Report: UFL wants NFL to invest

[Trendnet]

This is a debate on whether teams would send their practice squad guys to the UFL rather than stay with the team during the season. Nothing more. Sure its possible some players could be developed, but teams are going to want to keep their practice squads on the team.

I don't know...

If the Cowboys (or any other team) retain exculsive rights to the players who play in the development.... maybe an argument could be made, if a development league existed, maybe a player like Romo develops quicker and ends up starting a year or two earlier (and the Cowboys never see Bledsoe).

I can see the argument the other way as well. The Cowboys obviously saw something in Romo so I doubt he wouldve ever played in a d-league.

But in reality, practice squad players don't normally contribute the same season they are on the practice squad... or if ever in their careers, so I'd argue a development league would hardly hinder a players development for a team. I'd say it would help more than hurt.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Football is totally different than those sports. Teams were reluctant to send guys to nfle even when the nfl was in offseason. They will want those guys practicing with the rest of the squad learning their playbook from their coaches. This is really common sense stuff.

No they weren't; all teams used their full alottment of players because it opened up extra roster spaces.

How is player development so radically different in football? You just say it like its a given but there is no thought analysis or anyhting to back it up. What makes you think that people say players that get their 4 full years of NCAA ball are more prepared than juniors coming out? Its the exact same concept i am talking about.

There are a ton of players that need a lot more experience and playing live games is the best way of doing that. Isaiah Stanback is the poster child for needing something like that.

Sure not all prospects would benefit from this but to just give a blanket statement that no NFL tteam would want any player to benefit from this is just you being pigheaded.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I doubt many of these guys are going to like carry the ball 300 times in a season after playing a slate of UFL games.

They would play 8 games in the UFL. If they were brought to the roster then it would be in the beginning of December with only 4 or 5 games left.

You would see players being called up during the season and players being sent down. You would see a ton more trades because these guys would be tradeable commodities.

You get benefited more by drafting and scouting well. The Matt Moore's of the world would not just fall through the cracks. But most importantly the quality of the play overall would improve.

Guys like Manny Johnson and Stephen McGee would be getting live action to improve their games.

Keep in mind the UFL TC isnt until September prospects would still get to work with the club all offseason and into TC so all they would be missing would be reps during the actual season of which they would get virtually none.

 

[casmith07]

Any player that was sent down to the NFL Developmental Program (lets call it NFL-D for short) would get real, in-game experience...quarterbacks would get to run the 2-minute offense against a real defense in a game that matters, WRs would be forced to make those tough catches over the middle against a real defense instead of guys playing two-hand touch in practice, and probably more importantly offensive linemen would get a chance to see all kinds of different moves from defensive players and have to pick up different kinds of blitzes...

The developmental value would be incredible. Rather than Wade Phillips trying to evaluate DeAngelo Smith with the scout team on Wednesdays in practice and at the same time trying to work out kinks with the starting defense and work with a gameplan for the Eagles that Sunday, there would be coaches in place, ideally through an affiliate (for example, San Antonio's coaches would be affiliated with the Cowboys) similar to the way MLB's farm system works. Coaches would get weekly updates from their affiliates in meetings or briefings, and be able to give those coaches a point of emphasis to focus on with a particular OG or CB in order to hopefully prepare him to make the team the next summer in camp.

I know people are worried about "the playbook." If a guy knows he's getting invited to Cowboys camp that summer to show what he's got, as opposed to reporting to San Antonio camp, he'll know ahead of time what plays to start studying, what routes to work on with his personal trainer, etc.

It would also make the draft not hurt as badly when teams have so many misses. Then, if a guy is playing out of his mind, say, at QB, you could call him up to the NFL and send the struggling 1st round pick down to the NFL-D to get some much needed snaps in a less-demanding environment to work on mechanics, reading defenses, etc.

I know it sounds perfect in theory, but it'd need some work. You'd have to figure out who's affiliated with who, since there obviously won't be 32 NFL-D teams...do you basically let the D-league be a waiver wire where anyone can be signed? Or do you have teams that retain the rights to certain players? If you do the rights-retaining model, then how to do figure salary cap figures, since obviously the player will be playing with a separate "franchise" and helping out that team's revenue in that market as opposed to helping his team in Arizona, for example.

I'd love to be a part of a think tank or focus group tasked with developing a model for this sort of thing. Too bad I'm in the Army :

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Any player that was sent down to the NFL Developmental Program (lets call it NFL-D for short) would get real, in-game experience...quarterbacks would get to run the 2-minute offense against a real defense in a game that matters, WRs would be forced to make those tough catches over the middle against a real defense instead of guys playing two-hand touch in practice, and probably more importantly offensive linemen would get a chance to see all kinds of different moves from defensive players and have to pick up different kinds of blitzes...

The developmental value would be incredible. Rather than Wade Phillips trying to evaluate DeAngelo Smith with the scout team on Wednesdays in practice and at the same time trying to work out kinks with the starting defense and work with a gameplan for the Eagles that Sunday, there would be coaches in place, ideally through an affiliate (for example, San Antonio's coaches would be affiliated with the Cowboys) similar to the way MLB's farm system works. Coaches would get weekly updates from their affiliates in meetings or briefings, and be able to give those coaches a point of emphasis to focus on with a particular OG or CB in order to hopefully prepare him to make the team the next summer in camp.

I know people are worried about "the playbook." If a guy knows he's getting invited to Cowboys camp that summer to show what he's got, as opposed to reporting to San Antonio camp, he'll know ahead of time what plays to start studying, what routes to work on with his personal trainer, etc.

It would also make the draft not hurt as badly when teams have so many misses. Then, if a guy is playing out of his mind, say, at QB, you could call him up to the NFL and send the struggling 1st round pick down to the NFL-D to get some much needed snaps in a less-demanding environment to work on mechanics, reading defenses, etc.

I know it sounds perfect in theory, but it'd need some work. You'd have to figure out who's affiliated with who, since there obviously won't be 32 NFL-D teams...do you basically let the D-league be a waiver wire where anyone can be signed? Or do you have teams that retain the rights to certain players? If you do the rights-retaining model, then how to do figure salary cap figures, since obviously the player will be playing with a separate "franchise" and helping out that team's revenue in that market as opposed to helping his team in Arizona, for example.

I'd love to be a part of a think tank or focus group tasked with developing a model for this sort of thing. Too bad I'm in the Army :

Excellent post, sir.

As for call ups and send downs, the wya the NBA and MLB do it is through options. When you sign a player you have a certain amount of options to send them down/call them up. You can send a player up or down say 5 times over the life of the contract after which they go through waivers which if they clear they become a FA.

 

[casmith07]

Excellent post, sir.

As for call ups and send downs, the wya the NBA and MLB do it is through options. When you sign a player you have a certain amount of options to send them down/call them up. You can send a player up or down say 5 times over the life of the contract after which they go through waivers which if they clear they become a FA.

Thanks!

The NFL might be able to do something similar to the tender system. Let's say with all players, you sign them to their initial draft sheet contract - a 90 day contract to last the duration of training camp, or until they are cut from the roster, for example; then there'd be a tiered tender system, for example:

Tier 1 Players, picked in rounds 1 or 2: Tier 1 players picked up by another club would have to give up original draft pick compensation as well as pick up any remaining contract value. The club holding their contract also can exercise first right of refusal. Tier 2 would be rounds 3-5, and Tier 3 would be Rounds 6 & 7 plus UDFAs. Tier 1 would have a max contract of 5-years, Tier 2 would be 3 years, and Tier 1 would be 1 year...basically if they don't raise the tender and thus raise the contract value in the off-season, any Tier 3 players that spent one season playing in the D-League would then become UFAs. If a Tier 3 player is playing awesome and his rights are owned by Denver, and New England wants to sign him, they have to a) pick up his contract, and b) return a 6th round pick to Denver OR the next highest round if they don't have a 6th round pick in the next draft (so if New England has no 6th rounder, they've got to give up a 5th). Denver of course still holds first right of refusal - this would prevent teams from just signing anyone's guys, but also gives teams an option to let a guy go but not let him go for nothing other than cap relief.

Basically what it does is ensures that nobody can call up your FS you're developing off your roster without compensating your organization. If he's worth it to you, you can refuse/match the offer and keep him, and if he's not you can let him walk and gain a pick in the next year's draft. This would allow players to be farmed out to different clubs as opposed to a team like Detroit drafting something crazy like 4 WR busts in a row, and their d-league affiliate has 16 WRs on the roster.

The only thing that changes then is that the coaching staff wouldn't be an affiliate of your own club...it would either have to be a mix with certain teams having more than one affiliate D-league team, or you'd have trainers/scouts that would monitor the player's progress.

Look at this monster we've created

 

[Deep_South]

Is this an urban legend or something?

Half of the UFL worth 50 million dollars? I watched a few of their games, which were entertaining and well produced for the most part, but there are bigger crowds at Class A high school games.

Something is wrong here.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Baseball is a lot more complex game than football with many more nuances. It's also not nearly as hard on the body as football.

Plus, many baseball players are drafted right out of high school, so they need more development.

Most people realize this.

I still remember when Parcells banished, er, sent Hutch to NFLE for "development". Meanwhile, he kept Romo around.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Baseball is a lot more complex game than football with many more nuances. It's also not nearly as hard on the body as football.

Plus, many baseball players are drafted right out of high school, so they need more development.

Most people realize this.

I still remember when Parcells banished, er, sent Hutch to NFLE for "development". Meanwhile, he kept Romo around.

Baseball is a lot more complex thatfootball?

Its all about bat speed and eye coordination. Sure you have to learn how to work counts and study pitching tendencies but complez? spare me.

Defense takes a lot of physical quickness etc esp in the middle infield but a doulb eplay takes 3 maybe 4 people to coordinate and is the same basic things over and over again.

Pitching again is about learning tendencies but you develop 3 or pitches and be able to throw strikes or use them to set up hitters.

There are no playbooks in baseball. In football you have 2 sides of 11 people working in coordination. Its not really close.

Sabermetrics are further developed and much more complex in baseball precisely because football is so complex and its harder to isolate data for the most part. Baseball is batter versus hitter.

And I remember when Jake Delhomme and Brad Johnson came out of NFLE and were winning playoff games and Super Bowls.

Parcells sent Hutchinson to the NFLE because he was awful at reading defenses and needed real game experience. Same with Henson.

This notion that there are not a ton of players on NFL rosters or on the cusp of NFL rosters could use practical playing experience is ludicrous. Guys like Jeremy Urban come to mind.

There are tons of small schools that simply don't have developed systems and an absolute ton of guys coming out every single year out of the 100 or so Division 1 schools.

I also do not believe that the UFL has a minimum age. If you don't want to sit through english and history courses and you have a ton of talent and want to make some money then you go play for the UFL and develop your skills there.

They are going to be running pro style offenses anyway and quite frankly the spread offense does no one any favors in preparing for the NFL game.

Guys getting hurt is a piss poor excuse to not develop talent.

 

[jrumann59]

how bout regional farm teams that are shared by 1 nfc and 1 afc team. In texas you could have San Antonio. That way teams don't have to send their players across the country to BFE to play and worry about whether he is getting coached properly. I know states like NY and FL cause a problem because they have 3 teams associated with that state. That would lower the farm team count to 16 with a tighter rein on talent evaluation.

 

[iceberg]

Trying to become the NFL's developmental league? Smart move. Get all those practice squad guys on the field so scouts can watch them in games and not playing the role of the opponent in practice on Thursdays.

baseball has had a minor league for awhile now. this makes more sense than a euro league.

 

[jrumann59]

I broke it down trying to keep travel minimal but really isn't possible.

Ari-SD
Oak-SF
Den-Sea
KC-STL
Dal-Hou
NO-Tenn
Minn-Cinn
GB-Buff
NYG-NE
Det-Ind
Chi-Cle
Phi-Pit
Car-NYJ
Bal-DC
Atl-Jax
Mia-TB

16 regional teams fielded with players from the associated teams

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

I like the idea of a developmental league...

 

[ZeroClub]

A few more roster spots on each NFL team could go a long way toward player development.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

A few more roster spots on each NFL team could go a long way toward player development.

Yep...

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

A few more roster spots on each NFL team could go a long way toward player development.

There are what 73 to 75 after the season is over? During the season everyone who actually sees the field gets all of the attention so adding 4 slots to the roster wouldn't see them get anything. You want to make it 85 in the offseason.

They need live action not reps against air.

 

[jjktkk]

I don't think teams would want their practice squad players in another city learning a different playbook and not practicing and learning their own. Won't happen.

Not necessarily. Say for example the Cowboys have a UFL affiliate in San Antonio. The Cowboys hire the coaching staff for the San Antonio team, and install their offense and defensive systems . I know in the NBA, the San Antonio Spurs have a NBDL(minor league team), the Austin Toros, and the Toros run the same system as the Spurs. So when the Spurs want to bring a player up to their team, that player already knows the Spurs system. So theoretically the Cowboys could run a similar system if they wanted to become affiliated with an UFL team.

 

[jjktkk]

I broke it down trying to keep travel minimal but really isn't possible.

Ari-SD
Oak-SF
Den-Sea
KC-STL
Dal-Hou
NO-Tenn
Minn-Cinn
GB-Buff
NYG-NE
Det-Ind
Chi-Cle
Phi-Pit
Car-NYJ
Bal-DC
Atl-Jax
Mia-TB

16 regional teams fielded with players from the associated teams

I seriously doubt that the Houston Texans would allow the Cowboys to have a UFL team there. Not to mention the fact that A UFL team would have a hard time competing with the Texans. San Antonio and Austin would be better options IMO.

 

[casmith07]

I seriously doubt that the Houston Texans would allow the Cowboys to have a UFL team there. Not to mention the fact that A UFL team would have a hard time competing with the Texans. San Antonio and Austin would be better options IMO.

I think you misread his post - these are simply the teams that would share a developmental affiliate.

The Cowboys and Texans, for example, would share the San Antonio franchise for developmental players.

It allows you to minimize travel for coaching staffs and players between their D-league club and NFL club.

 

[CowboysFan02]

Football is totally different than those sports. Teams were reluctant to send guys to nfle even when the nfl was in offseason. They will want those guys practicing with the rest of the squad learning their playbook from their coaches. This is really common sense stuff.

Well if each team has a farm team, what is to keep the NFL from saying that each farm team has to use a similar(or the same) playbook as their NFL team? In the NHL their farm teams often times use the same system as their NHL team.