"Balance" has ruined this offense and the season

[Yakuza Rich]

You also have to have enough WRs to run that much. Generally you are going deep with at least one and often two receivers on a pass play. If they can't get a little breather on the way back to the huddle then you have to platoon. We don't have the depth IMO.

I watch SU play the hurry up. They don't have a lot of depth at WR and mainly stick to 3 WR's (Lemon, Sales and West). They usually run 11 personnel. But, they rotate the RB's all of the time. I'm not exactly sure they need to do it, but the idea is to keep them fresh. But, I don't think WR depth is an issue in a hurry up offense.

What I like about the hurry up as well is that in a traditional scheme on a team where 2 tailbacks split carries, you often run into RB's that need to 'get their carries' and warmed up. So you may have 2 tailbacks and try to keep them fresh, but they can't quite get in a groove because they don't get enough carries.

In the hurry up, you'll likely have more plays in each drive and you're rotating the RB's quite a bit and they have to run to the sidelines, then run back out on the field. I think that warms them up.

I think it would be very beneficial for the O-Line. No more having trouble with the cadence. No more allowing the defense to disguise what they are doing 2-3 times pre-snap. And it gets the defense winded early. A ballcarrier runs with the ball for 20 yards, the defense still has to run hard to bring him down. The O-Line more or less gets to jog unless they have a chance to make another block downfield.

I just question if guys like Ogletree are still too stupid to screw things up.






YR

 

[Hostile]

Has anyone tried it on Madden to test the theory?

 

[RoyTheHammer]

You should post more often. Everyone wants a balance offense, but if running the ball has been ineffective, then don't continue to do it for the sake of being balanced.

You don't continue to do it for the sake of being balanced. You do it so opposing teams don't line up every play knowing they can pin their ears back and go after Tony. How do you think our OL is going to hold up when their isn't even the threat of a run play? We already wait until there is one second left on the play clock to snap the ball every play.. that gives the defensive front 7 enough of an advantage without knowing its a pass every play too. Tony would be dead by now.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

You don't continue to do it for the sake of being balanced. You do it so opposing teams don't line up every play knowing they can pin their ears back and go after Tony. How do you think our OL is going to hold up when their isn't even the threat of a run play? We already wait until there is one second left on the play clock to snap the ball every play.. that gives the defensive front 7 enough of an advantage without knowing its a pass every play too. Tony would be dead by now.

Exactly.

Plus, it has to do with the style of offense we run. This style of offense really needs the running game to be effective because when it's not, the offense is going to be poor. This is not the style of offense that can run poorly and still be pretty good or even respectable by relying heavily on the pass.

So throwing the ball all of the time in this scheme is bound for failure. It's what is happening with Norv out in San Diego. Their running game is mediocre and they can't pass effectively. But if you're like Cam Cameron in Baltimore where they have a quality running game, it opens the passing game up dramatically and allows the WR's and QB to make plays.

It doesn't have to do with conventionality, it has to do with practicality.

We need a running game where if the opponent stops it, it's because they were forced to put 8 in the box or blitz in order to do so. The Cowboys are at the opposite end of the spectrum, teams can stop our running game with 6 in the box.

Throwing almost every down is really a last resort in this offense.







YR

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Exactly.

Plus, it has to do with the style of offense we run. This style of offense really needs the running game to be effective because when it's not, the offense is going to be poor. This is not the style of offense that can run poorly and still be pretty good or even respectable by relying heavily on the pass.

So throwing the ball all of the time in this scheme is bound for failure. It's what is happening with Norv out in San Diego. Their running game is mediocre and they can't pass effectively. But if you're like Cam Cameron in Baltimore where they have a quality running game, it opens the passing game up dramatically and allows the WR's and QB to make plays.

It doesn't have to do with conventionality, it has to do with practicality.

We need a running game where if the opponent stops it, it's because they were forced to put 8 in the box or blitz in order to do so. The Cowboys are at the opposite end of the spectrum, teams can stop our running game with 6 in the box.

Throwing almost every down is really a last resort in this offense.

YR

Not to mention we already throw it twice as much as we run it and average 42 pass attempts a game so far. Not sure how much more unbalanced this offense could be.

 

[erod]

Not to mention we already throw it twice as much as we run it and average 42 pass attempts a game so far. Not sure how much more unbalanced this offense could be.

The point is, Garrett is starting games with a balanced attack, then he falls behind and scraps it. The pass attempts are heavily weighted to the second half.

With this o-line, why even bother? Come out slinging it around. The Cowboys simply can't run, period, and it might avoid 28-3 halftime deficits.

 

[Doomsday]

Arent the Cowboys and Eagles the two teams who run the least percentage of times this season?

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

The point is, Garrett is starting games with a balanced attack, then he falls behind and scraps it. The pass attempts are heavily weighted to the second half.

With this o-line, why even bother? Come out slinging it around. The Cowboys simply can't run, period, and it might avoid 28-3 halftime deficits.

^^^This. PASS to setup the RUN. It is our BEST chance to do EITHER effectively. Get the defense off balance. That is what Shanahann has done from day 1 with RG3. And they have pretty much been in every game. Look at his numbers AND the numbers of his rookie 6th round pick RB from the football powerhouse Florida Atlantic!

Running it on 1st down. Setting up 2nd and 12...keeps us behinds the chains...puts WAY to much pressure on the OL and Romo. And eventually mistakes WILL happen. I mean their was a game this year where Romo must have thrown the ball 50 times...MOST of it under duress....and all people could muster was..."I can't believe he threw 2 picks". I would love to see all these so called top 5 QBs play under these conditions. Or I saw where people pointed to the rookie from SF. If Romo went 16 for 25 for 185 yards...I promise you we would get blown out by 3 TDs. Romo does not have the luxury of throwing for under 200 yards and winning a football game. To do that you have to have a top notch defense. A team that does not get penalties. A team that forces turnovers. And a solid running game. We have NONE of the aforementioned elements on THIS team. We have lost games this year when we did NOT turn it over....we have lost games this year when we HAVE turned it over. After 11 games....the coaching staff should know the BEST approach to win games and go with it. But if they decide that we should just keep doing what we have been doing...then we might as well get ready for the draft!

 

[Yakuza Rich]

The point is, Garrett is starting games with a balanced attack, then he falls behind and scraps it. The pass attempts are heavily weighted to the second half.

With this o-line, why even bother? Come out slinging it around. The Cowboys simply can't run, period, and it might avoid 28-3 halftime deficits.

In all likelihood if you throw all of the time, even from the get-go, that eventually your passing game will stink as well. And you can get your QB killed and your defense shot.

And if we start throwing virtually every down and the passing game goes belly up, what do we do now?

To me, it's a last resort.

It's not that I completely disagree with your idea. But, I don't think it's ruined our season. I think passing every down and accepting that we can't run it from the beginning of the season would have been foolish.

What's ruined our season is awful O-Line play, a defense that can't quite stop the pass and injuries. We've also been in key situations where the HC has let us down with his playcalling and clock management.

Believe me, I'm almost there with you at this point. I think a hurry up style is a more reasonable solution. If it doesn't work, then we are probably at our wits end and have to throw almost every down to have any chance. But, we would still have to worry about Romo getting injured and ruining our 2013 season as well.






YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

^^^This. PASS to setup the RUN. It is our BEST chance to do EITHER effectively. Get the defense off balance. That is what Shanahann has done from day 1 with RG3. And they have pretty much been in every game. Look at his numbers AND the numbers of his rookie 6th round pick RB from the football powerhouse Florida Atlantic!

Running it on 1st down. Setting up 2nd and 12...keeps us behinds the chains...puts WAY to much pressure on the OL and Romo. And eventually mistakes WILL happen. I mean their was a game this year where Romo must have thrown the ball 50 times...MOST of it under duress....and all people could muster was..."I can't believe he threw 2 picks". I would love to see all these so called top 5 QBs play under these conditions. Or I saw where people pointed to the rookie from SF. If Romo went 16 for 25 for 185 yards...I promise you we would get blown out by 3 TDs. Romo does not have the luxury of throwing for under 200 yards and winning a football game. To do that you have to have a top notch defense. A team that does not get penalties. A team that forces turnovers. And a solid running game. We have NONE of the aforementioned elements on THIS team. We have lost games this year when we did NOT turn it over....we have lost games this year when we HAVE turned it over. After 11 games....the coaching staff should know the BEST approach to win games and go with it. But if they decide that we should just keep doing what we have been doing...then we might as well get ready for the draft!

I think we have tried to pass to set up the run. And we still run it terribly. We have no execution in the running game. The only thing I think that may work is a hurry up style and even then I have my doubts.






YR

 

[Lazyking]

The point is, Garrett is starting games with a balanced attack, then he falls behind and scraps it. The pass attempts are heavily weighted to the second half.

With this o-line, why even bother? Come out slinging it around. The Cowboys simply can't run, period, and it might avoid 28-3 halftime deficits.

you keep bringing up 28-3 halftime deficits without mentioning that running the ball had little to do with that. it was 7-3 Cowboys driving, Romo passes to Bryant, he fumbles, 14-3 skins. Next drive, Romo throws an INT 21-3

So stop bringing that game up as evidence.

 

[cowboysooner]

Exactly.

Plus, it has to do with the style of offense we run. This style of offense really needs the running game to be effective because when it's not, the offense is going to be poor. This is not the style of offense that can run poorly and still be pretty good or even respectable by relying heavily on the pass.

So throwing the ball all of the time in this scheme is bound for failure. It's what is happening with Norv out in San Diego. Their running game is mediocre and they can't pass effectively. But if you're like Cam Cameron in Baltimore where they have a quality running game, it opens the passing game up dramatically and allows the WR's and QB to make plays.

It doesn't have to do with conventionality, it has to do with practicality.

We need a running game where if the opponent stops it, it's because they were forced to put 8 in the box or blitz in order to do so. The Cowboys are at the opposite end of the spectrum, teams can stop our running game with 6 in the box.

Throwing almost every down is really a last resort in this offense.







YR

We run quite a bit of similar stuff as the Giants. And last year they ran the ball about like we are this year, yet they were successful because they had big plays in the passing game. Until Dez' recent mini-explosion we have not had that. I don't think we can replicate green bay or the Saints. Our depth is not at their level.

 

[xwalker]

You don't continue to do it for the sake of being balanced. You do it so opposing teams don't line up every play knowing they can pin their ears back and go after Tony.

How do you think our OL is going to hold up when their isn't even the threat of a run play?

We already wait until there is one second left on the play clock to snap the ball every play.. that gives the defensive front 7 enough of an advantage without knowing its a pass every play too. Tony would be dead by now.

I think part of the OP's point is that there is NO threat of a run play in the 2nd half of games when the Cowboys are behind on the scoreboard. Defenses are pinning-their-ears-back on every play, yet the Cowboys are able to score more than they did in the 1st half when they were "trying" to run the ball.

 

[BrassCowboy]

I'm a firm believer that the Cowboys biggest problem is the lack of ability to run the ball effectively. Having said that, if they can't run the ball, then I agree that trying to run it is a waste of down(s).

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein

.

this is exactly it, if we can't run it, then yeah we need to go with pass, but going forward in years to come we will need to fix what is broke so that we can run and have a more balanced approach. In the long run, it is more effective.

 

[Clove]

Well, I'm not going to yuck it up with scheme this and scheme that. I'm going to stick to the bottom line. And the bottom line is, Romo is near unstoppable in the hurry up. And if that's the case, that's what I want.

If it fails after 3 games, then fine. Everything else has failed.

As soon as we're behind, and Garrett puts Romo in the hurry up, Romo is basically playing like it's life or death. No time to think. He's just being instinctive. He feels the rush better, it's like he's in survival mode.

Keep the man in survival mode.

 

[goshan]

Has anyone tried it on Madden to test the theory?

Typical and expected comment from you since your sole focus is now to defend your coach at all costs. Honestly it's sort of sad since you obviously could contribute to these discussions in a more productive way.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Typical and expected comment from you since your sole focus is now to defend your coach at all costs. Honestly it's sort of sad since you obviously could contribute to these discussions in a more productive way.

What do you want him to say? The theory was ******** and we arn't going to throw the ball 100 percent of the time. The OP is lucky he got as many serious replies as he did.

 

[goshan]

What do you want him to say? The theory was ******** and we arn't going to throw the ball 100 percent of the time. The OP is lucky he got as many serious replies as he did.

Others had intelligent replies. Agree about the OP, but the comment was clearly directed at anyone trying to brainstorm on how to positively alter the offensive scheme.

 

[Bluestang]

Maybe with more elements of the "long handoff" west coast offense.....vrs the long developing vertical elements of Garrett/Zampese offense scheme's.

The WCO would help the OLine, compliment the supposed strengths of Murray and Felix.

The WCO should reduce the Pass/INT ratio, Garrett could implement more and more of those little pik/ rub routes that pop a receiver open quickly that everyone seems to use against us, with Garrett seeming hesitant to use them to any extent.

You mean pick/rub routes like this:

http://i1105.***BLOCKED***/albums/h349/Bluestang2006/WASDAL/WASDAL9.png

http://i1105.***BLOCKED***/albums/h349/Bluestang2006/WASDAL/WASDAL1.png

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Others had intelligent replies. Agree about the OP, but the comment was clearly directed at anyone trying to brainstorm on how to positively alter the offensive scheme.

Fair enough.