Prisco: Top 32: JaMarcus at No. 20? Crazy, but not that crazy

[burmafrd]

How often does a guy like Elway or Aikman come along= or a Peyton Manning?
those are the only QB prospects that you can pick without worrying a whole lot. Outside of players like them, its always a crapshoot. There are none this year; were none last year; or the year before that. Elway was 83; Aikman was 89; Manning was -what- 1999, 2000?

 

[WoodysGirl]

How often does a guy like Elway or Aikman come along= or a Peyton Manning?
those are the only QB prospects that you can pick without worrying a whole lot. Outside of players like them, its always a crapshoot. There are none this year; were none last year; or the year before that. Elway was 83; Aikman was 89; Manning was -what- 1999, 2000?

What or whose point are you debating? Because it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[theogt]

LOve how the Russell people on one hand say how great he was against a poor Irish D. They do not mention that Russell had bad games against most top Ds. They downgrade Quinn for the same- despite the fact that Russell had a much better Defense, AND a much better O line. BQ was running for his life this last year against even mediocre Ds.(once again RYAN HARRIS SUCKS) Not to mention trailing in all but 3 games last year. 10 games he had to come from behind and he won 7 of them. WIth a lousy D and a lousy O line.

Did you not read my post above at all?

 

[jay cee]

we do this every year. we take the 2 top qb's and make them top 5 talent. Sometimes its justified, like last yr, other times its not. I dont think either of these guys will make good NFL qb's. The odds are with me. They are both WAY overated b/c of the position they play.

I could not possibly agree with you more. And to think the Raiders could have had leinart last year with I believe the 7th pick.

Now they are considering using the #1 on Russell or Quinn. Talk about getting diminishing value.

 

[burmafrd]

No OGT, you are the one cherry picking facts. As other posters have pointed out. Show me a great game by Russell against a top D.

 

[theogt]

No OGT, you are the one cherry picking facts. As other posters have pointed out. Show me a great game by Russell against a top D.

He played against 5 top 25 pass defenses. In those games he had a (NFL) QB rating of 130. In my book that's pretty good.

Oh, and how is looking only at the games against top ranked pass defenses cherry picking? That's a new one to me.

 

[burmafrd]

Ratings in College football are usually very high. No big there. BUT did not some poster talk about such small things as TDS and INTS? in THOSE games against top 25 Ds? LSU lost a few games these last couple of seasons didn't they? With a top D and supposedly a great QB. Why is that?

 

[theogt]

Ratings in College football are usually very high. No big there.

Did you not see that I put his NFL rating up there? His NCAA rating was 267!!!! Against 5 of the best defenses in the NFL he put up better QB rating than Quinn did on the season, and Quinn only played against 2 defenses in the top 25.

BUT did not some poster talk about such small things as TDS and INTS? in THOSE games against top 25 Ds?

I believe his TD/INT ratio against top 25 defenses was 12 TDs and 6 INTs. Not bad at all.

LSU lost a few games these last couple of seasons didn't they? With a top D and supposedly a great QB. Why is that?

So your argument was that because he didn't have a perfect Win/Loss record in college, he isn't any good?

 

[burmafrd]

What were Russells stats in the games LSU lost? Just curious- since some think that does not matter for Russell but does for Quinn.

 

[theogt]

What were Russells stats in the games LSU lost? Just curious- since some think that does not matter for Russell but does for Quinn.

What's the point? That he had a couple bad games in college, therefore he isn't any good? You think Peyton Manning never had a bad game in college? Your argument has turned into claiming that he isn't that good because he wasn't perfect in every single game.

The bottom line is that he performed better than Quinn overall and against top defenses.

Forgive me for engaging one of the biggest ND homers on earth on this subject.

 

[burmafrd]

You CLAIM he did better then Quinn. Does not make it so.
Now Russell had a better O line and a better D then Quinn did. He did not have to keep coming from behind all the time nor dodge rushers all the time. So explain how better stats under those conditions SHOW that Russell is better?

 

[theogt]

You CLAIM he did better then Quinn. Does not make it so.
Now Russell had a better O line and a better D then Quinn did. He did not have to keep coming from behind all the time nor dodge rushers all the time. So explain how better stats under those conditions SHOW that Russell is better?

Ok, he had better stats. We can debate about whether he was a better QB, but that will get us no where. You do have to at least accept that he had better stats, particularly against good defenses.

Also, Russell had at least 8 come from behind wins in his college career. You have a good point, though. Russell did have a better line, defense, and receivers. It's impossible to say, though, what his stats would have been like if he had played for Notre Dame. Then again, maybe the Notre Dame teammates might have played at a higher level with a QB like Russell.

 

[burmafrd]

Played at a higher level? Really. Your man love for Russell is interesting. LSU has had a top 10 caliber team for several years. Lots of talent and a NC not too long ago. They have been riding high and well. ND has had to scratch and claw for most of its wins- the talent is not there for a top 10 team and they know it. Leave out the polls and all the mediot hype- the PLAYERS know they have to play at their very best to have a shot at the top teams. BQ has been front and center and a LEADER for that team. I seriously doubt that RUSSELL has either needed to or been as much a leader as BQ has been for the Irish.

 

[Jay-D]

I've got a bad feeling about Brady Quinn. I think the NFL will chew him up and spit him out.

 

[burmafrd]

By the way- last two seasons in the 6 losses ND had (all to top 10 teams except for Michigan State- an OT loss-) Quinn had 20 TDS and 9 INTS. While in the losses for LSU Russell was 2tds and 6 ints.

 

[burmafrd]

Why should the NFL chew up BQ? He already is used to having a bad D and a poor O line?

 

[Cochese]

By the way- last two seasons in the 6 losses ND had (all to top 10 teams except for Michigan State- an OT loss-) Quinn had 20 TDS and 9 INTS. While in the losses for LSU Russell was 2tds and 6 ints.

And your point is what?

 

[DallasEast]

Now Russell had a better O line and a better D then Quinn did.

Russell also had a better running game and better receivers.

 

[theogt]

Played at a higher level? Really. Your man love for Russell is interesting. LSU has had a top 10 caliber team for several years. Lots of talent and a NC not too long ago. They have been riding high and well. ND has had to scratch and claw for most of its wins- the talent is not there for a top 10 team and they know it. Leave out the polls and all the mediot hype- the PLAYERS know they have to play at their very best to have a shot at the top teams. BQ has been front and center and a LEADER for that team. I seriously doubt that RUSSELL has either needed to or been as much a leader as BQ has been for the Irish.

It was a joke. Did you not see the smiley? No, just like you didn't see that I posted the NFL rating above and that I posted his stats against top 25 defenses earlier in the thread.

Now, since I've shown that Russell performed better than Quinn, particularly against top defenses, you're arguing that Quinn is better because he is a "leader" and Russell is not. I really don't know how you can see what goes on inside lockerrooms, but I'll leave you with that, grasping for straws.

 

[burmafrd]

NDs losses in 2005 were to Mich State in OT (early in the season before their annual melt down) USC - which only happened due to Bush pushing Leinart into the endzone on the last play of the game- and the loss to Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl- where Brady played well but the D as usual was out to lunch. 2006: Michigan- Brady did not play well. USC- Brady did play pretty well but a lot of passes were dropped- especially by McKnight; and the D sucked. as usual. LSU- Once again Brady played well- after missing some passes early- and once again several were dropped and the D sucked again. And for all of 2006 an O line that had 4 starters back from 2005 sucked about as bad as the D (ONE MORE TIME- RYAN HARRIS STINKS IT UP).