Ratliff & Witten Extensions. Strategy?

[CoCo]

Maybe I missed where this was discussed.

Can anyone think of why the front office wanted to get these extensions done now? I think both were still under contract for 2012. There must be a logical reason. (Spare me the Jerry insults please).

Is there an expectation of a big revenue jump this offseason or next that will jump player salaries and Jerry wanted to extend at todays dollars? I think we're working hard to whip our cap into shape. I assume these 2 signings are part of that - but I don't see the rationale.

Thoughts?

 

[AdamJT13]

It locks up the players for the long term and saves cap room this year and next.

 

[cowboyjoe]

It locks up the players for the long term and saves cap room this year and next.

Ok adam, i was wondering that too about cap this year. Not totally sure, but before we resigned ratliff and witten, we were like 18 million under the cap. I think we also restructured romo's contract too. Where does that put us for cap next year Adam?

Reports were we would be like 22 to 24 million over the cap in 2012? How much are we under or over the cap in 2012 now?

I think i see the cowboys doing this, so if another player like N.... the CB is available, the cowboys can go get him next year. Or say a player like a deion sanders comes available or a charles haley type player in a trade, I think i see the cowboys loading up for next year, after they see this year where they stand and what they need going into 2012.

Also, how much are we under the cap now in 2011 with resigning scandrick, witten and ratliff, while restructering tony romo's contract. Thanks in advance Adam. :starspin

 

[Ren]

Reports were we would be like 22 to 24 million over the cap in 2012? How much are we under or over the cap in 2012 now?

Don't we have a bunch of expiring contracts after this season?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Maybe I missed where this was discussed.

Can anyone think of why the front office wanted to get these extensions done now? I think both were still under contract for 2012. There must be a logical reason. (Spare me the Jerry insults please).

Is there an expectation of a big revenue jump this offseason or next that will jump player salaries and Jerry wanted to extend at todays dollars? I think we're working hard to whip our cap into shape. I assume these 2 signings are part of that - but I don't see the rationale.

Thoughts?

cheaper now than in the future. always. and we have ton of dead money in 2012 and need cap space. it provides us with some wiggle room if we need. just being diligent and aggressive.

if rat goes on and has a good year under ryan, then his price goes from 40 mill to 50 mill.

and you know witten will have the same year as always. tougher to get a better deal in the last year of your contract.

 

[shockandroll]

cheaper now than in the future. always. and we have ton of dead money in 2012 and need cap space. it provides us with some wiggle room if we need. just being diligent and aggressive.

if rat goes on and has a good year under ryan, then his price goes from 40 mill to 50 mill.

and you know witten will have the same year as always. tougher to get a better deal in the last year of your contract.

Yeah, it's done assuming that they will continue to play well and this allows us to get them a little cheaper then waiting a year. I believe the contracts are also structured so that if their play declines with age, there is not a huge cap hit to cut them as long as they play through 2013, at least with Rat.

So we get him for a reasonable price the next few years and a very good price if he contues to play well the length of the contract. If not, it won't kill us to cut him when the time comes.

 

[casmith07]

Ok adam, i was wondering that too about cap this year. Not totally sure, but before we resigned ratliff and witten, we were like 18 million under the cap. I think we also restructured romo's contract too. Where does that put us for cap next year Adam?

Reports were we would be like 22 to 24 million over the cap in 2012? How much are we under or over the cap in 2012 now?

I think i see the cowboys doing this, so if another player like N.... the CB is available, the cowboys can go get him next year. Or say a player like a deion sanders comes available or a charles haley type player in a trade, I think i see the cowboys loading up for next year, after they see this year where they stand and what they need going into 2012.

Also, how much are we under the cap now in 2011 with resigning scandrick, witten and ratliff, while restructering tony romo's contract. Thanks in advance Adam. :starspin

I believe we're about $20M under the cap now after restructuring Romo's contract.

Not sure about savings for next year, but I wouldn't worry about it. We have Stephen Jones.

 

[CoCo]

It locks up the players for the long term and saves cap room this year and next.

Yeah, those are the benefits on the surface.

I guess I'd figured the FO would want to hold onto cap flexibility (moving monies around) for now similar to Miles' deal where he was due 9MM in 2011 salary until they determined they needed the space.

I figured they'd do these deals next offseason when they had another year of data on each players health & longevity and more specifics on their 2012 cap needs.

They seemed like deals where we played our hand before it was necessary. So what benefit do we get more doing the deal now versus next offseason? Maybe we avoid some market inflation.

 

[AdamJT13]

Yeah, those are the benefits on the surface.

I guess I'd figured the FO would want to hold onto cap flexibility (moving monies around) for now similar to Miles' deal where he was due 9MM in 2011 salary until they determined they needed the space.

I figured they'd do these deals next offseason when they had another year of data on each players health & longevity and more specifics on their 2012 cap needs.

They seemed like deals where we played our hand before it was necessary. So what benefit do we get more doing the deal now versus next offseason? Maybe we avoid some market inflation.

You can't save money after it has already been spent. By saving money now, we have it available to spend whenever we need it.

Think of it this way -- which of these two HYPOTHETICAL options would you choose for having cap room to spend?

2011 $5 million
2012 $10 million
2013 $20 million
2014 $30 million
2015 $40 million

or

2011 $20 million
2012 $15 million
2013 $15 million
2014 $25 million
2015 $30 million

Keep in mind that you can push unused cap room forward at the end of the year.

It makes sense to choose the second option. If you don't use the $20 million in 2011, you push it forward and have $35 million in 2012 instead of $15 million. You then push the unused 2012 cap room into 2013 and repeat the process. If you can push unused cap room forward, it's ALWAYS better to have more cap room now than in the future. The key, though, is to spend the money wisely, because wasted money is wasted money, no matter when it counts against the cap.

 

[kevinhickey]

Thanks Adam.

 

[Risen Star]

Don't we have a bunch of expiring contracts after this season?

If we did, that would be factored into our projection in the offseason.

 

[AdamJT13]

Don't we have a bunch of expiring contracts after this season?

Other than one-year contracts (Elam, Sensabaugh, Dockery, Ball, etc.), the only expiring/voiding contracts of guys who will be UFAs are those of Bradie James, Mat McBriar, Anthony Spencer, Martellus Bennett, Jon Kitna and Keith Brooking.

 

[LarryCanadian]

The only longer contract renewals I see there are McBriar and probably Spencer if he has a decent year. Kitna and Brooking probably hang them up. Barring a minor miracle and Bennett getting consistent and emerging in a big way, I doubt we do much more than lowball offer him. James has a lot of miles on him. Might depend on what Bruce Carter shows. James is solid, but rarely spectacular. Dependable guy, with a lot of wear on the tires, and I doubt they overpay for him.

Maybe we can get Bennett to gain 50 pounds and be another OT?

LarryCanadian

 

[LarryCanadian]

Of the one year contracts, maybe Ball gets a long term deal if priced as a 4th or 5th CB with a bit of upside still?

Elam, with a new contract that suggests he might be eventually a backup and not a starter on the team? Depends on his season I guess. Does he have massive upside any more? Probably reached it.

I think Sensi will be gone. Physically talented but gives up a lot of plays or at least seems to make mistakes in coverage (not taking his assigned man). Just my thoughts on him. Fast, big, but then leaves guys wide open and gives up some big passing plays it seems to me. Always tough to tell who's assignment it is though, so that might be unfair.

LarryCanadian

 

[WG5516]

I fully expect Matt McBriar to get a 7yr, 20 mil Guaranteed contact. That was a joke, but didn't a kicker get 20 mil guaranteed already this season? lol

 

[hra8700]

AdamJT13, I have a question about the Ratliff deal still.

My understanding is that it is basically a 10 million dollar signing bonus now, making the base 2011 and 2012 salaries from his previous contract guaranteed, and then adding 5 years and 30 million dollars unguaranteed to the back.

Presumably the total of 7 years is only to diffuse the signing bonus and have a lot of fake years at the end that he will be cut before seeing.

But even so, given he's under contract through his age 31 year before signing this, assuming he'll be cut after his age 33 year, they are still giving him 10 million dollars (his signing bonus now) and whatever his base salary is for those 2 years extra for his age 32 and 33 years. That to me can only make sense if:

1. He was absolutely determined to sit out the year unless he was payed
2. He has a base salary of only 1 million a year or so in 2013 and 2014 so that his total cost per year is about 6 million at that age
3. The team is generously making up for his previous low pay

Can you help me make sense of this?

 

[AdamJT13]

AdamJT13, I have a question about the Ratliff deal still.

My understanding is that it is basically a 10 million dollar signing bonus now, making the base 2011 and 2012 salaries from his previous contract guaranteed, and then adding 5 years and 30 million dollars unguaranteed to the back.

Presumably the total of 7 years is only to diffuse the signing bonus and have a lot of fake years at the end that he will be cut before seeing.

But even so, given he's under contract through his age 31 year before signing this, assuming he'll be cut after his age 33 year, they are still giving him 10 million dollars (his signing bonus now) and whatever his base salary is for those 2 years extra for his age 32 and 33 years. That to me can only make sense if:

1. He was absolutely determined to sit out the year unless he was payed
2. He has a base salary of only 1 million a year or so in 2013 and 2014 so that his total cost per year is about 6 million at that age
3. The team is generously making up for his previous low pay

Can you help me make sense of this?

Ratliff was already due $8.625 million for 2011 and 2012. We gave him a $10 million bonus and will pay him salaries of $1.625 million and $1.5 million for 2011 and 2012. So, the actual "cost" of extending his contract was $4.5 million more than he would have gotten anyway.

His base salaries in 2013 and 2014 are $5 million and $5.5 million, respectively. If you're right that he'll never see the last three years of his contract, then we'll essentially pay him $7.25 million for 2013 and $7.75 million for 2014 ($2.25 million "extra" now for each of 2013 and 2014, plus his salaries). That's a little higher than the $6 million in your No. 2 condition, but we don't have to worry about losing him, and we saved a combined $1 million in cap room for 2011-2012 by doing it this way.

 

[hra8700]

Ratliff was already due $8.625 million for 2011 and 2012. We gave him a $10 million bonus and will pay him salaries of $1.625 million and $1.5 million for 2011 and 2012. So, the actual "cost" of extending his contract was $4.5 million more than he would have gotten anyway.

His base salaries in 2013 and 2014 are $5 million and $5.5 million, respectively. If you're right that he'll never see the last three years of his contract, then we'll essentially pay him $7.25 million for 2013 and $7.75 million for 2014 ($2.25 million "extra" now for each of 2013 and 2014, plus his salaries). That's a little higher than the $6 million in your No. 2 condition, but we don't have to worry about losing him, and we saved a combined $1 million in cap room for 2011-2012 by doing it this way.

Thanks so much for the insight. Rotoworld reported that his base salaries for 2011 and 2012 would remain unchanged, that's the reason for the bulk of my confusion.

So the way you describe since he will still have a little under 2 million guaranteed in 2013 as well, which kinda sucks.

But this seems like an ok contract. He hasn't played much for his age, so he might be more durable than other players, and based off other recent signings it seems total player revenue will increase substantially in the next few years so 7.5 million a year wont' be all that terrible. Plus he was probably complaining a lot privately, and they didn't want to deal with the hassle.

Not the end of the world. I knew the contract couldn't have been the way I thought it was, 'cause that would be a truly terrible contract for the cowboys.

 

[sonnyboy]

Ratliff was already due $8.625 million for 2011 and 2012. We gave him a $10 million bonus and will pay him salaries of $1.625 million and $1.5 million for 2011 and 2012. So, the actual "cost" of extending his contract was $4.5 million more than he would have gotten anyway.

His base salaries in 2013 and 2014 are $5 million and $5.5 million, respectively. If you're right that he'll never see the last three years of his contract, then we'll essentially pay him $7.25 million for 2013 and $7.75 million for 2014 ($2.25 million "extra" now for each of 2013 and 2014, plus his salaries). That's a little higher than the $6 million in your No. 2 condition, but we don't have to worry about losing him, and we saved a combined $1 million in cap room for 2011-2012 by doing it this way.

So all the *****ing and moaning about what an idiot Jones is was all over an addtional $4.5 million dollars allocted to one of our better players for the next two years.


Here's what I think most of our fans missing on these type decisions that come down from Jones.......

The Cowboys and Jones operate very differently than 99% of all sports teams in one specific area. Player Compensation.

Unlike every other team, the Cowboys work hard to not make it an adversarial type endeavor. They're not trying to "win". Beat the player, beat the agent.

This buys Jones a lot of good will so to speak and it sends a positive message to the team. "We're not going to screw you". Work hard, do your job and we'll take care of you.