Twitter: Referee Brad Allen on the 2 point conversion Illegal Touch call

[TheHerd]

Can someone post the all-22 of the formation at the snap? Everything else aside, I think the Lions had 8 men in the LOS if I saw the play correctly in real time.

 

[ColoradoCowboy]

The WR to Decker’s left was off the LOS tho. And the right side of the line was fine as well. There was no illegal formation.

Look at the FRONT foot, not the back foot. The WR and Decker both had their front foot at about the same place. The WR had a much wider stance though, so his back foot was way further back. But the back foot does not establish your position. I've never heard anyone say, "Well, my back foot wasn't offsides." I think the WR there was supposed to take a step back during the shift, but did not do it.

If Skipper, #70, reported as eligible, then the right side IS a penalty because he most certainly WAS covered up. If he did NOT report, then the right side of the line was fine.

Sorry, not calling you out or anything. Just tired of all the "The ref got it wrong" BS. It is the player's responsibility to make sure that the ref knows who is and who is not reporting. If the ref got it wrong, it is 100% because the player did not make it clear that he was reporting. The Lions were trying to be super sneaky and it backfired.

Honestly, all of this controversy is because the Lions tried to trick the defense. They had three guys go to the ref. According to the guys themselves, only one reported and did so by saying a single word, "report". According to everyone with a microphone, the ONLY reason to approach the ref like that is to report. So the whole point of sending three guys over there was trickery. So, there is a normal touching of one's chest to indicate to the ref that you are reporting. Sewell was over there SPECIFICALLY to shield Decker's chest touch from the defense. And Decker was so subtle with the move that no one noticed it, including the ref. There should be a CLEAR signal like a Fair Catch. ARM UP, I'M REPORTING>

Further, Dan Campbell does not seem to understand the rules here. He even said in his post game press conference that only one player CAN report. This is 100% not true. All three COULD have reported as long as they lined up in eligible positions. Campbell doesn't seem to understand that the ref has to TELL the defense who is eligible, so the attempt at trickery is moot. Heck, the PA system announces it too. And the ref and PA system both said #70 reported as eligible. Neither said #68 was.

This whole episode kind of backs up what I've heard about Campbell for years: Great guy, good coach, tough as nails, but a bit of a meathead.

If we take care of the Commanders and our WC round game, there is a pretty high likelihood that we will see these Lions again in the Divisional round. The press buildup to THAT game would be phenomenal.

 

[ColoradoCowboy]

Can someone post the all-22 of the formation at the snap? Everything else aside, I think the Lions had 8 men in the LOS if I saw the play correctly in real time.

Without looking it up, I believe that the rules state that there must be "at least 7" on the LOS. After the shift, they had 9 on the LOS, if you count the WR on the left (which he clearly WAS).

 

[CowboyStar88]

Pretty far away to report

Why is he running to the ref if he’s not reporting? He had been reporting all game.

 

[TheHerd]

Without looking it up, I believe that the rules state that there must be "at least 7" on the LOS. After the shift, they had 9 on the LOS, if you count the WR on the left (which he clearly WAS).

Thanks, you are correct. I thought it had to be 7:

The offensive team must be in compliance with the following at the snap:

1. (a) It must have seven or more players on the line
2. Eligible receivers must be on both ends of the line, and all of the players on the line between them must be ineligible receivers
3. No player may be out of bounds

Penalty: For illegal formation by the offense: Loss of five yards.

 

[CowboyStar88]

The fault though falls on the player. It is the player's job to clearly inform the referee they are reporting as eligible and confirm the referee received it.

From the quote I read, Decker said he went to the referee and said "report". That was it. That is what he later said he said to the referee.

That combined with having 3 linemen all approach the referee at the same time makes it very clear the Lions were trying to be sneaky and confuse the defense and in the process confused the referee.

You can blame the referee, and I would not be surprised if he misheard who was eligible, but when you have 3 linemen approach the referee including one (#70) running from the sideline straight to the referee, it's very understandable that the referee believed #70 was the one reporting as eligible.

Sometimes coaches outsmart the wrong people and in this case, it seems like that's what happened.

And 70 had been the one reporting eligible all game.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

While I have no love lost for the officials, the more I read about this the more I think the Lions are to blame.

In fact I would pin the blame 70/30 on the Lions over the refs at this point. Maybe more.

 

[ColoradoCowboy]

What is really bad is why wasn’t the 2 flags thrown until about 1 minute after the conversion. Dan Campbell talked to Allen before the game about this very play. I think the ref screwed up and now will not admit it. If all you folks are right saying it’s the right call why is the NFL looking into it. It will be interesting to see the official NFL take on this.

Campbell did talk to the officials before the game, but it has been widely reported that Allen was not at that meeting.

The NFL is looking into it probably because Allen did not stop, talk to all three players approaching him, and then determine who was and who was not reporting.

 

[TheHerd]

The WR to Decker’s left was off the LOS tho. And the right side of the line was fine as well. There was no illegal formation.

I think you’re missing the call. They announced 70 as eligible. That isn’t up for debate. No one is arguing 70 wasn’t announced, we all heard it. So 70 (an eligible receiver) was covered by 68. Simple. If Detroit wanted to correct that mistake by the refs, they had plenty of time and opportunity but chose not to.

We can debate all the other ref screw ups, but once a number is announced as eligible, that number is eligible and can’t be covered. 70 was clearly covered by 68. Illegal formation. 5 yards. I don’t understand all the controversy to be honest. It’s disingenuous and biased.

 

[ColoradoCowboy]

Look at the right side of the line. The TE is not yet into his stance as this screen grab was taken as he was bending down to put his hand on the ground. The WR to his right is also on the LOS, so he is eligible and EVERYONE else on the right side to the center is ineligible. Dan Skipper, #70, is the second guy in from the TE that is not yet set. Since he was reported as eligible and he is NOT in an eligible position, that is an Illegal formation penalty.

Also, look at the WR on the left. His right foot is very to the same place as Decker. But his back foot makes him LOOK like he is further back. But he is pretty clearly covering up Decker, so it is a penalty even if Decker HAD been reported as eligible.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Thanks. Then I guess I don’t understand your original post about #70 reporting eligible and being covered. Sewell was already covered by the WR on the right being on the LOS. #70 being covered is irrelevant because he was playing OG on the play no? Just comes down to whether or not 68 reported or not.

And as far as saying the Lions had time to correct the referees mistake (if there was one)…we can all agree that if the Lions stop the play momentarily to make sure 68 is announced they might as well have also announced to the Cowboys “Hey, we’re throwing it to 68” right?

well duh, hence the reporting rule

 

[Acheman08]

I was watching GMF and they are of course saying that the lions got robbed blah blah blah...how about they back it up a few plays to the trip that was erroneously called on dallas that halted the drive. No mention about that. How about how the Lions ran two more 2 pt plays after this instead of kicking the extra point to tie? Or that there wouldve been time left on the clock with dallas having all their timeouts. They are just talking heads looking to fill time and get eyeballs.

 

[ColoradoCowboy]

Here is the actual play. Note who is on the LOS and who is OFF the LOS.

In the original lineup, there are 5 eligible receivers: 87, 14, 5, 8, and 16. 8 is the "end" on the left and 14 is the "end" on the right. 87 and 5 are off the LOS. Interestingly, 58 is lined up as if he were a receiver, but he is covered up by 14, so he is NOT eligible.

Then they shift.

Note that 14 and 8 DO NOT MOVE. They are BOTH still the "ends". This makes Decker ineligible. Period. I don't know why there is so much discussion on this. Even if he DID report, it would be an illegal formation.

Thanks YouTube.... Go to 11:30 of the video.

 

[pansophy]

Pretty far away to report

Yeah I think the ref f’ed up. He said himself 70 had reported eligible a few times and he probably got confused. Still the real problem is that the defense cover 70 instead of 68 on purpose so who knows if the play works if 68 is declared to the defense.

in the end they got two shots at and didn’t do it. Plus we got that tripping call, which if called correctly likely ends the game.