Refs on Cowboys’ Side for Once

[MarcusRock]

NOW who's out here "defending the refs" like I get accused of all the time?

 

[MarcusRock]

And Steele basically tackled BJ Hill on the first Gallup catch on the final drive. Ref even had his hand on his pocket but didn’t throw it.

This is the one Giants friends of mine are really chapped about.

That's a rough one to call it happened so fast. After seeing the acting job from Seattles CB I'm never sure anymore.

Bottom line is that no reasonable person can really dispute that holding should have been called on the final drive.

It must be that Packer blocking technique lol

How was that a hold?

The ref actually reached for his flag but did not throw it thankfully...

Okay, I can never pass up a good rules tutorial opportunity so I isolated this play:

First, the rules. What many don't know is that there are exception categories to holding even if it "looks like" a hold. Among them is the "rip" technique (or dip and rip) where a defender lowers his inside arm to the outside of an OL and then kinda punches it upward violently to turn the corner on the OL much easier. See the rules and the red highlight.

ARTICLE 3. ILLEGAL BLOCK BY OFFENSIVE PLAYER.
.
.
Blocking Notes:
(1) When a defensive player is held by an offensive player during the following situations, Offensive Holding will not be
called:

(a) if the runner is being tackled simultaneously by another defensive player;
(b) if the runner simultaneously goes out of bounds;
(c) if a Fair Catch is made simultaneously;
(d) if the action clearly occurs after a forward pass has been thrown to a receiver beyond the line of scrimmage;
(e) if the action occurs away from the point of attack and not within close-line play;
(f) if a free kick results in a touchback;
(g) if a scrimmage kick simultaneously becomes a touchback;
(h) if the action is part of a double-team block, unless the defender splits the double team, gets to the outside of either
blocker, or is taken to the ground; or
(i) if, during a defensive charge, a defensive player uses a “rip” technique that puts an offensive player in a position
that would normally be holding.​

(2) If a blocker falls on or pushes down a defender whose momentum is carrying him to the ground, Offensive Holding will
not be called unless the blocker prevents the defender from rising from the ground.
(3) If the official has not seen the entire action that sends a defender to the ground, Offensive Holding will not be called.​

Now the videos, first at full frame and then zoomed in. You'll see the Giants defender's arm come up in that punching upward motion and to the outside of Steele. Steele's arm was across the Giants DL's front due to that DL's rip technique. A still shot would look like holding but that's not an automatic hold per these rules. Once Dalton moves, Steele has to let him go because continuing to keep the arm across the body once the DL's direction changes or a pull either towards himself or that makes the DL fall IS a hold. Luckily, Steele lets go and allows the DL's own weight and momentum to take himself to the ground (or might have even been a bit of a flop to sell a hold). Might have even been a shove from Steele's left hand to assist.

 

[beacamdim]

The content of this thread proves my original point: whether calls are “close but correct” or a total screw job is entirely contextual (or in other words, were they to or against the Cowboys’ advantage).

All of the rule book quoting, hyper technical defenses of the refs with respect to yesterday’s calls were completely rejected in other situations - most notably the OPI on Gallup in week one.

The real lesson is that at the margin most controversial calls can be argued both ways - and they Cowboys got the favorable interpretations yesterday on several occasions.

So at least please be honest and consistent. That’s all.

 

[Creeper]

Can’t complain about the whistles this week.

Flag on Fleming on the fake FG was ticky-tack and everyone here would be *****ing - justly - if that same call is made against the Boys.

Even Romo said the pick call on the Slayton TD was a poor one.

And Steele basically tackled BJ Hill on the first Gallup catch on the final drive. Ref even had his hand on his pocket but didn’t throw it.

Guess the refs didn’t get Goodell’s memo this week.

On to AZ.

The call on Fleming was the right call. He did not get set. The ref threw the flag before he knew the outcome of the play - which shouldn't make a difference anyway. The pick call was also the right call. The only thing I would say about that one is they do not call it enough. I saw plays this weekend where a WR literally blocked a DB allowing another WR to get deep and it wasn't called. They have to call all of those.

I watched the Steele block on BJ Hill and at first I thought he held him, but after watching it a few times I don;t think he did. It looked like he did because Hill fell down but I could not see and real holding that cause him to fall down.

If you wanted to see a game the refs really messed up, watch the Eagles-Steelers game. The officiating of that game was awful. So many bad penalties and blown calls.

 

[JayFord]

The Giants had some iffy calls on them but it didnt matter to me

teams wideouts have been setting pick plays on our corners for YEARS without it being called

usually when the Cowboys play they dig deep into the rule book and use rules from The year 1565 to penalize us

 

[Creeper]

This is the one Giants friends of mine are really chapped about.

Where do you see holding on this play? Because you see the Giants guy fall down? Watch Steele's hands. Where are they? You can see his right hand and it is fine. You can't see his left hand. If his left hand can around BJ Hill's body it would be holding. But Steele kept his hands in front of him. Hill fell down because he turned to chase Dalton and Steele shoved him.

That was a good non-call.

 

[This is Our Year]

Where do you see holding on this play? Because you see the Giants guy fall down? Watch Steele's hands. Where are they? You can see his right hand and it is fine. You can't see his left hand. If his left hand can around BJ Hill's body it would be holding. But Steele kept his hands in front of him. Hill fell down because he turned to chase Dalton and Steele shoved him.

That was a good non-call.

Hey I agree with you. I’m just saying what my Giants fans buddies were pissed about. Haha.

 

[mmohican29]

How was that a hold?

Looks like pretty good pass blocking to me too, hands inside shoulder pads until ball is thrown. Possibly a GB tactic they get away with 100's of times per season that arrived here if someone wants to see a penalty. Seen way worse not called.

 

[Creeper]

Hey I agree with you. I’m just saying what my Giants fans buddies were pissed about. Haha.

Giants fans are always complaining, but they have a lot to complain about lately. Then again they have a couple of Super Bowls since Dallas won its last so maybe they have nothing to complain about.

 

[MarcusRock]

The content of this thread proves my original point: whether calls are “close but correct” or a total screw job is entirely contextual (or in other words, were they to or against the Cowboys’ advantage).

All of the rule book quoting, hyper technical defenses of the refs with respect to yesterday’s calls were completely rejected in other situations - most notably the OPI on Gallup in week one.

The real lesson is that at the margin most controversial calls can be argued both ways - and they Cowboys got the favorable interpretations yesterday on several occasions.

So at least please be honest and consistent. That’s all.

If you're looking for consistent, you're not going to find that here. People want what they want when it's to their benefit. I call 'em like I see 'em and defended the Gallup call too. He fully extended his arm so they're gonna call that most times.