Projecting Doug Free

Stash

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"$7.5 million in total cost" is such a silly way to look at Doug Fred's cost to the team.

What's truly "silly" is that the facts bother you.

Doug Free took up 2.9% of our cap last year and will cost 4.5% of our cap this year. I think a key starter on the single most dominant unit in all of football is worth a two year average of 3.7% od our cap. Don't you?

No. I thought that was clear. And in no way, shape, or form is Doug Free a "key starter".

Using a term like that to describe such a mediocre player and the worst offensive starter is "silly".
 

GhostOfPelluer

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What's truly "silly" is that the facts bother you.



No. I thought that was clear. And in no way, shape, or form is Doug Free a "key starter".

Using a term like that to describe such a mediocre player and the worst offensive starter is "silly".
I wouldn't call Free a key player but he did play the third-most snaps on the team, so he probably earned his 2016 salary and would do so in 2017 if that number repeats itself.
 

Nightman

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I don't get the love Free gets around here.......he is horrible and gets our QBs killed

We already have 2 guys that can replace him in Green and Cleary

Cut him and see that no one signs him...... then you Freeloaders can bring him back as insurance for the minimum
 

Toruk_Makto

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What's truly "silly" is that the facts bother you.



No. I thought that was clear. And in no way, shape, or form is Doug Free a "key starter".

Using a term like that to describe such a mediocre player and the worst offensive starter is "silly".
He started every game at RT on the single most dominant unit in all of football. You play that many snaps on the best unit in football and yes you are a key starter.
 

John813

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I'm sure some in the FO want to move on but you don't just cut a guy without having a good fallback.
Green showed some promise early on then was injured the rest of the way. Cleary also looked ok, but it was a small sample size.
Odds are Free stays unless/until Green/cleary/new RT really plays well in TC/PS
 

Idgit

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Really don't think they're putting a priority on replacing Free. He's at the top of the discard pile for fans now, because he was never popular and never a standout player and now he's old. But there are players like that on every roster who just fit in and hold down a position that can otherwise be tough to fill. Teams like guys who stay in lineups, do everything right in meetings, and who are predictable and at least serviceable on gamedays. Free might blow some protections now and again, but he's not getting plays blown up the rest of the time by messing up a responsibility. When you have problems with players not knowing exactly what to do in other areas, the salty veteran who's not athletic enough becomes a secondary or tertiary problem.

Speaking of secondary problems....we need to fill our holes in both DB position groups. And we need to improve a DL rotation that's 3 good players short and 8 players deep. We're not going to knowingly create a new hole at RT that would require a relatively premium draft pick to fill, and we're not creating a hole at LG to fill a non-hole at RT, and we're not going to rely solely on Green and Cleary this season in order to save money on the last year of Free's contract.

I do think we should see an open competition in camp for that RT job. And if we're able to extend Free and keep him another two or maybe three years as a swing tackle after he loses out a head:head competition, I could live with that if he could. I like what we've seen from Green when he manages to play. He's just completely unreliable.
 

Nightman

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He started every game at RT on the single most dominant unit in all of football. You play that many snaps on the best unit in football and yes you are a key starter.
Sometimes you just have to jump in.... no one expected Dak to start off so strongly

Anyone watching has to admit CGreen filled in for TSmith like a champ and so did Cleary

Cut Free loose and let him see if there is a market for an old, weak turnstile...... when none develops he can come back and back up CGreen and Cleary if you guys need a security blanket
 

jobberone

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I don't see how you keep him at a $5 million price hike. Something's gotta give. I would open up the RT spot for all competition. Green, Collins, Cleary, whoever.

But I'm sure not paying this guy a total of $7.5 million for mediocre play.

That's a problem for sure. Pay cut??
 

Verdict

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Free is still a good run blocker. Pass pro-wise, you just never know what Doug Free is going to show up. And we may replace him with somebody better in pass pro, but inferior in run blocking.

I don't know why the team won't consider La'el Collins at RT. I love a lot of his drive blocking and his ability to pull and run, but I would like to keep Leary if we could.

YR

I would think that Collins would be an even better run blocker at RT than Free. I guess it is possible he would suck more than Free at pass protection, based om Free's production last year. But if Free regresses a small amount this year due to his age and waning mobility, that could cause a significant dropoff in pass protection, because Free is just barely getting it done a lot of the time already.
 

Verdict

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Really don't think they're putting a priority on replacing Free. He's at the top of the discard pile for fans now, because he was never popular and never a standout player and now he's old. But there are players like that on every roster who just fit in and hold down a position that can otherwise be tough to fill. Teams like guys who stay in lineups, do everything right in meetings, and who are predictable and at least serviceable on gamedays. Free might blow some protections now and again, but he's not getting plays blown up the rest of the time by messing up a responsibility. When you have problems with players not knowing exactly what to do in other areas, the salty veteran who's not athletic enough becomes a secondary or tertiary problem.

Speaking of secondary problems....we need to fill our holes in both DB position groups. And we need to improve a DL rotation that's 3 good players short and 8 players deep. We're not going to knowingly create a new hole at RT that would require a relatively premium draft pick to fill, and we're not creating a hole at LG to fill a non-hole at RT, and we're not going to rely solely on Green and Cleary this season in order to save money on the last year of Free's contract.

I do think we should see an open competition in camp for that RT job. And if we're able to extend Free and keep him another two or maybe three years as a swing tackle after he loses out a head:head competition, I could live with that if he could. I like what we've seen from Green when he manages to play. He's just completely unreliable.


Free is the type of player that a team like the Patriots would try to move on from before the bottom falls out for him. If he is as valuable as you say he is, a team should be willing to give up say a third rounder to obtain a player off of the most dominant line in all of pro football, right?
 

jobberone

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I don't get the love Free gets around here.......he is horrible and gets our QBs killed

We already have 2 guys that can replace him in Green and Cleary

Cut him and see that no one signs him...... then you Freeloaders can bring him back as insurance for the minimum

This is all or nothing thinking.

Saying Free's play dropped off last year but he still only gave up 9 sacks but had very good run stats might get him a seat at the table next year to compete with Green who has been unreliable is hardly 'love' for a player. We're just being practical and looking at the facts. He's always played better than most here act like although last year was average except for the run.

As one pointed out his salary is not insignificant and that is a problem. Perhaps he'll take a pay cut although his current salary is not too much for a starting RT.
 

Nightman

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This is all or nothing thinking.

Saying Free's play dropped off last year but he still only gave up 9 sacks but had very good run stats might get him a seat at the table next year to compete with Green who has been unreliable is hardly 'love' for a player. We're just being practical and looking at the facts. He's always played better than most here act like although last year was average except for the run.

As one pointed out his salary is not insignificant and that is a problem. Perhaps he'll take a pay cut although his current salary is not too much for a starting RT.
Excuses....his play bad play jumps off the screen

There is no good reason to keep throwing snaps and money away over Doug Free
 

Verdict

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This is all or nothing thinking.

Saying Free's play dropped off last year but he still only gave up 9 sacks but had very good run stats might get him a seat at the table next year to compete with Green who has been unreliable is hardly 'love' for a player. We're just being practical and looking at the facts. He's always played better than most here act like although last year was average except for the run.

As one pointed out his salary is not insignificant and that is a problem. Perhaps he'll take a pay cut although his current salary is not too much for a starting RT.

I'll even go as far to say that Free might be good enough at his current salary to make it through the year ok. But I don't think that is a very good gamble. The value of the line isn't one player, it is its function as a unit. Free already has to have help and that isn't likely to get better. If Free's play declines to the point that he nullifies the biggest asset we have (the function of the offensive line as a whole----and out offense in general) then that is a steep price to pay.

All of this discussion is projection and opinion, obviously, but I think Free is a much bigger liability than most here would like to admit. Green may be the answer to the Free debate, but it sure wouldn't hurt my feelings to force Free to take a paycut and/or obtain a replacement for Free in the draft. Of course this year isn't a likely opportunity to do that because this depth isn't reportedly strong on OL candidates.
 

jobberone

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Excuses....his play bad play jumps off the screen

There is no good reason to keep throwing snaps and money away over Doug Free

Your tired old 'excuses' response when I gave you facts and pointed out your cognitive distortion.....ok. The jump off the screen objective criteria gambit...... If that's all you got then adios.
 

Idgit

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Free is the type of player that a team like the Patriots would try to move on from before the bottom falls out for him. If he is as valuable as you say he is, a team should be willing to give up say a third rounder to obtain a player off of the most dominant line in all of pro football, right?

I didn't say he's 'that valuable.' I said he's valuable enough that the team is going to concentrate it's limited resources elsewhere. But, hey, if an affordable clear upgrade presents itself, we'd be nuts not to take a look. That's unlikely to happen.

And no team is obviously getting a 3rd rounder for Doug Free. The Patriots wouldn't either. He's not Chandler Jones. He's a versatile but aging starter who's about to enter the phase in his career where he becomes a vet backup.
 

jobberone

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I'll even go as far to say that Free might be good enough at his current salary to make it through the year ok. But I don't think that is a very good gamble. The value of the line isn't one player, it is its function as a unit. Free already has to have help and that isn't likely to get better. If Free's play declines to the point that he nullifies the biggest asset we have (the function of the offensive line as a whole----and out offense in general) then that is a steep price to pay.

All of this discussion is projection and opinion, obviously, but I think Free is a much bigger liability than most here would like to admit. Green may be the answer to the Free debate, but it sure wouldn't hurt my feelings to force Free to take a paycut and/or obtain a replacement for Free in the draft. Of course this year isn't a likely opportunity to do that because this depth isn't reportedly strong on OL candidates.

I'm all for replacing Free with something better. In fact many positions could be updated IMO. It's just unlikely to happen given all the constraints. I agree and said so that his salary is not out of line for a starting RT. His play in pass protection was average and most here don't like it. Neither do I. I'm not too worried about his play getting worse but it's a possibility. I don't like paying 7.5m for an average RT. Maybe this year he gets replaced.
 

GhostOfPelluer

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I admit the Free we saw the last half of 2016 was a below average pass blocker and average-to-slightly above average run blocker. He actually played worse as the season progressed, so either he was hiding an injury or is about done. He could use an upgrade, but if he's starting this season he's not overpaid. I hope Green is healthy and earns the job, but I wouldn't go cutting Free until you have a replacement lined up. If we end up signing a few guys and need the money, then I could sing a different tune, but I don't see that happening.
 

Nightman

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Your tired old 'excuses' response when I gave you facts and pointed out your cognitive distortion.....ok. The jump off the screen objective criteria gambit...... If that's all you got then adios.
Nice try Jobber......you have no facts....he is one of the worst RTs in the league and one of the most expensive...........he was top 5 in pressures allowed and is constantly late, off balance and chasing DEs

He can't handle the bull rush or the speed rush...........but keep cheerleading....its a good look for you
 
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