Really happy with our offseason so far

[SilverStarCowboy]

The entire NFL has "Off-season Envy" for your Dallas Cowboys.

 

[gmoney112]

It's not my money, but it is a percentage of the salary cap for a player who isn't worthy of it.

Holdouts are about leverage, and the only reason he thinks he can hold out is because he has some. He thinks the cowboys might bend and pay him given how shallow they are at the position. If we were fully stocked, he wouldn't risk his money. He is under contract and the only leverage he has is his position on the depth chart relative to the health and financial stability of claiborne and carr respectively.

Scandrick is the 47th highest paid corner in the league. I don't think he is a #1 corner and is being paid fairly for his abilities.

Haha yeah I know what leverage is, part of my career is negotiating contracts.

What is the point of this post? I responded saying Cromartie would be a zero sum return in the grand scheme of things and that Scandrick was holding out because he didn't think he was paid enough compared to other CB's. That was in response to your post insinuating somehow signing Cromartie would fix everything, and Scandrick would somehow forget about every other CB in the league because Carr wasn't in the locker room.

Substituting Cromartie for Carr would do absolutely nothing for our depth, we'd be in the exact same position.

Yeah I guess if we were deep enough where Scandrick was the 3-4 best CB, not even mentioning that we'd be the deepest team in the league at the secondary position if that were the case, then it is possible he wouldn't hold out.

As it is, he's holding out because he doesn't think he's making enough money relative the league standard. That should be fairly obvious. Brandon Carr's salary is irrelevant.

 

[Galian Beast]

Haha yeah I know what leverage is, part of my career is negotiating contracts.

What is the point of this post? I responded saying Cromartie would be a zero sum return in the grand scheme of things and that Scandrick was holding out because he didn't think he was paid enough compared to other CB's. That was in response to your post insinuating somehow signing Cromartie would fix everything, and Scandrick would somehow forget about every other CB in the league because Carr wasn't in the locker room.

Substituting Cromartie for Carr would do absolutely nothing for our depth, we'd be in the exact same position.

Yeah I guess if we were deep enough where Scandrick was the 3-4 best CB, not even mentioning that we'd be the deepest team in the league at the secondary position if that were the case, then it is possible he wouldn't hold out.

As it is, he's holding out because he doesn't think he's making enough money relative the league standard. That should be fairly obvious. Brandon Carr's salary is irrelevant.

Cromartie is better than Carr and leverage is the only reason Scandrick can hold out.

Cromartie Jones Claiborne/Patmon/White makes an impossible holdout. It's not about Carr's salary, it is about the fact that he knows we're going to cut Carr, but now we're in a position where we can't cut Carr because then Scandrick gains more leverage and we would be forced to pay him more. Scandrick understands the situation better than you do seem to (no offense).

 

[gmoney112]

Cromartie is better than Carr and leverage is the only reason Scandrick can hold out.

Cromartie Jones Claiborne/Patmon/White makes an impossible holdout. It's not about Carr's salary, it is about the fact that he knows we're going to cut Carr, but now we're in a position where we can't cut Carr because then Scandrick gains more leverage and we would be forced to pay him more. Scandrick understands the situation better than you do seem to (no offense).

So he'll holdout with Carr, but I guess he just really likes Cromartie so he wouldn't hold out with him here.

And they won't cut Carr because they're scared of Scandricks increased leverage if they do, not because he's our 2nd best CB.

Got it.

 

[Galian Beast]

So he'll holdout with Carr, but I guess he just really likes Cromartie so he wouldn't hold out with him here.

And they won't cut Carr because they're scared of Scandricks increased leverage if they do, not because he's our 2nd best CB.

Got it.

...You don't seem to be picking it up. The Cowboys want Carr to take a pay cut. He doesn't want to. The Cowboys would like to cut Carr as a result, but don't have the depth to do it, especially if Scandrick holds out.

Cromartie wouldn't be on the chopping block like Carr is and as a result Scandrick would not have the leverage to hold out...

I'm puzzled as to why you are struggling to grasp the difference between NEWLY signing Cromartie and potentially cutting Carr and the position they would be in on this team as it relates to Scandrick.

If Claiborne recovers from injury, Carr will be cut if he doesn't take the pay cut.

If Carr takes the paycut, his position becomes secure, and as a result Scandrick loses leverage, and if Claiborne is healthy Jones moves to free safety.

If Carr does take the paycut, his position becomes secure, and as a result Scandrick loses leverage, if Claiborne is not healthy, Jones plays corner.

 

[gmoney112]

...You don't seem to be picking it up. The Cowboys want Carr to take a pay cut. He doesn't want to. The Cowboys would like to cut Carr as a result, but don't have the depth to do it, especially if Scandrick holds out.

Cromartie wouldn't be on the chopping block like Carr is and as a result Scandrick would not have the leverage to hold out...

I'm puzzled as to why you are struggling to grasp the difference between NEWLY signing Cromartie and potentially cutting Carr and the position they would be in on this team as it relates to Scandrick.

If Claiborne recovers from injury, Carr will be cut if he doesn't take the pay cut.

If Carr takes the paycut, his position becomes secure, and as a result Scandrick loses leverage, and if Claiborne is healthy Jones moves to free safety.

If Carr does take the paycut, his position becomes secure, and as a result Scandrick loses leverage, if Claiborne is not healthy, Jones plays corner.

I'm not struggling to grasp anything, you've managed to convince yourself of several factors that aren't true to arrive at your conclusion.

All these scenario's you're listing are irrelevant. Scandrick still has leverage even if Carr takes a paycut.

Scandrick is holding out because he doesn't think he's paid enough. Period. He'd still be one of the top CB's on the team, even if Carr was jettisoned and Cromartie was here.

In your scenario, the only way Scandrick loses leverage is if Cromartie is legitimate, Claiborne has a miraculous recovery and plays the best football of his entire career, and Byron Jones comes in and plays much better than anyone expects of him.

As long as Scandrick is one of our best CB's, he has leverage.

And Carr will be on the roster Game 1, sorry to break it to you.

 

[Galian Beast]

I'm not struggling to grasp anything, you've managed to convince yourself of several factors that aren't true to arrive at your conclusion.

All these scenario's you're listing are irrelevant. Scandrick still has leverage even if Carr takes a paycut.

Scandrick is holding out because he doesn't think he's paid enough. Period. He'd still be one of the top CB's on the team, even if Carr was jettisoned and Cromartie was here.

In your scenario, the only way Scandrick loses leverage is if Cromartie is legitimate, Claiborne has a miraculous recovery and plays the best football of his entire career, and Byron Jones comes in and plays much better than anyone expects of him.

As long as Scandrick is one of our best CB's, he has leverage.

And Carr will be on the roster Game 1, sorry to break it to you.

In which scenario does Scandrick have the most leverage?

A) If the only cornerback on the depth chart that can start is a rookie corner?

or

B) If there are two corners that can start on the depth chart?

or

C) There are three corners who can start on the depth chart?

Cromartie is certainly legitimate. Pro Bowl Cornerback. The team likes Claiborne as a competent starter if he is healthy. he doesn't need to play the best football of his career in order to make the team more comfortable with him playing, especially with a better pass rush. Byron Jones doesn't need to play much better than expectations, he merely has to play to expectations.

The fact is that having less stability on the depth chart gives Scandrick leverage. Having more stability gives him less leverage, and as a result would have ended his hold out sooner, and as a result given us even more stability.

If Claiborne can go, Carr either takes his pay cut knowing he is going to get cut, or gets cut anyways. The Cowboys only need Claiborne to push Carr and the Cowboys need Carr to push Scandrick. Relying on Carr who is overpaid for his abilities who needs to take a pay cut, removes the stability that would push Scandrick.


It's pretty simple.

 

[gmoney112]

In which scenario does Scandrick have the most leverage?

A) If the only cornerback on the depth chart that can start is a rookie corner?

or

B) If there are two corners that can start on the depth chart?

or

C) There are three corners who can start on the depth chart?

Cromartie is certainly legitimate. Pro Bowl Cornerback. The team likes Claiborne as a competent starter if he is healthy. he doesn't need to play the best football of his career in order to make the team more comfortable with him playing, especially with a better pass rush. Byron Jones doesn't need to play much better than expectations, he merely has to play to expectations.

The fact is that having less stability on the depth chart gives Scandrick leverage. Having more stability gives him less leverage, and as a result would have ended his hold out sooner, and as a result given us even more stability.

If Claiborne can go, Carr either takes his pay cut knowing he is going to get cut, or gets cut anyways. The Cowboys only need Claiborne to push Carr and the Cowboys need Carr to push Scandrick. Relying on Carr who is overpaid for his abilities who needs to take a pay cut, removes the stability that would push Scandrick.


It's pretty simple.

My god, man. I don't care about talking about it anymore because you're correct, it is very simple, and you don't see it at all.

If they were that confident in Claiborne and Byron, Carr would have already been cut. Unfortunately, they don't because they're realistic, in which case Carr for Cromartie makes absolutely no difference.

Done talking about it though, so you're more than welcome to have the last word.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I don't think people were panicking 48 hours into free agency.

You are right, it was less. Happens every year without fail.

 

[Galian Beast]

My god, man. I don't care about talking about it anymore because you're correct, it is very simple, and you don't see it at all.

If they were that confident in Claiborne and Byron, Carr would have already been cut. Unfortunately, they don't because they're realistic, in which case Carr for Cromartie makes absolutely no difference.

Done talking about it though, so you're more than welcome to have the last word.

How can they be confident about Claiborne when we're sitting in May and he still hasn't shown if he will be ready for Training Camp or not... They don't need to make a decision on Carr until the regular season begins.

 

[ghst187]

With all due respect, that is a poor analysis of those teams. The Pats didn't have things break their way, they had great defenses when they first started winning super bowls, and then they build a great offense over time, and rebuilt their defense. What did the Patriots do last year? They went out and signed Revis and Browner, which helped put them over the top. Green Bay built one of the best offenses in the league as did Indy, Baltimore and Pittsburgh did the same on defense. Outside of the Giants who put together a great pass rush, I don't think any team won the super bowl and got lucky in doing so. Seahawks had one of the best defenses in the nfl the last few years. The Cowboys are putting together what could be a great defense, but we're not quite there yet. I think Cromartie could have helped. I think CJ Spiller was a back of similar caliber to Murray, who could have stepped in here and had success. I don't think McFadden is one of those backs. I turn my attention to Peterson now, because I feel like he is one of our last best options to have a catalytic player on this offense who can take us to a higher level this year and for a few more years.

With all due respect, that is a poor analysis of those teams. The Pats didn't have things break their way, they had great defenses when they first started winning super bowls, and then they build a great offense over time, and rebuilt their defense. What did the Patriots do last year? They went out and signed Revis and Browner, which helped put them over the top. Green Bay built one of the best offenses in the league as did Indy, Baltimore and Pittsburgh did the same on defense. Outside of the Giants who put together a great pass rush, I don't think any team won the super bowl and got lucky in doing so. Seahawks had one of the best defenses in the nfl the last few years. The Cowboys are putting together what could be a great defense, but we're not quite there yet. I think Cromartie could have helped. I think CJ Spiller was a back of similar caliber to Murray, who could have stepped in here and had success. I don't think McFadden is one of those backs. I turn my attention to Peterson now, because I feel like he is one of our last best options to have a catalytic player on this offense who can take us to a higher level this year and for a few more years.