Random draft thoughts, including: running a draft must be a hellish, 24-hour job

[igtmfo]

- Ciskowski decided in the offseason to spend less time evaluating small-school players .. He read a stat, if I can remember his quote, that maybe 97-plus percent of players in the league are from D-I, Bowl Division to boot (That is, the old D-IA as opposed to D-IAA and lower). So players from Monmouth like Miles Austin, ... or from Lane College or someplace, prolly won't get a call from us, at least until after the draft ...

- In the war room, the Boys' philosophy is to sell picks rather than buy them (Quoting Jerry, I think, they "take calls, not make calls"). So Jerry and son won't try to orchestrate a big trade on the clock. They let the action come to them, rarely making calls except to jump up a few spots when they get nervous.

- It's amazing to consider that among a million variables, that the Cowboys draft room and other war rooms too I'm sure, factor in which players, even in the mid rounds, that might not drop to them because some other team will pick that player ahead of them, around the spot where they are picking. A la Chris Canty, because the Pats had interest in him a few years back, we traded up to get him, one pick (?) before the Pat's pick. ... Now, in the first round, I can understand how we would know this ... but it's amazing that we/other teams factor in which other teams want to beat them to the punch in the second/third/fourth round for a given player. My question for all of you is: HOW DO THEY KNOW THIS?? ... It's like there was an unspoken treaty that all teams really grade players about the same, and they only differ on the pet cats/team need in a given round. So I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine (in a deal that is). It's spooky, don't you think?

- Agents you don't want to deal with. This is another factor in the equation.

- Sheer character and competitive qualities of the draftee may be supreme now, lifting them a couple of rounds in value above their athleticism/combine and college performance/stats .... as rated by draft pundits nowadays anyway. Choice, Scandrick and Deon Anderson come to mind.

- You want to pick some players that will replace guys on current roster that will become free agents the following season (Newman will be UFA, will a CB, even Newman, be worth franchising?)

- FWIW, this draft is overall weak accd. to PFW's Nolan Nawrocki

- A decade passes without finding a starting OL or WR in the draft. A payback for picking the T. Romo four-leaf clover.

 

[dbair1967]

-

Ciskowski decided in the offseason to spend less time evaluating small-school players .. He read a stat, if I can remember his quote, that maybe 97-plus percent of players in the league are from D-I, Bowl Division to boot (That is, the old D-IA as opposed to D-IAA and lower). So players from Monmouth like Miles Austin, ... or from Lane College or someplace, prolly won't get a call from us, at least until after the draft ...

Where did you hear this?

- You want to pick some players that will replace guys on current roster that will become free agents the following season (Newman will be UFA, will a CB, even Newman, be worth franchising?)

huh? he signed a long term deal last yr.

- FWIW, this draft is overall weak accd. to PFW's Nolan Nawrocki

Yeah I agree with that.

- A decade passes without finding a starting OL or WR in the draft. A payback for picking the T. Romo four-leaf clover.

Andre Gurode is a probowl C, Antonio Bryant is a starting WR and a very good one (and he started here too). We probably gave up on Stephen Peterman too soon, he is a dependable starter in Detroit now and just signed a long term deal there.

 

[dallasfaniac]

I don't think figuring out what players other teams are targetting is as mystifying as you make out. The first step is figuring out team needs, then figuring out what types of players fit their particular mold, see who they have sent scouts looking or brought in for workouts, where the players went to school, perhaps look over their history of drafting etc.

Armed with this information on draft day, when your pick starts rolling around and a player drops near your range, you can pretty much tell which teams may show interest and whether you should jump them.

On top of that, other teams may contact you knowing that you desire a particular player and that their research shows that a team behind them wants the player too so if you want them, gotta act fast.

It's not rocket surgery.

 

[igtmfo]

Where did you hear this? (Ciskowski cutting small-school scouting that is)

Absolutely certain that I read it, DMN blog I think.

huh? (Newman) signed a long term deal last yr.

Dam, KFFL has him in Cowboys list of UFAs for 2010. My bad that I don't follow contracts, or not interested enough in Newman either. So we don't have any expiring contracts to worry about next year, sorry. But the point stands of course. (Why did we pay Newman so much?)

Andre Gurode is a probowl C, Antonio Bryant is a starting WR and a very good one (and he started here too). We probably gave up on Stephen Peterman too soon, he is a dependable starter in Detroit now and just signed a long term deal there.

Gurode I stand corrected. Bryant is cheating though. First off, any scout that might have championed either has likely left the front office, and scouting was pretty poor then anyway. Only Juleff and Ciskowski (maybe Fabianich or Wojciechowski too?) to my knowledge remain from seven long years ago .... A blind squirrel might have found, and cut, Peterman or Bryant. Peterman never ventured outside the Jacuzzi while he was here. Bryant was a journeyman before he perked up in TB, who knows what inspired him.

 

[igtmfo]

Sorry to be longwinded, but another remarkable thing about draft day IMO:

Jerry and other GMs have players ranked, slotted etc., not just by talent, but by some mysterious way they know, to quote Jerry several times: "It was too early to take him here ..." (in this particular round)... regardless that he was about the best player left on their board .. Do what?

OK, so he was worthy of a second round pick on their board, but somehow Jerry & Co. had some knowledge that other teams would let him fall a round or so and that (this particular guy) would still be available? How in God's name did Jerry (or other teams) know this? ... Shouldn't you take the best player left on your board, regardless of his pedigree? How do you know what other teams think of him, anyway? Isn't this a big game of "chicken"?

So often this guy DOES in fact slide another half-round or round when he's the consensus best player left ...

I know there is some kind of common NFL scouting service, or used to be (Blesko or Blesto or something) ... but to KNOW (pretty sure anyway) that other teams will let a certain guy slip, right into your lap, borders on the ghostly.

 

[dbair1967]

(Why did we pay Newman so much?)

because he's a damn good CB and one of the top 4 or 5 at his position

Gurode I stand corrected. Bryant is cheating though. First off, any scout that might have championed either has likely left the front office, and scouting was pretty poor then anyway. Only Juleff and Ciskowski (maybe Fabianich or Wojciechowski too?) to my knowledge remain from seven long years ago .... A blind squirrel might have found, and cut, Peterman or Bryant. Peterman never ventured outside the Jacuzzi while he was here. Bryant was a journeyman before he perked up in TB, who knows what inspired him.

Bryant showed alot of talent here and had a couple of good seasons, then had the run in with Parcells and they got rid of him. But he was an exceptional talent.

And you said they went a decade without finding any starting OL's, and Peterman does start and is a dependable player that Detroit likes now. He didnt work out here, but he only got 2 seasons I believe. I think its safe to say had we kept him, he'd have played better than Proctor at LG last yr.

 

[AdamJT13]

- It's amazing to consider that among a million variables, that the Cowboys draft room and other war rooms too I'm sure, factor in which players, even in the mid rounds, that might not drop to them because some other team will pick that player ahead of them, around the spot where they are picking. A la Chris Canty, because the Pats had interest in him a few years back, we traded up to get him, one pick (?) before the Pat's pick. ... Now, in the first round, I can understand how we would know this ... but it's amazing that we/other teams factor in which other teams want to beat them to the punch in the second/third/fourth round for a given player. My question for all of you is: HOW DO THEY KNOW THIS?? ... It's like there was an unspoken treaty that all teams really grade players about the same, and they only differ on the pet cats/team need in a given round. So I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine (in a deal that is). It's spooky, don't you think?

Aside from the two scouting services (BLESTO and National) that take input from the teams involved, combine it and distribute it back to each team involved, teams pay attention to every bit of information they can find, including mock drafts and player rankings. (Not every schmuck's mock draft and rankings, of course, but some of the major ones.) They have someone who checks the media reports from each team every day to see which positions and players other teams are looking at. And of course, they talk to the players, agents and each other. With all of that information, they should be able to figure out the consensus rankings for most players. That doesn't mean there won't be any outliers, but teams can't build their plan around those -- unless THEY are one of the outliers.

- FWIW, this draft is overall weak accd. to PFW's Nolan Nawrocki

In a draft forum on another board, there was a thread discussing whether this was the worst draft in a long time, or whether 2005 was worse. Most people said 2005 was worse, especially at the top of the draft.

And who did we get in 2005? Only DeMarcus Ware, Marion Barber, Jay Ratliff, Marcus Spears, Chris Canty and Kevin Burnett -- an All-Pro, two other Pro Bowl players, two solid starters and a key backup. It's like we found all of the diamonds in the poopoo.

 

[BAT]

- Ciskowski decided in the offseason to spend less time evaluating small-school players .. He read a stat, if I can remember his quote, that maybe 97-plus percent of players in the league are from D-I, Bowl Division to boot (That is, the old D-IA as opposed to D-IAA and lower). So players from Monmouth like Miles Austin, ... or from Lane College or someplace, prolly won't get a call from us, at least until after the draft ...

I really hope this "quote" from Ciskowski is out of context. The first day of the draft is the easy part, most teams have a consensus on the best players and how they rank.

You earn your money on the second day, uneathing gems from big AND small schools. If this is anywhere near truth, then it makes sense why the Chargers' Smith (actually it his ace Buddy Nix) is so good at finding "unknown" talent. There is a reason why the Chargers draft so well, so consistently, it is b/c they study everything & anything, there is no offseason for scouting.

 

[arglebargle]

In 2005 we had the best draft of any team in the NFL that year, top to bottom. I wonder if Goose graded us out as a C or D that year....

Somewhere I saw a reference to Cowboys' drafting strategy in the later rounds that said 'The Cowboys tended to target players in the later rounds (5th to 7th?) who excelled at one thing.' I try and keep that in mind while looking at the lower end of the draft.

Of course, planning anything mockish in the third round or greater is just an exercise in football whimsy.


edit: Apparantly, Goose gave us an A for the 2005 draft: There goes that rant.....

 

[dbair1967]

I really hope this "quote" from Ciskowski is out of context. The first day of the draft is the easy part, most teams have a consensus on the best players and how they rank.

You earn your money on the second day, uneathing gems from big AND small schools. If this is anywhere near truth, then it makes sense why the Chargers' Smith (actually it his ace Buddy Nix) is so good at finding "unknown" talent. There is a reason why the Chargers draft so well, so consistently, it is b/c they study everything & anything, there is no offseason for scouting.

Ok, so what great "unknown" talent have they found exactly? I'm having a hard time coming up with anyone.

 

[KingintheNorth]

- You want to pick some players that will replace guys on current roster that will become free agents the following season (Newman will be UFA, will a CB, even Newman, be worth franchising?)

Two things..
Newman is signed thru 2014.

If the rest of the statement is true expect us to draft a DE and OLB.
Stephen Bowen, Jason Hatcher, and Marcus Spears will all be unrestricted free agents. At OLB, Greg Ellis and DeMarcus Ware are both in the final year of their current deals. I can't imagine us not signing D Ware to an extension soon but as of now, he could be a 2010 Free Agent.

 

[BAT]

Ok, so what great "unknown" talent have they found exactly? I'm having a hard time coming up with anyone.

Are you telling me you knew about Antonio Gates? Jamal Williams was a supplemental pick that most teams passed on. Pro bowl punter Scifres was from Western Illinois. Jacques Cesaire (Southern Connecticut State) beat out starter & first day pick Igor Olshansky. They also grabbed starter Vincent Jackson out of Northern Colorado. Traded up and grabbed Eric Weddle, earlier than projected. They had a starting safety from Central Florida Community College (Clinton Hart). They always have great backup RBs, year in and year out (keep an eye on Marco Thomas, Western Illinois) who were primarily 2nd day picks. They have great success with UDFA_other than Gates, Kassim Osgood has also been to the pro bowl. OLB Jyles Tucker suppposed to be a star in the making. Legeduu Naanae also a playmaker. Same w/monster talent Malcolm Floyd (yet another Charger WR over 6'4 and athletic). I am sure I missed a few.


Maybe I should have said "lesser known" so the anal guys don't need to be medicated.

 

[dbair1967]

Are you telling me you knew about Antonio Gates? Jamal Williams was a supplemental pick that most teams passed on. Pro bowl punter Scifres was from Western Illinois. Jacques Cesaire (Southern Connecticut State) beat out starter & first day pick Igor Olshansky. They also grabbed starter Vincent Jackson out of Northern Colorado. Traded up and grabbed Eric Weddle, earlier than projected. They had a starting safety from Central Florida Community College (Clinton Hart). They always have great backup RBs, year in and year out (keep an eye on Marco Thomas, Western Illinois) who were primarily 2nd day picks. They have great success with UDFA_other than Gates, Kassim Osgood has also been to the pro bowl. OLB Jyles Tucker suppposed to be a star in the making. Legeduu Naanae also a playmaker. Same w/monster talent Malcolm Floyd (yet another Charger WR over 6'4 and athletic). I am sure I missed a few.

They've come up with a few, Gates was a tremendous find. However every team comes up with some here and there, why not credit Dallas for "finds" like the pro bowl QB from a tiny school in Illinois, the guys who are probably going to be the #2 and #3 WR's from NW Oklahoma St and Monmouth, the current backup DE's from Grambling and Hofstra. Where's our huge punter from? Some of the guys you listed above arnt from small schools either.

As for some of your other statements above, pretty sure Jamal Williams was a 2nd rd supp pick whom everyone knew about. He was probably going to be a 1st rd pick had he stayed in school the following yr. Eric Weddle everyone knew about and was widely regarded as one of the top safeties in the draft, thats why they moved up to get him. Cesaire didnt "beat out" Olshansky, he's been a rotational guy who has started some games when either Luis Castillo was injured or suspended, or the couple of games Olshansky has missed. Olshansky has started all but two games since he came into the league. Even someone like Vincent Jackson everyone knew about.