Post Hardy/Demarco transaction Mock

[Bigtommyb]

My mock is with the premise that Gordon ad Gurley will not be there. Which I think is a realistic possibility.




1 - Eddie Goldman - DT - Florida St - 6'4 325 - Not a prototypical "FATBOY" NT. Plays with violent hand
and pushs upfield. perfect guy and size we need in the middle. Hayden and Crawford played well last
year, but their depth guys.



2- Preston Smith - DE/DT - Mississippi St. - 6'5 270 - Had a great Combine, already possesses real good
pass rushing skills and also is a good rusher from the INSIDE. My thinking is while I fought with picking a
rb here. If Gordon and Gurley are gone im not picking one in the 2nd. I don't think the 2nd rounders are
any better then what we have. Chargers, Ravens and Panthers possibly will pic rbs. So my focus is
making this Dl as strong as the Ol. Smith can start on outside then move in periodically when Kraken
Kraken, Lawrence, Goldman ,Mincey, Smith, Crawford, Hayden,Brent a formidable pass rush. Smith is
Kraken insurance.


3- Daryl Williams - OT/G - Oklahoma - 6'5 335 - Mauler plays with mean streak, Doug Free's replacement.
This makes this line undisputably the best line in Nfl. Soon ill be able to run behind this line? Maybe not.


4- Taiwan Jones - ILB - Michigan St - 6'3 252 Great size for ilb/ Mclainesc. Lee moves as expected and
more insurance if Mclain is suspended or doesn't sign. Lee, Mclain?, Jones, Hitchens, Rivers, Wilber,
Brinkley and Gashzcar.


5- Ladarius Gunther - CB - Miami 6'1 198


7- Christion Jones - WR/KR - Alabama - 5'11 187

7- Sam Carter - FS/SS - TCU

 

[AzorAhai]

Im not sure Goldman has good enough pass rush skills. I don't think he would be on the field in the nickel package and probably only plays ~30% of the snaps. Not enough to warrant a 1st rd pick.

 

[Bigtommyb]

[gOfHonor88, post: 6047273, member: 38418"]Im not sure Goldman has good enough pass rush skills. I don't think he would be on the field in the nickel package and probably only plays ~30% of the snaps. Not enough to warrant a 1st rd pick.[/quote]
He is not a protypical nt and if he good at his job and has more elite pass rushers in kraken Mincey Lawrence and Smith then he is worth a first rd pick. I like Davis from Iowa also here. Disagree if there not straight passrushers then he doesnt warrant 1st rd grade.

 

[AzorAhai]

[gOfHonor88, post: 6047273, member: 38418"]Im not sure Goldman has good enough pass rush skills. I don't think he would be on the field in the nickel package and probably only plays ~30% of the snaps. Not enough to warrant a 1st rd pick.

He is not a protypical nt and if he good at his job and has more elite pass rushers in kraken Mincey Lawrence and Smith then he is worth a first rd pick. I like Davis from Iowa also here. Disagree if there not straight passrushers then he doesnt warrant 1st rd grade.[/quote]

The fact that he's not a pass rusher means he will only play in base packages. A run stopper with little in pass rush skills won't play enough to warrant a high pick. If a 1T who will play in the nickel package is available, you can warrant the high pick. A part time player isn't worth a 1st.

 

[slick325]

He is not a protypical nt and if he good at his job and has more elite pass rushers in kraken Mincey Lawrence and Smith then he is worth a first rd pick. I like Davis from Iowa also here. Disagree if there not straight passrushers then he doesnt warrant 1st rd grade.

[quote="RingOfHonor88"The fact that he's not a pass rusher means he will only play in base packages. A run stopper with little in pass rush skills won't play enough to warrant a high pick. If a 1T who will play in the nickel package is available, you can warrant the high pick. A part time player isn't worth a 1st.[/quote]

I understand where you're coming from but disagree wholeheartedly with the premise a part time player isn't worth a 1st. Not saying Eddie Goldman or Malcolm Brown are any of these players but the position they play is similar: Casey Hampton formerly of the Steelers (1st round pick 19....5 time Pro Bowler); Haloti Ngata formerly of the Ravens now of the Lions (1st round pick 12....5 time Pro Bowler); Vince Wilfork formerly of the Pats now of the Texans (1st round pick number 21...5 time Pro Bowler); Dontari Poe of the Chiefs (1st round pick number 11...2 time Pro Bowler); and BJ Raji last played for the Packers (1st round pick 9...1 time Pro Bowler)...all are/were difference makers and that is the most essential thing a 1st rounder must be in my opinion.

Malcom Brown, Eddie Goldman and Danny Shelton (he will be LONG gone by Dallas' pick) all have the ability to be difference makers at the 1tech. The Cowboys defense needs difference makers. No way you, the coaches or anyone else that undervalues the 1tech position can tell me that they would pass on the players I listed above. No way they can say that those players aren't immediate upgrades to a DL. No way they can say those players weren't worthy of a 1st round pick.

 

[slick325]

As for the OP's mock...love the 1st pick of Goldman but think a CB and RB need to be picked early. Like the thought of getting Free's replacement and adding DL depth (especially since Hardy is on a 1yr deal) but not sure I can pass on a back or CB in the first few rounds.

 

[RandyOh]

Preston Smith wont be there when we pick in the 2nd. Replace with a RB and i would have no problem with this draft.

 

[Zekeats]

No RB no point

 

[AzorAhai]

I understand where you're coming from but disagree wholeheartedly with the premise a part time player isn't worth a 1st. Not saying Eddie Goldman or Malcolm Brown are any of these players but the position they play is similar: Casey Hampton formerly of the Steelers (1st round pick 19....5 time Pro Bowler); Haloti Ngata formerly of the Ravens now of the Lions (1st round pick 12....5 time Pro Bowler); Vince Wilfork formerly of the Pats now of the Texans (1st round pick number 21...5 time Pro Bowler); Dontari Poe of the Chiefs (1st round pick number 11...2 time Pro Bowler); and BJ Raji last played for the Packers (1st round pick 9...1 time Pro Bowler)...all are/were difference makers and that is the most essential thing a 1st rounder must be in my opinion.

Malcom Brown, Eddie Goldman and Danny Shelton (he will be LONG gone by Dallas' pick) all have the ability to be difference makers at the 1tech. The Cowboys defense needs difference makers. No way you, the coaches or anyone else that undervalues the 1tech position can tell me that they would pass on the players I listed above. No way they can say that those players aren't immediate upgrades to a DL. No way they can say those players weren't worthy of a 1st round pick.

All of those players are in different schemes. In this scheme if a 1T can't provide significant pass rush, he won't play on nickel downs. Also all of those players don't just hold their ground and eat up blockers when pass rushing. They provide push up the middle and have 3 down ability. If Goldman was here, he would be on the bench in nearly every nickel package with the backup 3T coming in to rush the passer. Last year Dallas played nickel almost 50% of the time. That means he would be on the bench almost 50% of the defensive snaps. If Shelton or Brown are there, I'm OK with the pick because they can generate enough pressure to play in some nickel situations. Dallas will not pick a 1T in Rd 1 unless they can put enough pressure on the QB to stay on the field in nickel situations. They simply don't value a run stopper that high in the draft. We will just have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[slick325]

All of those players are in different schemes. In this scheme if a 1T can't provide significant pass rush, he won't play on nickel downs. Also all of those players don't just hold their ground and eat up blockers when pass rushing. They provide push up the middle and have 3 down ability. If Goldman was here, he would be on the bench in nearly every nickel package with the backup 3T coming in to rush the passer. Last year Dallas played nickel almost 50% of the time. That means he would be on the bench almost 50% of the defensive snaps. If Shelton or Brown are there, I'm OK with the pick because they can generate enough pressure to play in some nickel situations. Dallas will not pick a 1T in Rd 1 unless they can put enough pressure on the QB to stay on the field in nickel situations. They simply don't value a run stopper that high in the draft. We will just have to agree to disagree on this.

In actuality the 1tech in the Kiffin and Marinelli schemes is required to do just what you stated the players I mentioned are asked to do...occupy blockers to keep the LB's and 3tech clean AND provide push up the middle. Dallas has no one at the position who can do the second part of the deal. The DLinemen are called "Rushmen" all players are required to provide a pass rush. Further, since Dallas is rotating players in order to keep them fresh, the concept of not being in on Nickel isn't a factor. Every lineman will get Nickel duty. Hayden played Nickel a great deal last season.

Dallas will go 1tech if that player is BPA. The misconception that Marinelli doesn't want one taken high is just that...a misconception. The most important pieces to his defense are the RDE (Greg Hardy....Simeon Rice in TB), 3tech(Crawford....Sapp in TB) and the Will (Sean Lee...Derrick Brooks in TB)...once those positions are filled he, Kiffen, Lovie Smith and Dungy have all shown that the next big get is a 1tech....see Booger McFarland in TB. I believe that the reason the Boys didn't pull the trigger on Floyd and the misconception got legs is because the 3tech was still a need as was the Will (hence why Shazier was an option last draft). Once the important positions in this scheme are filled (they get priority) then difference makers are next up no matter the position.

We shall see come April. I want a difference maker in the 1st no matter the position but would LOVE to upgrade the 1tech immediately! We'll see ROH88.

 

[AzorAhai]

In actuality the 1tech in the Kiffin and Marinelli schemes is required to do just what you stated the players I mentioned are asked to do...occupy blockers to keep the LB's and 3tech clean AND provide push up the middle. Dallas has no one at the position who can do the second part of the deal. The DLinemen are called "Rushmen" all players are required to provide a pass rush. Further, since Dallas is rotating players in order to keep them fresh, the concept of not being in on Nickel isn't a factor. Every lineman will get Nickel duty. Hayden played Nickel a great deal last season.

Dallas will go 1tech if that player is BPA. The misconception that Marinelli doesn't want one taken high is just that...a misconception. The most important pieces to his defense are the RDE (Greg Hardy....Simeon Rice in TB), 3tech(Crawford....Sapp in TB) and the Will (Sean Lee...Derrick Brooks in TB)...once those positions are filled he, Kiffen, Lovie Smith and Dungy have all shown that the next big get is a 1tech....see Booger McFarland in TB. I believe that the reason the Boys didn't pull the trigger on Floyd and the misconception got legs is because the 3tech was still a need as was the Will (hence why Shazier was an option last draft). Once the important positions in this scheme are filled (they get priority) then difference makers are next up no matter the position.

We shall see come April. I want a difference maker in the 1st no matter the position but would LOVE to upgrade the 1tech immediately! We'll see ROH88.

I would be thrilled if Brown or Shelton somehow was the pick at 27 because they can provide that push up the middle along with eating up blocks. I just don't think Goldman is any better in the pass rushing aspect than what's here now. He would be an upgrade in the run defense though. I guess we'll see as you say.

 

[waving monkey]

disregarding RB ?

 

[endersdragon]

4 biggest needs equal (in no particular order) LB, 1-tech, CB, and RB. You address 1 of these before the 4th round in a way that the Cowboys are almost sure not to and don't address 1 of them at all. No thanks.

 

[Bigtommyb]

4 biggest needs equal (in no particular order) LB, 1-tech, CB, and RB. You address 1 of these before the 4th round in a way that the Cowboys are almost sure not to and don't address 1 of them at all. No thanks.

Only thing that is not addressed is rb. I fought with myself in 2nd round. This is my opinion and reasons..... any second rounder is not much better then what we have.. RunDMc,Randle and Dunbar are equal to any 2nd. round rb. If its not Gordon Gurley. im not picking one. The. stupid argument about Golden is funny. Watch his play he doesnt have a 1st round grade for nothing. The purpose is to hv a rotation thars fresh, if he comes out on 3rd down so be it... if he does job on 1st and 2nd and is a clear upgrads...which he is to Hayden,Crawford he's worth pick IMO.

 

[endersdragon]

Only thing that is not addressed is rb. I fought with myself in 2nd round. This is my opinion and reasons..... any second rounder is not much better then what we have.. RunDMc,Randle and Dunbar are equal to any 2nd. round rb. If its not Gordon Gurley. im not picking one. The. stupid argument about Golden is funny. Watch his play he doesnt have a 1st round grade for nothing. The purpose is to hv a rotation thars fresh, if he comes out on 3rd down so be it... if he does job on 1st and 2nd and is a clear upgrads...which he is to Hayden,Crawford he's worth pick IMO.

My argument is that the Cowboys don't value 1-tech which there is a lot of evidence of. I am not doubting that he has a first round grade for a reason, but I believe the Cowboys would much rather have some cheap run stuffer in the middle and get a top CB or RB instead of a 1-tech DT. I am not saying they are right, I am just saying that seems to be the way they think. Just look at how much they pursued guys like Terrance Knighton (which while you could say is too big for 1-tech, is actually 5 pounds smaller than Golden so...) in free agency if you want some evidence of that, he was sitting right there for the picking and is one of the top big guys in the league who has put huge stats up at the professional level... Cowboys never showed any interest.

P.S. Are you really thinking about having a 325 (you) to 336 (ESPN) pound defender play 3-tech, if not why mention Crawford?

 

[Bigtommyb]

My argument is that the Cowboys don't value 1-tech which there is a lot of evidence of. I am not doubting that he has a first round grade for a reason, but I believe the Cowboys would much rather have some cheap run stuffer in the middle and get a top CB or RB instead of a 1-tech DT. I am not saying they are right, I am just saying that seems to be the way they think. Just look at how much they pursued guys like Terrance Knighton (which while you could say is too big for 1-tech, is actually 5 pounds smaller than Golden so...) in free agency if you want some evidence of that, he was sitting right there for the picking and is one of the top big guys in the league who has put huge stats up at the professional level... Cowboys never showed any interest.

P.S. Are you really thinking about having a 325 (you) to 336 (ESPN) pound defender play 3-tech, if not why knmention Crawford?

Take a look at Goldman with that 330 he is 6'4 and change he is not like knighton or more stought Dt who are 330 but are 6'1 to 6'2. 2 inches in height and how ones build need to be looked at, Not that there both 330. Maybe they didnt pick Knighton because of his talent and skills set which doesnt mean Goldman couldnt with a longer frame and better skill set. Watch his film. Not a fat boy nt.

 

[xwalker]

My mock is with the premise that Gordon ad Gurley will not be there. Which I think is a realistic possibility.

1 - Eddie Goldman - DT - Florida St - 6'4 325 - Not a prototypical "FATBOY" NT. Plays with violent hand
and pushs upfield. perfect guy and size we need in the middle. Hayden and Crawford played well last
year, but their depth guys.
Crawford is a depth guy? Tyrone Crawford?

Yes, he gets push into the backfield, but he is a pure 1tech type DT. He's an obvious upgrade over Hayden. The issue is that if the Cowboys find a second 3tech type DT to pair with Crawford in the Nickel, then the 1tech will like only play about 25% of the snaps (They played Nickel 66% of the snaps in 2014).


2- Preston Smith - DE/DT - Mississippi St. - 6'5 270 - Had a great Combine, already possesses real good
pass rushing skills and also is a good rusher from the INSIDE. My thinking is while I fought with picking a
rb here. If Gordon and Gurley are gone im not picking one in the 2nd. I don't think the 2nd rounders are
any better then what we have. Chargers, Ravens and Panthers possibly will pic rbs. So my focus is
making this Dl as strong as the Ol. Smith can start on outside then move in periodically when Kraken
Kraken, Lawrence, Goldman ,Mincey, Smith, Crawford, Hayden,Brent a formidable pass rush. Smith is
Kraken insurance.
I'm not overly impressed with him as a DE but he looks really good when rushing from the DT spot. They question would be if he can carry more weight to a 3tech DT and still keep enough quickness to be effective.


3- Daryl Williams - OT/G - Oklahoma - 6'5 335 - Mauler plays with mean streak, Doug Free's replacement.
This makes this line undisputably the best line in Nfl. Soon ill be able to run behind this line? Maybe not.
He looks like he needs to move to OG in the NFL.

At OT I would would look at some players with more athletic upside.


4- Taiwan Jones - ILB - Michigan St - 6'3 252 Great size for ilb/ Mclainesc. Lee moves as expected and
more insurance if Mclain is suspended or doesn't sign. Lee, Mclain?, Jones, Hitchens, Rivers, Wilber,
Brinkley and Gashzcar.
He seems to be a 2 down thumper type LB. They really need guys that can play in the Nickel and don't think Jones is that guy.


5- Ladarius Gunther - CB - Miami 6'1 198
Slowish.


7- Christion Jones - WR/KR - Alabama - 5'11 187
Not big and not that fast either. PR is the big need because the NFL rules don't allow for much in the way of Kick Returns. I mostly recall him as KR. I need to review to see if he was a PR also.

7- Sam Carter - FS/SS - TCU
Limited athlete from what I recall. More of a box type Safety in the NFL. I would probably lean towards some higher upside athletes here.

 

[Risen Star]

He is not a protypical nt and if he good at his job and has more elite pass rushers in kraken Mincey Lawrence and Smith then he is worth a first rd pick. I like Davis from Iowa also here. Disagree if there not straight passrushers then he doesnt warrant 1st rd grade.

They're just regurgitating what they hear from the team. That a 1 tech isn't worth a 1st round pick.

I choose to think for myself. That block eater inside is a facilitator to the entire defense. I value that much more than I do some dime a dozen cornerback who impacts nothing. These guys wouldn't have a problem with a cornerback selection with that pick but they scoff at a mere interior defensive lineman to help control the line of scrimmage.

The Cowboys say they can find them later. Really? When? Because we played for years without a real NT in our 3-4 and we currently field a sack of crap in Nick Hayden at the position. With the hella talented Terrell McClain in the mix. Does Josh Brent excite anybody?

And what position can't you find later? Pick a position. Some team has found a gem in later rounds. Even UDFA. It's a meaningless comment, like "Right kind of guy".

 

[Bigtommyb]

They're just regurgitating what they hear from the team. That a 1 tech isn't worth a 1st round pick.

I choose to think for myself. That block eater inside is a facilitator to the entire defense. I value that much more than I do some dime a dozen cornerback who impacts nothing. These guys wouldn't have a problem with a cornerback selection with that pick but they scoff at a mere interior defensive lineman to help control the line of scrimmage.

The Cowboys say they can find them later. Really? When? Because we played for years without a real NT in our 3-4 and we currently field a sack of crap in Nick Hayden at the position. With the hella talented Terrell McClain in the mix. Does Josh Brent excite anybody?

And what position can't you find later? Pick a position. Some team has found a gem in later rounds. Even UDFA. It's a meaningless comment, like "Right kind of guy".

Amen...brother youve said it better then i ever could. Crawford and Hayden overachieved. Goldman for how he plays and stops run is worth a number 1. If its not Gurley or Gordon i wouldnt pick one in 2nd because the grade on them are no better then what we have already. I know we cant keep neglecting this line and think.Crawford and Hayden are gonna be like last year. Its not the sexy pic but this line if addressed correctly will give us fresh rotation so the % mess goes out the window. This line will make the cbs better we tryed a cb in 1 st before. His name is mo.claiborne. Our focus needs to be on this DL .Thats our ticket to SB.

 

[Risen Star]

Amen...brother youve said it better then i ever could. Crawford and Hayden overachieved. Goldman for how he plays and stops run is worth a number 1. If its not Gurley or Gordon i wouldnt pick one in 2nd because the grade on them are no better then what we have already. I know we cant keep neglecting this line and think.Crawford and Hayden are gonna be like last year. Its not the sexy pic but this line if addressed correctly will give us fresh rotation so the % mess goes out the window. This line will make the cbs better we tryed a cb in 1 st before. His name is mo.claiborne. Our focus needs to be on this DL .Thats our ticket to SB.

I usually only do one Cowboys mock about a week before the draft but I started to look at it a couple of days ago and Goldman was the guy who stood out as potentially being there with a lot of value for the pick. I know most won't like it and the team seems to have this bias towards 1 techs, so it won't happen.