Recent LB draft history must improve

[Bobhaze]

I know the Cowboys will draft at least one LB in the first four rounds of the draft this week. But let’s hope we have better luck than we have since drafting Bobby Carpenter in 2006 with the 18th pick.

Here are the Cowboys picks at LB in rounds 1-4 since 2006:
2006- R1-18th pick- Bobby Carpenter
2009- R3-69- Jason Williams
2010- R2- 55- Sean Lee
2011- R2-40- Bruce Carter
2012- R4-113- Kyle Wilbur
2014- R4-119- Anthony Hitchens
2015- R4-127- Damien Wilson
2016-R2-34- Jaylon Smith

With those 8 LB picks over eleven seasons, they have had 2, maybe 3 (depending on Jaylon Smith) go on to be long term starters. All three of the LBs taken in the second round, Lee, Carter and Smith, were all injury scarred guys, and so far, only Lee has played well consistently...when he wasn’t injured!

Will we finally draft a LB in rounds 1 or 2 that isn’t injured or overrated? Anxious to see what happens for us at LB starting Thursday. Maybe we stop drafting injured LBs early and get an immediate impact guy who can stay on the field for a few years!

 

[Risen Star]

Yeah that's why the depth chart is so weak. They do a terrible job of evaluating linebackers.

 

[Parcells4Life]

Carter was good in nickel packages.

Wilson wasn’t awful last year.

Wilber was what he was, a good special teams guy for a long time. With 4th round they’re counted on to make the team for awhile which Wilber did. He was above his floor but didn’t reach his ceiling.

Carpenter was killed by constant position flex and scheme change.

Williams was a bust.

Now a days you’re in Nickel 75% of the time anyway so LBs don’t have as big a priority as they once did. Having a special one like Lee (when healthy) or a terrible one (due to physical reasons) like Jaylon last year really shows up, but most guys in the league are between Wilson and Hitchens. Solid guys who can tackle.

It’s far from whats held this team back. The 330 pound hole that is the 1T spot is where to look for not getting off field consistently.

 

[cnuball21]

Lee and Hitch appear to be the only hits...woof.

We really need to hit on one this year, and preferably a MIKE.

 

[Bobhaze]

Carter was good in nickel packages.

Wilson wasn’t awful last year.

Wilber was what he was, a good special teams guy for a long time. With 4th round they’re counted on to make the team for awhile which Wilber did. He was above his floor but didn’t reach his ceiling.

Carpenter was killed by constant position flex and scheme change.

Williams was a bust.

Now a days you’re in Nickel 75% of the time anyway so LBs don’t have as big a priority as they once did. Having a special one like Lee (when healthy) or a terrible one (due to physical reasons) like Jaylon last year really shows up, but most guys in the league are between Wilson and Hitchens. Solid guys who can tackle.

It’s far from whats held this team back. The 330 pound hole that is the 1T spot is where to look for not getting off field consistently.

I totally disagree with your assessment that LB is “far from what has held this team back.” If Williams, Carter, Wilbur and Smith had been what they were drafted to be, we wouldn’t have to to spend so many precious draft resources on this position. Yes Damien Wilson “wasn’t awful”, but is that how we evaluate players in our draft now? “He wasn’t awful.” ???

The jury is still out on Jaylon Smith of course, but the focus on drafting a high round LB now is certainly an indication that the team is not convinced he will be a long term success.

Sean Lee is one of the eight LBs we drafted in the last 11 who has been what we drafted them to be. Sorry man, but IMO that is not good enough.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

That's actually pretty damn good drafting right there, just need to allocate more resources towards the position.

1st round you want a potential pro bowler
2nd round a solid starter
3rd develop into a starter
4th a depth player and ST contributor
5th-7th 50/50 chance to make roster

Jaylon isnt a solid starter yet
Wilson is a contributor
Hitchens is s solid starter
Wilbur is a contributor
Carter was a solid starter for many years
And we all know about Lee

Pretty impressive

 

[atlantacowboy]

Carpenter was a parcels picks. He looked good until Parcels left after his rookie year. I'll never understand why Wade tried to make him into an ILB. '

Hitchens was a good find in round 4.

What your list is showing me is that we haven't invested much draft capitol in the position. 1 first and 3 seconds isn't much over a 12 year period.

 

[Bobhaze]

Lee and Hitch appear to be the only hits...woof.

We really need to hit on one this year, and preferably a MIKE.

Im hoping we hit on at least 2 starters on defense this year, at least 1 being a LB. If Awuzie, Taco and Jourdan turn out at least as quality starters, we will have had two good drafts on D. Thats a big if though.

 

[Bobhaze]

That's actually pretty damn good drafting right there, just need to allocate more resources towards the position.

1st round you want a potential pro bowler
2nd round a solid starter
3rd develop into a starter
4th a depth player and ST contributor
5th-7th 50/50 chance to make roster

Jaylon isnt a solid starter yet
Wilson is a contributor
Hitchens is s solid starter
Wilbur is a contributor
Carter was a solid starter for many years
And we all know about Lee

Pretty impressive

IMO, the best way to judge a 5-10 year period with draft picks is simple: Playoff wins. That may be a very high bar, but if winning championships is the goal, how else can you grade your team? In the window I provided we have one playoff win. Not Cleveland, but is that any consolation?

The other frustration I have with FO is the number of times they preach patience. If Jerry or Stephen were in a real NFL organization, they wouldn't be preaching patience. They would be looking for a job. But Jerry's checkbook bought them the right to never be fired for a lack of reults.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

IMO, the best way to judge a 5-10 year period with draft picks is simple: Playoff wins. That may be a very high bar, but if winning championships is the goal, how else can you grade your team? In the window I provided we have one playoff win. Not Cleveland, but is that any consolation?

The other frustration I have with FO is the number of times they preach patience. If Jerry or Stephen were in a real NFL organization, they wouldn't be preaching patience. They would be looking for a job. But Jerry's checkbook bought them the right to never be fired for a lack of reults.

That's fine that you think that, but you can't use that to base how we drafted at a certain position by amount of playoff wins. That makes no sense.

It seems you're talking about two seperate things. Also, it's not always draft picks and free agent signings, coaching is a huge deal when it comes to playoff wins/success, which has been the biggest reason for our shortcomings in the playoffs.

 

[atlantacowboy]

IMO, the best way to judge a 5-10 year period with draft picks is simple: Playoff wins. That may be a very high bar, but if winning championships is the goal, how else can you grade your team? In the window I provided we have one playoff win. Not Cleveland, but is that any consolation?

The other frustration I have with FO is the number of times they preach patience. If Jerry or Stephen were in a real NFL organization, they wouldn't be preaching patience. They would be looking for a job. But Jerry's checkbook bought them the right to never be fired for a lack of reults.

You know its about jersey's sold not playoff wins in the Jones era.

 

[Parcells4Life]

What team is responsible for playoff wins due to their LBs?

New England - QB
Seattle - Secondary
Green Bay - QB
Atlanta - QB/WR
Jacksonville - DL
Philadelphia - DL/QB
Minnesota - DL

You don’t invest a lot of draft capital in a position year after year that only has 2 players on the field 75% of the time.

 

[xwalker]

I know the Cowboys will draft at least one LB in the first four rounds of the draft this week. But let’s hope we have better luck than we have since drafting Bobby Carpenter in 2006 with the 18th pick.

Here are the Cowboys picks at LB in rounds 1-4 since 2006:
2006- R1-18th pick- Bobby Carpenter
2009- R3-69- Jason Williams
2010- R2- 55- Sean Lee
2011- R2-40- Bruce Carter
2012- R4-113- Kyle Wilbur
2014- R4-119- Anthony Hitchens
2015- R4-127- Damien Wilson
2016-R2-34- Jaylon Smith

With those 8 LB picks over eleven seasons, they have had 2, maybe 3 (depending on Jaylon Smith) go on to be long term starters. All three of the LBs taken in the second round, Lee, Carter and Smith, were all injury scarred guys, and so far, only Lee has played well consistently...when he wasn’t injured!

Will we finally draft a LB in rounds 1 or 2 that isn’t injured or overrated? Anxious to see what happens for us at LB starting Thursday. Maybe we stop drafting injured LBs early and get an immediate impact guy who can stay on the field for a few years!

Actually it's not that bad.

Remove Wilber because he was drafted as a pass rusher. If you include him you have to include DWare.

Barbie was a Parcells seat of the pants pick based on Parcells knowing his Dad who was a player and coach. Parcells did something similar with OL Jacob Rogers.

Jason Williams was the one pick that Wade Phillips insisted on taking. It was Wade's primary input on the draft when he was here.

That leaves a good list of LBs actually picked by the scouting dept.

• Bruce Carter was a decent player here.
• Sean Lee is one of the best Cowboys LBs ever when healthy.
• Hitchens was great value for a 4th round pick.
• Wilson is a starter a SLB which is OK for a 4th round pick.
• Jaylon is still unknown. He looked like a good-enough starter by the end of last season and has potential to be much more than that.
• They almost had a big hit with a 6th round pick but he had to retire with a neck injury. Somebody will remember his name...

 

[reddyuta]

What team is responsible for playoff wins due to their LBs?

New England - QB
Seattle - Secondary
Green Bay - QB
Atlanta - QB/WR
Jacksonville - DL
Philadelphia - DL/QB
Minnesota - DL

You don’t invest a lot of draft capital in a position year after year that only has 2 players on the field 75% of the time.

most of the teams on that list have great linebackers.

 

[Parcells4Life]

most of the teams on that list have great linebackers.

They may have a great LB but Not as a trio. Dallas also has a great LB in Lee when he’s healthy.

 

[okstateCowboy]

What team is responsible for playoff wins due to their LBs?

New England - QB
Seattle - Secondary
Green Bay - QB
Atlanta - QB/WR
Jacksonville - DL
Philadelphia - DL/QB
Minnesota - DL

You don’t invest a lot of draft capital in a position year after year that only has 2 players on the field 75% of the time.

I've always viewed LB as one of the positions that you can go "cheap" on. Definitely need quality depth at the position though.

 

[Bobhaze]

What team is responsible for playoff wins due to their LBs?

New England - QB
Seattle - Secondary
Green Bay - QB
Atlanta - QB/WR
Jacksonville - DL
Philadelphia - DL/QB
Minnesota - DL

You don’t invest a lot of draft capital in a position year after year that only has 2 players on the field 75% of the time.

That's not what I said. I said the best way to judge a 5-10 year period was the draft. I didn't say just LBs. It's the whole draft. If winning a championship, or at the very least getting close to one is the goal, why is the number of playoff wins your drafts have provided not a fair measure?

Apart from this discussion about LBs, I'm also saying I'm tired of the results of the last two decades being called "not that bad". I'm not accusing you of saying that, but it has been a theme with a lot of Cowboys fans. "Not that bad" is not excellent.

 

[McKDaddy]

Yeah that's why the depth chart is so weak. They do a terrible job of evaluating linebackers.

Which scares the crap outta me when i think they may use 19 on one.

 

[McKDaddy]

I know the Cowboys will draft at least one LB in the first four rounds of the draft this week. But let’s hope we have better luck than we have since drafting Bobby Carpenter in 2006 with the 18th pick.

Here are the Cowboys picks at LB in rounds 1-4 since 2006:
2006- R1-18th pick- Bobby Carpenter
2009- R3-69- Jason Williams
2010- R2- 55- Sean Lee
2011- R2-40- Bruce Carter
2012- R4-113- Kyle Wilbur
2014- R4-119- Anthony Hitchens
2015- R4-127- Damien Wilson
2016-R2-34- Jaylon Smith

With those 8 LB picks over eleven seasons, they have had 2, maybe 3 (depending on Jaylon Smith) go on to be long term starters. All three of the LBs taken in the second round, Lee, Carter and Smith, were all injury scarred guys, and so far, only Lee has played well consistently...when he wasn’t injured!

Will we finally draft a LB in rounds 1 or 2 that isn’t injured or overrated? Anxious to see what happens for us at LB starting Thursday. Maybe we stop drafting injured LBs early and get an immediate impact guy who can stay on the field for a few years!

Thanks for doing the work to pull this info. I was thinking the same thing last night but didn't have the time to pull all the info.

 

[CPanther95]

Pretty consistent with the league average:

1st round: 70%
2nd round: 58%
3rd round: 34%
4th round: 16%

The odds of getting a LB with those 3 4th round picks from 2012 to 2015 was only 41%. If you want better odds, need to spend higher picks more often - and don't lean toward players with a history of injuries if you want to decrease the odds of them getting injured.

If you want to see a team falling short of the odds, look at the Steelers. Spent 4 of their last 5 1st rounders on LB and hit on 2.