Real grass vs turf

I won't claim to know anything about how good artificial turf is now.

Will say: if players want to play on grass, owners should make it happen. The players are the ones that know.
 
This from the NFLPA:

"The data supports the anecdotes you’ll hear from me and other players: artificial turf is significantly harder on the body than grass. Based on NFL injury data collected from 2012 to 2018, not only was the contact injury rate for lower extremities higher during practices and games held on artificial turf, NFL players consistently experienced a much higher rate of non-contact lower extremity injuries on turf compared to natural surfaces. Specifically, players have a 28% higher rate of non-contact lower extremity injuries when playing on artificial turf. Of those non-contact injuries, players have a 32% higher rate of non-contact knee injuries on turf and a staggering 69% higher rate of non-contact foot/ankle injuries on turf compared to grass."

From another article:

"A 2018 article in the American Orthopedic Society for Sports Medicine contends the rates of lower extremity injuries are higher on synthetic turf among NFL players.

A 2019 study published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine points out, “playing on artificial turf increases the risk of lower-body injury” and that “field surface has a causal effect on injury rates due to synthetic turf’s lack of ability to release an athlete’s shoe.”

Interestingly enough the NFL has tried to say that there is little difference between grass and turf when speaking of lower extremity non-contact injuries yet will not provide the data or research to support that claim.

However, from the same article referenced above here is an interesting quote about the above claim made by Jeff Miller, NFL VP of Communications:

"Dr. Tim Kremchek, an orthopedic surgeon for the Cincinnati Reds for 26 years, called Miller’s comment an “irresponsible statement.”

“Unless you can absolutely significantly prove it and challenge the other studies to dispute this,” Kremchek said. “If you go and you look at the data, the data is all significantly skewed toward using natural grass turf.”
 
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Pola_pe_a said:
Fake is never better. It grabs and doesn’t release as well as grass which leads to more non-contact injuries. The burns you get are an added bonus to turf. Turf is better then it used to be but grass is still the best. Grass is more upkeep and with the amount of stadiums being used for concerts etc turf is more economical.
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Yes, when it comes to better than use to be. When tried out for the NFL FA camp at Georgia Tech back in 89, that mess was hard as the road outside and it would take the skin right off your body.
 
Cowboysheelsreds053 said:
Yes, when it comes to better than use to be. When tried out for the NFL FA camp at Georgia Tech back in 89, that mess was hard as the road outside and it would take the skin right off your body.
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New stuff burns you up as well and the little rubber pellets coming up is no fun.

I played on old style turf in college and it was miserable. You were sore for an extra day and every joint hurt and that was playing OL where I wasn’t getting tackled.
 
T-RO said:
I won't claim to know anything about how good artificial turf is now.

Will say: if players want to play on grass, owners should make it happen. The players are the ones that know.
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It comes down to additional revenue streams for the stadiums. Fake grass allows them to have concerts etc on the surface without a ton of protection or maintenance.
 
GimmeTheBall! said:
Chap, there is nothing to your thought.
You are not the first to make the injury connection. But you get a certificate of being present.
If me fellow forumites reply then they can seek help in the future from service groups.
Right you are, govnor, right you are. When players' heads bounce off the fake turf, no es bueno.
I am not a smart poster so that is why i offer me opinion.
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You forgot to take your pills...
 
My son's school has played on the newer turf for at least 10 years now. Every school in the city has field turf because the fields get used so much (soccer, band, lacrosse, etc) that is is more economical for the school system. That being said, I haven't seen one significant knee injury due to field turf in that time span. We've had a few knee sprains from guys getting rolled up on or from an awkward tackle, but I don't recall a single non-contact injury. All that is anecdotal of course. I tend to think that the non-contact injuries in the NFL are more likely due to the size/speed combination of the players. Ligaments are under a tremendous amount of stress in a 250 lb body that is running a 4.4 and then stops on a dime.
 
JBond said:
Just for something different. Many stadiums have gone with the fake over concrete (Cowboys included). A few still have real turf. Head injuries and others injuries are something I am considering. Is there something to my thought? Doubtful many will reply. Not a Dak Zeke thread. Fake is better on knees and ankles and better from my understanding for fast players. How about when player's heads bounce off the fake turf. Just curious about opinions from the smart posters.
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This argument has been taking place since Astroturf was put in place. I watched guys like Dorsett play on it his entire pro career on turf no problem, goes to Denver blows his knee out at practice on grass field. I do think there are pros and cons with turf but in the end I don't think it will ever be removed just improved
 
JBond said:
Just for something different. Many stadiums have gone with the fake over concrete (Cowboys included). A few still have real turf. Head injuries and others injuries are something I am considering. Is there something to my thought? Doubtful many will reply. Not a Dak Zeke thread. Fake is better on knees and ankles and better from my understanding for fast players. How about when player's heads bounce off the fake turf. Just curious about opinions from the smart posters.
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In terms of impact on the body real grass is better than any version of artificial turf they've come out with to date. Yes the new FieldTurf is really good. For those who don't know the new turf is fake grass with ground up bits of rubber sprinkled over it which is why you see the little black bits of "dust" flying off it sometimes. It's a little more forgiving to fall and slide on but it still hurts and those little rubber bits can get stuck in your skin if you slide on it with any exposed skin.

I don't think it's even accurate to say the fake stuff is better on knees and ankles because we're seen far more non-contact ACL injuries from feet getting caught in the turf on it than we ever did on real grass. Yes fake grass is better for speed guys no doubt. Especially shorter guys. If you have explosive power in your legs a firmer surface will help turn that power into speed .. Helmets on the turf is a tough one.. frankly I don't think any surface is good for that. Better helmets would help..

I have long maintained that they should make football helmets to the specifications of motorcycle helmets. I once fell off my bike at about 60 mph trying to avoid a car. I tumbled down the freeway for 25-30 feet and when I got up and took my helmet off there was a huge "scar" across the face and forehead area where the helmet had hit the pavement. I never felt a thing. I actually got up, picked my bike up and after duct taping some stuff back on, rode it to a nearby repair shop. My leathers saved my body and my helmet saved my head. The worst injury I suffered was a jammed finger.
 
IM not sure it matters most stadiums are indoors now and multiuse type arenas cannot fiscally support Grass. I keep hearing about this every time there's an injury those keep calling Billones cheap. not sure injuries stated with fake turf, this is football its very physical and injuries are just part of it. they are paid well top do their jobs and sometimes a few unavoidable non-contact injury is going to happen and acceptable as part of the sport type deal.

Im assuming fans dont understand how hard it is to grow grass indoors or have way to set new field down for each game.

Its how it is.. another deal with it message to those who don't own pro sports teams and have no idea what it takes to keep fields set up for not just games but changes for other venues and sports that come in from time to time.

if there was a more efficient and better way, they would do it..

Id prefer to watch a game indoors on clean field and weather not dictating outcomes. the refs are hard enough to overcome add in sloppy fields from outdoor field like the 49ers always seem sloppy and muddy, its improved but to me only way to keep it fair lie see both teams truly come out and play each other to determine whose better that day , is keeping weather and field conditions out of the mix.
 
blueblood70 said:
IM not sure it matters most stadiums are indoors now and multiuse type arenas cannot fiscally support Grass. I keep hearing about this every time there's an injury those keep calling Billones cheap. not sure injuries stated with fake turf, this is football its very physical and injuries are just part of it. they are paid well top do their jobs and sometimes a few unavoidable non-contact injury is going to happen and acceptable as part of the sport type deal.

Im assuming fans dont understand how hard it is to grow grass indoors or have way to set new field down for each game.

Its how it is.. another deal with it message to those who don't own pro sports teams and have no idea what it takes to keep fields set up for not just games but changes for other venues and sports that come in from time to time.

if there was a more efficient and better way, they would do it..

Id prefer to watch a game indoors on clean field and weather not dictating outcomes. the refs are hard enough to overcome add in sloppy fields from outdoor field like the 49ers always seem sloppy and muddy, its improved but to me only way to keep it fair lie see both teams truly come out and play each other to determine whose better that day , is keeping weather and field conditions out of the mix.
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The old Candlestick Park was always soggy and muddy because it was literally right next to the San Francisco Bay and was below sea level. So the underlying ground was always saturated and the omnipresent fog off the bay made sure the surface was slick as well. The new stadium in Santa Clara is further inland so as not to suffer from the ocean water seeping underneath but it still gets a lot of moisture in the air for late afternoon and evening games.

All that said it's common sense that playing on covered concrete exacts a higher toll on the body than does playing on grass. Though I agree with you mostly about eliminating weather as best we can I also enjoy a good "weather game " from time to time. Watching teams adapt and cope to the elements is just part of football. Still having grown up in Florida and played college ball in Massachusetts I don't need to tell you which type of weather I preferred to play in. (Hint: I never got frostbitten fingers and toes playing in Florida) I do think the Super Bowl should NEVER be played in bad weather. The Super Bowl should be played in Florida, ATL, New Orleans, Texas, AZ and California. The Super Bowl is more than just the game.. It's an event.. of which the game is the centerpiece.. As I write this I assume Vegas will join the rotation too at some point. That'll be fun!
 
JBond said:
Just for something different. Many stadiums have gone with the fake over concrete (Cowboys included). A few still have real turf. Head injuries and others injuries are something I am considering. Is there something to my thought? Doubtful many will reply. Not a Dak Zeke thread. Fake is better on knees and ankles and better from my understanding for fast players. How about when player's heads bounce off the fake turf. Just curious about opinions from the smart posters.
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Modern turf fields are very nice...soft with springy underlayment.

The concept of cleats getting "stuck" in turf was the old style turf. You'll notice Cowboys players loose their footing more at home than on grass fields.

Astroturf was basically indoor/outdoor carpet over concrete. That is gone from the NFL.

With the old style turf some stadiums installed raised plywood floors that were under the turf to get away from the carpet on concrete issue.

 
RonnieT24 said:
In terms of impact on the body real grass is better than any version of artificial turf they've come out with to date. Yes the new FieldTurf is really good. For those who don't know the new turf is fake grass with ground up bits of rubber sprinkled over it which is why you see the little black bits of "dust" flying off it sometimes. It's a little more forgiving to fall and slide on but it still hurts and those little rubber bits can get stuck in your skin if you slide on it with any exposed skin.

I don't think it's even accurate to say the fake stuff is better on knees and ankles because we're seen far more non-contact ACL injuries from feet getting caught in the turf on it than we ever did on real grass. Yes fake grass is better for speed guys no doubt. Especially shorter guys. If you have explosive power in your legs a firmer surface will help turn that power into speed .. Helmets on the turf is a tough one.. frankly I don't think any surface is good for that. Better helmets would help..

I have long maintained that they should make football helmets to the specifications of motorcycle helmets. I once fell off my bike at about 60 mph trying to avoid a car. I tumbled down the freeway for 25-30 feet and when I got up and took my helmet off there was a huge "scar" across the face and forehead area where the helmet had hit the pavement. I never felt a thing. I actually got up, picked my bike up and after duct taping some stuff back on, rode it to a nearby repair shop. My leathers saved my body and my helmet saved my head. The worst injury I suffered was a jammed finger.
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Jack-Nicholson-Easy-Rider.jpg
 
Maybe they should try those bounce house balls to play on. That would be funny.
 
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