Rams Un-Invite Pace & Holt to Off Season Training Program

[Hostile]

Holt and Pace uninvited to Rams offseason program


Howard Balzer of Sports Xchange/CBSSports.com reports The Rams will begin their offseason conditioning program next Monday, and players expected to participate were sent letters by the team detailing the program and expectations. Holt and Pace, both under contract for 2009, did not receive the letter.

In addition, Holt has had no contact from anyone in the organization since Steve Spagnuolo was hired as head coach.

There has been speculation the Rams are attempting to trade both Holt and Pace and may ultimately release them. Holt is due a $1.25 million roster bonus on March 17th.

 

[TheCount]

No turning back now. Also a very classy way to deal with vets.

 

[jday]

Hmmm. Interesting.

I'm already a fan of the idea to acquire Holt, but...

How many people here would take Orlando Pace over Flozell Adams?

The same age and height, the only difference physically is that Flo is 15 pounds heavier. I know Pace has seen a drop off in his contribution, but we could, at least, count on him to not make so many mental errors in the form of False Starts. Or am I wrong?

 

[jobberone]

Hmmm. Interesting.

I'm already a fan of the idea to acquire Holt, but...

How many people here would take Orlando Pace over Flozell Adams?

The same age and height, the only difference physically is that Flo is 15 pounds heavier. I know Pace has seen a drop off in his contribution, but we could, at least, count on him to not make so many mental errors in the form of False Starts. Or am I wrong?

NO. I'm not really a big time supporter of Holt coming altho for the right price I'd not wig out about it. I think Dallas needs to be careful to balance long term goals with short term ones. Pace is not an upgrade to Flo and you can't just ignore the cap ramifications for it either.

 

[jterrell]

Hmmm. Interesting.

I'm already a fan of the idea to acquire Holt, but...

How many people here would take Orlando Pace over Flozell Adams?

The same age and height, the only difference physically is that Flo is 15 pounds heavier. I know Pace has seen a drop off in his contribution, but we could, at least, count on him to not make so many mental errors in the form of False Starts. Or am I wrong?

Pace has really struggled with injuries the past few years.
He missed almost all of 07.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I wouldn't have a problem with Holt but I can't see bringing in Pace as anything more than a cheap backup and I can't see him wanting to come cheap. He's not going to come here and start and have Flo, and his huge contract, sitting on the sidelines.

 

[Joe Realist]

I would be ok with Holt but at no more than 3 million for 1 year.

 

[Doomsday101]

I would not trade to get Holt if the Rams intend to release him. At that point if Dallas could bring him in great if not then stick to what we have and the draft

 

[jterrell]

A lot of talk about contract numbers and that seems a logical discussion point to me so here goes my best attempt.

3 years, 2 mil SB, 1.5 mil base(1.9,2.5 in subsequent years), 250K workout bonus.
Roster bonus next June 1st of 2 mil.
1 Mil bonus if he makes the Pro Bowl.

In reality it would be a 1 year 3.65 mil deal with a team option for that second year.

Holt has skins on the wall but is clearly declining. If he fits in here and works well in this offense he'll be rewarded with more money if not he got a far from pauper deal for the one year.

 

[cobra]

I don't see any downside whatsoever to bringing Holt here.

Holt is a great vertical WR. He runs intermediate to deep routes with exceptional skill. And, while he may have lost a bit of a step, he is still plenty fast. When Bruce was there, Bruce ran the possession routes and Holt tore up the longer routes. Last year productivity fell for a number of reasons, but one of the more important ones is that Holt was put more into a possession, chain-mover WR and Avery was given the deep routes.

It seems to me that Garrett would like to revisit the old Norv type offense. The addition of Holt would very much do this. Roy would be in the Irvin possession/chain moving mode. Witten would be in the Jay N. mode. And Holt would be a better Harper, extending the field with more deep routes.

That is one problem with Owens, he did not fit well with Roy. They are similar, not complementary. Holt would be a complementary player. Roy possession WR; Witten wrecking the middle of the field; Holt extending the field.

I like it. And I'd like to do it sooner than later to get him in here so Romo can develop chemistry with him.

Holt also could do wonders for Austin, and that is the type of WR that Austin seems to project to, in my opinion.

 

[jday]

NO. I'm not really a big time supporter of Holt coming altho for the right price I'd not wig out about it. I think Dallas needs to be careful to balance long term goals with short term ones. Pace is not an upgrade to Flo and you can't just ignore the cap ramifications for it either.

True. I wasn't really thinking about the Cap. But I do think that Pace would be an upgrade over Flozell. Flo is strong and his technique is sound, but he doesn't not deal well with the speed rush and commits far to many false starts. His lack of concentration killed one too many drives, and since, the Cowboy's missed the playoffs by one game, he very well could be pointed at costing us, at least, one game. Just something to think about.

The thing is, I'm really hoping the Cowboy's rebuild through the draft, but was just curious since we could use Holt and the Rams were looking for a deal. For instance, we could send Flo and Ellis over, provided it didn't create too much dead cap space, for Holt and Pace. A change of scenery could be what both OL need. Furthermore, the Rams will likely select an OT high in the draft, so Flo would be a good insurance policy. Even it doesn't make sense in real life I'd still do it on Madden!

 

[This is Our Year]

I don't see any downside whatsoever to bringing Holt here.

Holt is a great vertical WR. He runs intermediate to deep routes with exceptional skill. And, while he may have lost a bit of a step, he is still plenty fast. When Bruce was there, Bruce ran the possession routes and Holt tore up the longer routes. Last year productivity fell for a number of reasons, but one of the more important ones is that Holt was put more into a possession, chain-mover WR and Avery was given the deep routes.

It seems to me that Garrett would like to revisit the old Norv type offense. The addition of Holt would very much do this. Roy would be in the Irvin possession/chain moving mode. Witten would be in the Jay N. mode. And Holt would be a better Harper, extending the field with more deep routes.

That is one problem with Owens, he did not fit well with Roy. They are similar, not complementary. Holt would be a complementary player. Roy possession WR; Witten wrecking the middle of the field; Holt extending the field.

I like it. And I'd like to do it sooner than later to get him in here so Romo can develop chemistry with him.

Holt also could do wonders for Austin, and that is the type of WR that Austin seems to project to, in my opinion.

Hell, after reading that sign me up. Sounds like a good idea to me if the price is right.

 

[FLCowboyFan]

Hell, after reading that sign me up. Sounds like a good idea to me if the price is right.

Got me convinced as well :laugh1:

 

[silver]

I like Holt and think he can still contribute and present problems for opposing defenses. Having said that isn't contradictory to say he's lost a step and still be able to stretch the field? Comparing him with what TO was 3 years ago, Holt would have more precise route running ability, better hands, but not quite as explosive.

 

[theebs]

I like Holt and think he can still contribute and present problems for opposing defenses. Having said that isn't contradictory to say he's lost a step and still be able to stretch the field? Comparing him with what TO was 3 years ago, Holt would have more precise route run ability, better hands, but not quite as explosive.

Holt's Precision and hands matched with romo's accuracy and ability to read a defense seem like a natural fit. throw in the similar offense and the judd garrett connection and it is not hard to see how he could come here.

I just think he might be expensive and have alot of people interested in his services. he is an actual adult and doesnt have baggage. I wonder where the eagles stand on him? having shipped of greg lewis he may be of interest to them.

 

[Big Dakota]

No turning back now. Also a very classy way to deal with vets.

Especially ring of honor type guys. Pace may be the best OL in franchise history next to Jackie Slater and Holt holds many receiving records.

 

[dallasfaniac]

I remember when Holt went off on Linehan everyone was stunned, because that's just not something he does.

 

[cobra]

Having said that isn't contradictory to say he's lost a step and still be able to stretch the field?

Not at all.

It's all relative.

I read somewhere that Holt ran a 4.34 40 at the Combine. He is a bit slower than that. But he is still PLENTY FAST to be a deep threat. Hell, he'd be our fastest WR as soon as we signed him, with the probably exception of Miles Austin. (Holt's 40 time was faster than Austin's at the combine, but the lost step surely would leave Austin as faster).

But speed is just one component on being a good deep threat. Knowing how to make double moves and find spaces are important skills, and those are skills that Holt has a Hall of Fame ability to do.

 

[Tusan_Homichi]

You would think they would find a better way of telling these guys that they don't have a future with the team considering how big a part of that franchise they've been.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Not at all.

It's all relative.

I read somewhere that Holt ran a 4.34 40 at the Combine. He is a bit slower than that. But he is still PLENTY FAST to be a deep threat. Hell, he'd be our fastest WR as soon as we signed him, with the probably exception of Miles Austin. (Holt's 40 time was faster than Austin's at the combine, but the lost step surely would leave Austin as faster).

But speed is just one component on being a good deep threat. Knowing how to make double moves and find spaces are important skills, and those are skills that Holt has a Hall of Fame ability to do.

Unless the route is a go then a deep route is much more than just speed anyway. Holt is one of the best route runners of the past decade.