 2005
Willie McGuinst LB gone in 2005
Lawyer Malloy S gone in 2003
David Patten WR gone in 2005
Roman Phifer LB gone in 2005
Anthoney Pleasent DE gone in 2003
Greg Randell OT Gone in 2002
J.R. Redman RB gone in 2003
Antwon Smith RB gone in 2004
Otis Smith CB gone in 2003
Ken Walter K Gone in 2004
Damian Woody C gone in 2004
Drew Bledsoe QB gone in 2002
Joe Andruzzi G gone in 2005
Deion Branch WR gone in 2006


These are not all. These are just the guys from like 2001 team.
 

NoLuv4Jerry

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,698
Reaction score
4,911
Doomsday101;1326298 said:
Pats have lost quite a few players from their 1st SB to their last SB. WR core different, OL different and loses on the defensive side as well. Pats deserve the credit because like any other championship team they went out and earned it.
agreed...just wish someone can provide me with names....names of guys who were not on all 3 SB teams. The certainly deserve credit. But people act like we are seeing something we have never seen before. It is just the latest "thing" we are seeing. And I am not a hater...my friend is a Skins fan and he is just always looking to get a dig into the Cowboys. And I had him stumped for 30 mins before he finally said he could not name anyone off the Pats that had not been there for all 3 SBs. Like I have said, I am sure there are some, but why is it so hard for me or anyone else to come up with names. I think David Patten, a WR is a name. Lawyer Milloy is also a name. But I like I said, we won with 3 diffrent safeties if I recall. Thomas Everett, James Washington and Brock Marion....but because it was before the internet age, people probably forget
 

Doomsday101

Well-Known Member
Messages
107,762
Reaction score
39,034
bbailey423;1326349 said:
agreed...just wish someone can provide me with names....names of guys who were not on all 3 SB teams. The certainly deserve credit. But people act like we are seeing something we have never seen before. It is just the latest "thing" we are seeing. And I am not a hater...my friend is a Skins fan and he is just always looking to get a dig into the Cowboys. And I had him stumped for 30 mins before he finally said he could not name anyone off the Pats that had not been there for all 3 SBs. Like I have said, I am sure there are some, but why is it so hard for me or anyone else to come up with names. I think David Patten, a WR is a name. Lawyer Milloy is also a name. But I like I said, we won with 3 diffrent safeties if I recall. Thomas Everett, James Washington and Brock Marion....but because it was before the internet age, people probably forget

Look above ABQCOWBOY did a good job of showing the Pats losses
 

NoLuv4Jerry

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,698
Reaction score
4,911
ABQCOWBOY;1326344 said:
We lost Harper and Step in 95. We lost Norton and Jimmie Jones in 94. We lost Jimmy Johnson in 95 and coordinators along the way. The point here is that we were so deep that we could afford to lose players and still be better then the next best team. We could afford to lose coaches and still be better. NE has never been that deep. Your position is flawed because you fail to recognize the fact that we had more to begin with. We had guys sitting on your bench that were as good as starters for other teams.

I really hate doing this. Now it's on us or me to go and find all the info on NE to support the fact that players have come and gone thru FA during there run. To me, that's BS but OK. I'll do it this once.

Terrell Buckly CB gone in 2003
Mike Compton C gone in 2004
Brian Cox LB gone in 2002
Terry Glenn WR gone in 2002
Bobby Hamilton DE gone in 2003
Antwon Harris CB gone in 2004
Ted Johnson LB gone in 2004
Kenyatta Jones OT gone in 2003
Tebucky Jones CB gone in 2003
Tye Law CB gone in 2005
Willie McGuinst LB gone in 2005
Lawyer Malloy S gone in 2003
David Patten WR gone in 2005
Roman Phifer LB gone in 2005
Anthoney Pleasent DE gone in 2003
Greg Randell OT Gone in 2002
J.R. Redman RB gone in 2003
Antwon Smith RB gone in 2004
Otis Smith CB gone in 2003
Ken Walter K Gone in 2004
Damian Woody C gone in 2004
Drew Bledsoe QB gone in 2002
Joe Andruzzi G gone in 2005
Deion Branch WR gone in 2006


These are not all. These are just the guys from like 2001 team.
Appreciate the list...but how many Super Bowls did they win after significant losses...I am sure I can come up with a list that long for the Cowboys...but we had KEY losses AND WON the Super Bowl...how many Super Bowls have they won without Bellicheck....how many have the won without Weiss....how many have they won without Crenell....how many have they won without Deion Branch...how many have they won without Willie McGinnest...how many have they won without Ty Law
 
Top