QB sacks under Phillips' teams

[SteamedSoup]

I'd be curious to see it broken down between when he was the head coach, managing the team as a whole on Sunday, and when he was the coordinator actually calling the plays.

Or did he call plays when he was the head coach in Denver or Buffalo? I don't recall paying attention to either team too much back then.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

I'd be curious to see it broken down between when he was the head coach, managing the team as a whole on Sunday, and when he was the coordinator actually calling the plays.

Or did he call plays when he was the head coach in Denver or Buffalo? I don't recall paying attention to either team too much back then.

That would be useful. I ain't doing it. I am coming back with a pts/per season analysis...

 

[burmafrd]

Sacks BY themselves are not that important. If A QB goes back to pass 30 times in a game and is sacked 4 times- which over a season equals 64 sacks- its more important what happens the other 26 times. If he is not getting good pressure, those 4 sacks will mean nothing since he has carved you up. ON THE other hand, if you only got 2 sacks, but pressured him 10 other times, then he probably got picked once or twice as well, and threw other bad passes that were not completed. QB pressure overall is MUCH more important then a few sacks unaccompanied by other pressures.

 

[Doomsday101]

I want to see Dallas put pressure on the QB and get sacks but what I do not want to see is Dallas getting gashed in the running game. In the NFC East with Washington, NY and to a certain extent Philly you better be able to control the running game.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

Sacks BY themselves are not that important. If A QB goes back to pass 30 times in a game and is sacked 4 times- which over a season equals 64 sacks- its more important what happens the other 26 times. If he is not getting good pressure, those 4 sacks will mean nothing since he has carved you up. ON THE other hand, if you only got 2 sacks, but pressured him 10 other times, then he probably got picked once or twice as well, and threw other bad passes that were not completed. QB pressure overall is MUCH more important then a few sacks unaccompanied by other pressures.

Tough to analyze QB pressure so we use what we got. I believe it's Yakuza Rich who argues here pretty convincingly that QB sacks correlate pretty well with wins IIRC.

 

[Dat mans bro]

Nice research FanfromVirginia. Impressive (BTW, what site did you use?)

What I'd like to know is how WP ranks in D in all major categories in addition to the sacks such as:

Yards per carry
Rushing TD's
Passing Yards allowed per game
TD passes allowed per game
Fumbles Recovered
Interceptions
Plays of more than 20+yards given up.

Seeing ranks in all that would give everyone the perspective they need to embrace this hire and forget about Norv.

If what I have read already is any indication, I believe his D will be in the top half of the league in all of these in most years unless there it was an injury filled year.

Which begs the question, what factors led to his exit from the playoffs 3 times or only securing the wildcard? Was it purely his offense and his selection of QB's?

 

[fanfromvirginia]

First off great research on your part. Secondly, did you see if those sack numbers correlated into less points allowed?

Okay, I've gone through it.

In terms of points allowed, WP's Ds are on average good. In 25 seasons, his D's have averaged 19.3 points per game allowed. In 9/25 seasons, the points allowed has been between 300 and 340, which implies consistency to me. He has had some very successful seasons (5 seasons of 267/season or less) and some quite bad seasons ( 6 seasons of 374/season or more).

 

[CaptainAmerica]

you forgot Bryce Paup in Buffalo...he had a couple of monster yrs...I think he was player of the yr or something one yr as well

the guy coaches pass rush

David

I thought of Paup also. 17 sacks that year, I believe.

Also, I recall Vela's blog one time mentioning that he researched SB defenses and the number of sacks was a consistent measure of a success. I don't recall the exact numbers but Vela basically pointed out the stats that proved if a defense isn't good at sacking the QB, they aren't going to be around late into January/early February.

 

[burmafrd]

That is true, but I also recall some teams that got 60+ sacks and just how many of them made it to the SB. You know we did that a couple of times in the 80s. Most SB teams have sack totals in the 40's.

 

[sonnyboy]

Football has become a passing game.
This trend started in 1978 when they instituted the 5 yard rule.

You look at Football in the mid 1970's and its unrecognizable.
A 2-1 and sometimes 3-1 run pass ratio was the norm.

Players are bigger, stronger and most importantly faster.
The field has maintained it's dimensions....still 53 yards wide.

The new rules starting in 1978, to promote passing has been an attempt to stretch the field vertically.

You still need to run the ball and you still need to stop the run no doubt.
However, unlike say 1975, you can no longer consistently move the ball running. You can no longer score points running.

Balance is important. You must run the ball.
However, teams now run the ball to keep their QB healthy and improve the effeciency of their passing game.

Most successful defenses defeat the opponents passing game.
They do this with consistent pressure.

What's most important in todays game is having an elite QB and a defense that defeats the opponents passing game.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

A ranking of 10th could be good or bad. If their secondary is as bad as it is claimed to be, 10th might very well be a nice accomplishment.

that's it right there

 

[sonnyboy]

Here are some other things that have promoted passing.

Liberalization of the OL holding rule (holding is now legal on pass plays).
I remember when you would see as many holding calls on runs as passes.
Now it seems like 75% of the holding calls occur on running plays.
You have to grab a jersey and tackle the defender to get called now.

Now more head slaps.

Roughing the QB rules.

All of this has made it easier to pass.

I have no problem with my D giving up 4-4.3 yards a rush.
I have no problem giving up a some long pass plays.

As long as the defense is penetrating and creating negative plays.
Sacks, tackles for loss, and turnovers.
These are the things that stop drives and set up your own O with good field position.

Inside the redzone is where you go back to more conventional D.
A stop the run first D or at least a balance between the two.
You can do this because you now have less field to defend.

 

[Doomsday101]

Football has become a passing game.
This trend started in 1978 when they instituted the 5 yard rule.

You look at Football in the mid 1970's and its unrecognizable.
A 2-1 and sometimes 3-1 run pass ratio was the norm.

Players are bigger, stronger and most importantly faster.
The field has maintained it's dimensions....still 53 yards wide.

The new rules starting in 1978, to promote passing has been an attempt to stretch the field vertically.

You still need to run the ball and you still need to stop the run no doubt.
However, unlike say 1975, you can no longer consistently move the ball running. You can no longer score points running.

Balance is important. You must run the ball.
However, teams now run the ball to keep their QB healthy and improve the effeciency of their passing game.

Most successful defenses defeat the opponents passing game.
They do this with consistent pressure.

What's most important in todays game is having an elite QB and a defense that defeats the opponents passing game.

And yet teams making it to the show are teams who have the ability to run the ball with consistency. I agree the passing game is important but running the ball is still a big part of getting to the top and thus stopping the run is also a big part. If a team is averaging over 4 yards a carry against you they do not need to put the ball up and risk having passes int or batted down or sacks, if you can run it helps with play-action as you freeze the LB and Safeties. The game of football has not changed that much.

 

[joseephuss]

I'd rather have 61 sacks and be 10th in "yards" than be 1st in yards and allow QB's an eternity to throw

we've been down this road havent we?

yards are impacted by alot of things...sometimes yards are yielded because your way ahead and the other team is forced to throw down after down...sacks dont always tell the whole story, but over time its a measure that you are getting good pressure on the QB, and normally that means more interceptions too...and when you can rush the passer, you can get off the field on 3rd downs and dont usually blow alot of late leads

David

Obviously a crack on the 2003 defense. The one that was 3rd in fewest points allowed, which was pretty good. Probably one of the best stats to judge a defense. It was one of the top defenses on 3rd down. It did pressure the QB, but just did not get a lot of sacks. The team would have been good if it had a decent offense. I will root for Phillips, but it still takes talent and players to execute. Maybe the young guys and there are a lot of them on the defense will step up and improve with experience.

 

[Duane]

Okay, I've gone through it.

In terms of points allowed, WP's Ds are on average good. In 25 seasons, his D's have averaged 19.3 points per game allowed. In 9/25 seasons, the points allowed has been between 300 and 340, which implies consistency to me. He has had some very successful seasons (5 seasons of 267/season or less) and some quite bad seasons ( 6 seasons of 374/season or more).

Thanks for going back and getting that info.

I love the idea of getting more pressure on the QB and the sacks that go along with that. I just don't want us to be stupid and give up a lot of points in doing it.

 

[joseephuss]

Football has become a passing game.
This trend started in 1978 when they instituted the 5 yard rule.

You look at Football in the mid 1970's and its unrecognizable.
A 2-1 and sometimes 3-1 run pass ratio was the norm.

Players are bigger, stronger and most importantly faster.
The field has maintained it's dimensions....still 53 yards wide.

The new rules starting in 1978, to promote passing has been an attempt to stretch the field vertically.

You still need to run the ball and you still need to stop the run no doubt.
However, unlike say 1975, you can no longer consistently move the ball running. You can no longer score points running.

Balance is important. You must run the ball.
However, teams now run the ball to keep their QB healthy and improve the effeciency of their passing game.

Most successful defenses defeat the opponents passing game.
They do this with consistent pressure.

What's most important in todays game is having an elite QB and a defense that defeats the opponents passing game.

The field has changed. At least the interior of the field.

The hash marks were moved closer together in 1972 to promote more room for the passing game.

The goal posts were moved to the back of the endzone in 1974. Now they were no longer in the way of receivers running across the middle.

Another rule change that helped the passing game occured in 1974 when rollblocking or cutting receivers was outlawed.

 

[Doomsday101]

The field has changed. At least the interior of the field.

The hash marks were moved closer together in 1972 to promote more room for the passing game.

The goal posts were moved to the back of the endzone in 1974. Now they were no longer in the way of receivers running across the middle.

Another rule change that helped the passing game occured in 1974 when rollblocking or cutting receivers was outlawed.

And yet the big passing teams have not been the teams winning the SB. Even the Colts running game played a big part in getting to the SB. No doubt the NFL changed some rules to make the passing game a bigger part but it still seems to be the teams that can run as well as pass that are making it to the top.

 

[burmafrd]

Show me one pass happy/ lousy running team that has won a SB.

 

[joseephuss]

And yet the big passing teams have not been the teams winning the SB. Even the Colts running game played a big part in getting to the SB. No doubt the NFL changed some rules to make the passing game a bigger part but it still seems to be the teams that can run as well as pass that are making it to the top.

I was just showing rules that were implemented to try and improve the passing game. Not stating an opinion of whether passing is the way to win. I agree that a strong running game is what makes the difference between teams. The rules themselves have just made passing easier or at least more efficient. Completion percentage is up and interceptions are down across the board. Every franchise that was around prior to the 70s passes the ball more efficiently now. They still need to run it better to win championships.

 

[Doomsday101]

I was just showing rules that were implemented to try and improve the passing game. Not stating an opinion of whether passing is the way to win. I agree that a strong running game is what makes the difference between teams. The rules themselves have just made passing easier or at least more efficient. Completion percentage is up and interceptions are down across the board. Every franchise that was around prior to the 70s passes the ball more efficiently now. They still need to run it better to win championships.

I agree with your assesment.