RB question for cap experts

[coult44]

Can someone with good knowledge of where we are with the cap for this year and possibly next, tell me if we would be over the cap right now if we would have gave Murray the same contract Philly gave him. I'm wondering if with all the good contracts SJ has created, and the space that we still have available, if it would have worked out cap wise? I know we still have space. Stephen said earlier that he would spend every dime available under the cap. That has to be spent in the next two weeks. You don't get it back , and you don't get to roll it into next year. So what's the plan with the leftover money now?

 

[CowboyRoy]

Can someone with good knowledge of where we are with the cap for this year and possibly next, tell me if we would be over the cap right now if we would have gave Murray the same contract Philly gave him. I'm wondering if with all the good contracts SJ has created, and the space that we still have available, if it would have worked out cap wise? I know we still have space. Stephen said earlier that he would spend every dime available under the cap. That has to be spent in the next two weeks. You don't get it back , and you don't get to roll it into next year. So what's the plan with the leftover money now?

They could fit whatever they wanted to do, including paying Murray 8 million per year. Its the 8 million for 5 years that was the problem. Its simply not smart cap dollars to tie up that much money in one injury prone back for 5 years. During that time everyone accept Smith on the line will be due a big raise and we need the money for that as well as the pass rusher we signed this year.

 

[LandryFan]

Can someone with good knowledge of where we are with the cap for this year and possibly next, tell me if we would be over the cap right now if we would have gave Murray the same contract Philly gave him. I'm wondering if with all the good contracts SJ has created, and the space that we still have available, if it would have worked out cap wise? I know we still have space. Stephen said earlier that he would spend every dime available under the cap. That has to be spent in the next two weeks. You don't get it back , and you don't get to roll it into next year. So what's the plan with the leftover money now?

I don't know where we would be cap-wise had we signed DM, but you have to look further down the road than this year when managing your cap. You must also consider value for money spent. Personally, I don't think Philly gets the value for what they gave him, but that's JMO. As for remaining cap space, you have to keep some on the books for this year in case someone gets injured and others need to be signed. As for as cap $$ left over, I'm pretty sure it can be rolled into next year. Someone with more knowledge than me can address this with certainty, though.

 

[superonyx]

Also remember the Cap usually increases each year.
If we wanted Murray at 8million per year we could have kept him.
The problem isn't the difference between the 6.5 million we offered and the 8million philly offered..the problem was that philly gave him much more in guarantees. We may have given him 8 million per year with low guarantees in case he gets injured or we just want to release him.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I don't know where we would be cap-wise had we signed DM, but you have to look further down the road than this year when managing your cap. You must also consider value for money spent. Personally, I don't think Philly gets the value for what they gave him, but that's JMO. As for remaining cap space, you have to keep some on the books for this year in case someone gets injured and others need to be signed. As for as cap $$ left over, I'm pretty sure it can be rolled into next year. Someone with more knowledge than me can address this with certainty, though.

Philly and Chip Kelly were desperate and he HAS to win now or he is going to lose the fans in Philly. With all the changes he made, he almost HAD to sign Murray and give him what he wanted after Gore dissed them.

 

[LandryFan]

Also remember the Cap usually increases each year.
If we wanted Murray at 8million per year we could have kept him.
The problem isn't the difference between the 6.5 million we offered and the 8million philly offered..the problem was that philly gave him much more in guarantees. We may have given him 8 million per year with low guarantees in case he gets injured or we just want to release him.

Yes, the cap does increase but right along with that, contract costs increase. The players know that teams have more cap to spend so they demand more in their contracts. Bottom line, the cap increases don't allow you to go get more players, they just let you pay the players you do get more money. The other positive of cap increases is that it lets teams that are in cap trouble get out of cap trouble and have the potential to sign players down the road.

 

[John813]

This year Murray counts 5 million against the cap, with 18 million in dead cap space. Next year he counts 8 million in cap space.

Over the cap website has us at 131 million in total liabilities, with a salary cap of 148 million.

/http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/dallas-cowboys/

 

[AbeBeta]

They could fit whatever they wanted to do, including paying Murray 8 million per year. Its the 8 million for 5 years that was the problem. Its simply not smart cap dollars to tie up that much money in one injury prone back for 5 years. During that time everyone accept Smith on the line will be due a big raise and we need the money for that as well as the pass rusher we signed this year.

No. It isn't the 5 years that was the problem. Years 3-5 have little guaranteed money. There is no commitment in year three beyond 2 mill. You aren't tying up that cap space for 5 years.

 

[LandryFan]

Philly and Chip Kelly were desperate and he HAS to win now or he is going to lose the fans in Philly. With all the changes he made, he almost HAD to sign Murray and give him what he wanted after Gore dissed them.

I don't follow Philly closely enough to know how well they manage their cap and where they currently stand, and I don't know how much they paid for Mathews, but I do know they're paying a buttload of $$ for their running backs as a group. Call me dumb, but I just don't see how they're getting the bang for their buck and, consequently, don't see that as smart money spent.

 

[Vinnie2u]

People just don't wanna let Murray go... He's the enemy.

 

[CowboyRoy]

No. It isn't the 5 years that was the problem. Years 3-5 have little guaranteed money. There is no commitment in year three beyond 2 mill. You aren't tying up that cap space for 5 years.

Remember that the gauranteed money gets pro rated over the life of the contract if they cut him. So he would be hitting the cap pretty hard regardless.

 

[AbeBeta]

Remember that the gauranteed money gets pro rated over the life of the contract if they cut him. So he would be hitting the cap pretty hard regardless.

That's not true. The signing bonus does. He got a 5 mill bonus. That's what prorates. If he is cut after two years, it a 5 mill cap hit - a savings of 4 mill over keeping him.

So let's stop this nonsense about the length of the deal.

 

[John813]

Remember that the gauranteed money gets pro rated over the life of the contract if they cut him. So he would be hitting the cap pretty hard regardless.

If I'm reading it right, if they cut Murray in year 3, when he is 29, his cap hit is 9 million, and his dead cap hit is 5 million. So, they'll have 5 million in dead cap space, but gain 4 million in cap space compared to him being on the team. Years 4 and 5 he only has a dead cap hit of 2 million and 1 million, but cap hits of 9 million in both years.

 

[Aven8]

People just don't wanna let Murray go... He's the enemy.

I think it has more to do with his replacements. It's hard to let the reigning rushing champion/OPOY go when you replace him with Darren McFadden. Had we replaced him with a Gurley or whomever with some hope, it would be a lot less unsettling. Also, remember we are not use to this sort of thinking as well around here. Jerry has always paid and this time he didn't.

 

[CowboyRoy]

If I'm reading it right, if they cut Murray in year 3, when he is 29, his cap hit is 9 million, and his dead cap hit is 5 million. So, they'll have 5 million in dead cap space, but gain 4 million in cap space compared to him being on the team. Years 4 and 5 he only has a dead cap hit of 2 million and 1 million, but cap hits of 9 million in both years.

I have no doubts they will be cutting him as soon as it makes sense cap wise. Sounds like year #4?

 

[CowboyRoy]

I think it has more to do with his replacements. It's hard to let the reigning rushing champion/OPOY go when you replace him with Darren McFadden. Had we replaced him with a Gurley or whomever with some hope, it would be a lot less unsettling. Also, remember we are not use to this sort of thinking as well around here. Jerry has always paid and this time he didn't.

I completely agree.

 

[Nightman]

Can someone with good knowledge of where we are with the cap for this year and possibly next, tell me if we would be over the cap right now if we would have gave Murray the same contract Philly gave him. I'm wondering if with all the good contracts SJ has created, and the space that we still have available, if it would have worked out cap wise? I know we still have space. Stephen said earlier that he would spend every dime available under the cap. That has to be spent in the next two weeks. You don't get it back , and you don't get to roll it into next year. So what's the plan with the leftover money now?

If I'm reading it right, if they cut Murray in year 3, when he is 29, his cap hit is 9 million, and his dead cap hit is 5 million. So, they'll have 5 million in dead cap space, but gain 4 million in cap space compared to him being on the team. Years 4 and 5 he only has a dead cap hit of 2 million and 1 million, but cap hits of 9 million in both years.

Dallas would've structured it a little differently than Philly

But they would still be looking at paying him 21m over 3 years and accounting for that 21 over 5 years

His cap hits would've been
4.4m, 5.4m, 6.4m, 2.4m, 2.4m or
4.4m, 5.4m, 6.4m, 4.8
-dead money

Teams are absolutely allowed to roll over any unused cap space

 

[erod]

Murray is a $3-4 million back that the Eagles paid like Jim Brown reincarnated. That was the problem.

 

[Nightman]

Murray is a $3-4 million back that the Eagles paid like Jim Brown reincarnated. That was the problem.

That isn't even close to true on either count.

Murray is exactly were he should be. 8m a year is the 5th highest back and Jim Brown would be getting around 13-15m a year.

 

[superonyx]

People just don't wanna let Murray go... He's the enemy.

And so I sent some men to fight
And one came back at dead of night
Said he'd seen my enemy
Said he looked just like me
So I set out to cut myself
And here I go