Question: Safety Conundrum

[YosemiteSam]

Mike Hamlin has hardly played at all since joining the Cowboys and the short time that he did play, he didn't really show any real WOW factor. Watkins has been on the team primary as a special teams guy, but has played some safety although he hasn't excelled at it. Watkins basically has kept him job because he is a safety that excels on special teams. Playing a dual role plus the fact that we haven't had another play making safety has allowed him to keep his job.

Today we have three new safeties on the team that are showing a lot of promise.

• Barry Church
• Danny McCray
• AOA

AOA:

AOA probably has the most upside of the three, but due to an injury we knew he had when we drafted hasn't had a chance to show a whole lot. Combine his upside and the fact that he was drafted in the 4th round. There is no way he isn't on the opening day 53 man roster, but the question is at who's expense? I think the release of Ken Hamlin sorted that one out.​

Barry Church:

Barry has shown that he is always around the ball and has the ability to make a big play. He is still a little green, but you can't ignore his production on the field. IMO, he is in direct competition with Mike Hamlin and Pat Watkins for a spot on the roster as a backup safety. He cannot compete with Watkins effectiveness on special teams and Watkins also has several years of NFL experience at safety. You just can't ignore that, although it in no way ensure job security. As noted above, Mike Hamlin so far has only really shown that he can get injured. The real question here is what do the Cowboys really think of Mike Hamlin vs what they are seeing from Barry Church?​

Danny McCray:

Basically McCray is a special teams wizard. If you were to combine Barry Church's safety skills and Danny McCray's special teams skills and speed, we would be saying Pat Who? From the little I've seen in these preseason games, I think McCray is better at special teams coverage than Watkins. He just gets down the field in a hurry. The problem is Watkins is an experienced safety and that is something I don't think McCray can overcome to displace Pat Watkins. I'm not even sure he can displace Mike Hamlin, though Hamlin has two games to prove that thought to be true. So far he hasn't proved anything and in a lot of ways has reminded me of Ken Hamlin.​

So, the question is:

Can Barry Church or Danny McCray unseat either Pat Watkins or last years 5th round pick Mike Hamlin (or both!) for a roster spot?​

My thoughts are:

IMO, if one of the incumbent safeties is to lose their job, Mike Hamlin is the safety that is on the hot seat. A player has to show he belongs and Watkins has shown he can play safety if needed and do a decent job of it and he has also shown to be a great special teams player. The score is 2-0 in favor of Pat Watkins over Mike Hamlin. One thing I do know, is I would love to be a fly on the wall when the Cowboys staff is discussing the safety situation!

With there being other ST players at other positions that can fill in at ST, I think Barry Church is the most likely to make the team over Danny McCray even though I think it would be huge to have a player like McCray on ST.

My best guess would be AOA takes Ken Hamlins spot and if both incumbent safeties (Watkins and Hamlin) aren't kept, Barry Church takes Mike Hamlin's roster spot. If McCray makes the team it will be at the expense of a different position.

 

[baj1dallas]

Well we'll find out a little about Hamlin this weekend. We need to see that he can not make major mistakes in coverage, and also tackle fairly well. For whatever reason Sensy seems to get banged up (probably due to flinging himself around) so whoever the primary backup is, we have to be able to count on him at least filling in for a game if Sensy is out and not making major mistakes.

 

[zrinkill]

Watkins needs to be gone ..... he had his shot.

 

[igtmfo]

Wade said he liked plays McCray made against the run the other night.

So that gives McCray a little better chance to make the team, if they can put him x-number of plays a game on short yardage and red zone.

Like you I'm waiting for Hamlin to shine. If he's doing it now it's under the radar for sure.

It's going to be a tough cut-down day.

 

[baj1dallas]

Watkins needs to be gone ..... he had his shot.

Even if the other guys are worse than him, you still want him gone?

 

[zrinkill]

Even if the other guys are worse than him, you still want him gone?

I do not believe they are.

 

[Doomsday101]

I have to say I like our situation at Safety right now. Granted there is a long way to go but Ball looks like he will be just fine and I think we will some good depth behind Ball and Sensabaugh

 

[YosemiteSam]

I have to say I like our situation at Safety right now. Granted there is a long way to go but Ball looks like he will be just fine and I think we will some good depth behind Ball and Sensabaugh

Considering how weak the Cowboys were at safety for a time, it's refreshing to have so many possibilities at safety now.

I'm probably most excited about AOA in about 1-2 years down the road. I think he has the talent and physical make up to be the best safety on the team.

 

[baj1dallas]

I do not believe they are.

Do you really think you're seen enough to know for sure? You're that confident of your scouting ability based on 3 preseason games where neither has gone up against first teamers?

 

[Doomsday101]

Considering how weak the Cowboys were at safety for a time, it's refreshing to have so many possibilities at safety now.

I'm probably most excited about AOA in about 1-2 years down the road. I think he has the talent and physical make up to be the best safety on the team.

As do I but given the missed time I think he will be very limited this season in the meantime we have some young guys who are showing they have good ability to play the position and with Ball focused on safety not splitting his time he looks more comfortable back there.

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

Do you really think you're seen enough to know for sure? You're that confident of your scouting ability based on 3 preseason games where neither has gone up against first teamers?

Watkins has stuck around solely because of his special teams ability.

We've signed free agents and drafted players to fill in at safety, because obviously Watkins isn't/wasn't up to the task.

He's done here.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Watkins is a goner for sure IMO. If nothing else, McCray is making the same plays he'd make on special teams, and is younger and cheaper.

On the others, people have very short memories. Hamlin got high grades from the coaches -- Wade, Campo, and Maxie -- last year, but he broke his arm and was out for a while. That doesn't mean he can't play. Broaddus said this morning that he was having a very good camp in San Antonio, it's just that Alan Ball played so well that he won that job.

And you have to remember that Hamlin was a strong safety until Ken Ham was cut, so that's probably his better position. And he knows the system well. There's a reason they immediately made him the starter at strong when Sensabaugh got hurt.

I like Church, too, and he's so big that he's going to be good against the run, but I hope he's agile enough to cover. Roy Williams, anyone?

 

[baj1dallas]

Watkins has stuck around solely because of his special teams ability.

We've signed free agents and drafted players to fill in at safety, because obviously Watkins isn't/wasn't up to the task.

He's done here.

I hope you are right of course but I'm not penciling Hamlin in until I see that he can play fairly well against Houston this weekend. If he can get the job done without a whole lot of major mistakes, then I'm all for cutting Watkins. I'm not convinced yet though because he hasn't actually done it before. You definitely have to hope that he will though.

 

[Hostile]

I would move AOA to CB and keep 5 safeties and 5 CBs.

 

[Doomsday101]

Watkins is a goner for sure IMO. If nothing else, McCray is making the same plays he'd make on special teams, and is younger and cheaper.

On the others, people have very short memories. Hamlin got high grades from the coaches -- Wade, Campo, and Maxie -- last year, but he broke his arm and was out for a while. That doesn't mean he can't play. Broaddus said this morning that he was having a very good camp in San Antonio, it's just that Alan Ball played so well that he won that job.

And you have to remember that Hamlin was a strong safety until Ken Ham was cut, so that's probably his better position. And he knows the system well. There's a reason they immediately made him the starter at strong when Sensabaugh got hurt.

I like Church, too, and he's so big that he's going to be good against the run, but I hope he's agile enough to cover. Roy Williams, anyone?

Thing with Church is I keep hearing coaches and those covering the games saying the knock on Church was his coverage ability coming out of college yet the same people have been saying that he has been doing a good job in camp in coverage.

 

[Idgit]

Even if the other guys are worse than him, you still want him gone?

I would let Watkins go, yes. Not so sure the other guys are worse than he is on defense. And McCray's very close to making the team as a special teamer. Watkins isn't going to get a next contract anyway, so you let him walk when you find talent that shows promise at his position. It's pretty much a no-brainer.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Thing with Church is I keep hearing coaches and those covering the games saying the knock on Church was his coverage ability coming out of college yet the same people have been saying that he has been doing a good job in camp in coverage.

What I heard about him is his speed is above 4.4 which would make him a coverage liability if he had to cover a speedy receiver deep. Of course you can protect him from that, but that limits how you can play your defense.

I completely disagree with everyone saying Pat Watkins is gone. While in the end I suspect he will be gone, I just don't think they can't afford to lose both an experienced safety and a ST ace. You can replace the safety or the ST, but no single player replaces both. This is a big reason why Cory Proctor hung around so long. He played both guard and center. It is a huge boon when you get one guy that can do both and excel at one of them. (ST for Watkins)

So ask yourself. Would you rather replace a ST ace who has four years of NFL safety experience (Watkins) with a ST ace that you can't trust at safety? (McCray) Or an undrafted rookie safety that isn't a ST ace and you still arn't completely sure you can trust at safety?

It would be hard for me not to keep Watkins. The player I replace Watkins with would have to be a superior safety. Barry Church could be, but thus far I know McCray isn't.

 

[zrinkill]

I would let Watkins go, yes. Not so sure the other guys are worse than he is on defense. And McCray's very close to making the team as a special teamer. Watkins isn't going to get a next contract anyway, so you let him walk when you find talent that shows promise at his position. It's pretty much a no-brainer.

This ......

 

[YosemiteSam]

I would let Watkins go, yes. Not so sure the other guys are worse than he is on defense. And McCray's very close to making the team as a special teamer. Watkins isn't going to get a next contract anyway, so you let him walk when you find talent that shows promise at his position. It's pretty much a no-brainer.

Thats crazy talk. You weaken your team just because you don't want Watkins?

I'm sorry, but I'm damn happy you aren't making the decisions! :laugh2:

 

[zrinkill]

Do you really think you're seen enough to know for sure?

Of Watkins yes ....

You seem to be incredibly reluctant to give any of these new kids a chance at the expense of guys who have already proven they do not have what it takes to be a starter .....

Its a young mans sport if you are not a starter.