Reputation vs. Reality

[rcaldw]

I know that what I'm about to post is heresy to some, but nonetheless I've been thinking it and so I'll throw it out for you guys to tear me up about it

First, let me preface it by saying that as soon as Roger the Dodger came on to the Cowboys roster he was my favorite player. As a kid I searched for his football cards, wanted his jersey, the whole nine yards. When he retired #12 was my favorite player, and to this day I think he was as good as they come.

But I've been watching a lot of old games lately. And I've not just watched Rogers average games, I've watched his best games.

1. The 1971 Super Bowl Win over Miami - He was MVP
2. The 1977 Super Bowl Win over Denver
3. The 1975 Hail Mary Game
4. The 1979 thriller over Washington to end the regular season.
5. The Super Bowl loss to the Steelers in 1978
6. 1970 Monday Night game versus the Giants
7. The 1976 NFC Championship loss to the Rams
8. The 1978 NFC Championship win over the Rams

So, I have those performances FRESH on my mind. I've just watched them.

I'm telling you, for all of my love and admiration of Roger Staubach, he was not as good as Troy Aikman. I know that some will STRONGLY disagree. That is fine by me. I say to you, GO WATCH THE GAMES AGAIN.

Roger played well, and he played well coming down the stretch in big games. But I'm telling you he also put us behind the 8 ball in some of those same games. He was a great player, but he wasn't better than Aikman. Aikman was just a lot more efficient and consistent.

 

[RCowboyFan]

I don't about that comparison since I have never watched Staubach live ( old enough to have done that, but wasn't in the country to watch football).

But I remember the battles I have had with quite a few Cowboys fans during late 90s about Aikman. Its was such a shame Cowboys drafted so bad after 94-95 season. It really distroyed or shortened Aikman's career.

Heck Ogletree right now would have been a great no. 2 for Aikman. He had such a bad cast of WR/TE after Jay left, except for brief 3-4 games when Irvin and Rocket Ismail played together.

I could never forget the pathetic fandom booing Aikman and wanting Randal Cunnighnam to play. Pretty sure most of those fans don't have clue, even if it hit them on their heads. To this day, I can never forgive those idiots.

Not that Aikman was great towards end of career, but at the same time, his cast of characters had a big hand in that. Anyway, sorry didn't mean to throw your original topic off.

 

[silver]

Roger was clutch man. He was best when the game was on the line. I just remember we were never out of the game when Roger was there. It didn't matter what the score was.

 

[Tricericon]

Keep in mind that the defenses you are watching at the same time have, shall we say, some very significant structural advantages that Aikman's opposition did not.

Just for some context, the world record for QB rating as of Rog's retirement (guess who held it, btw) would have been only somewhat above average in the quintessential Aikman season of 1992 - that's how much the offense vs. defense balance shifted between Rog's time and Aikman's.

I don't see any reason to say Aikman, great as he was, was even as good as Staubach, let alone better.

 

[bbgun]

In defense of Roger, Troy never had to face a powerhouse like the 70s Steelers (no, the Niners don't count). That 1976 playoff game vs the Rams was not for the championship, but you're right, Roger was putrid in that one. For all his greatness, Rayfield Wright was terrible in the Hail Mary game and Super Bowl X, which added to Roger's woes.

 

[RS12]

Unfortunately Roger didnt play in SB5, and the two SBs they lost were to the Steelers, some of the greatest teams/ defenses ever by a total of 7 points.

 

[bbullard33]

They were both great players from different eras.

In respect to Staubach, when the game was on the line and Dallas was behind with a few minutes to play, you almost felt sorry for the other team. You knew, you just knew, when Dallas got the ball, that Roger was going to take them down the field and score to win the game. You could see it in the other team as well, THEY knew it was coming. He was called Captain America for a reason. Not because he had the most talent, but because gave everything he had in every situation. He was a true warrior.
:starspin

 

[Sarge]

Roger was Cool Hand Luke. You always knew you were in the game, no matter how far behind we were. He was a great leader and was very vocal and very spirited (I wish Romo had more of those qualities quite frankly - that's another story for another day).

He and Aikman really weren't very much alike. Both excellent QB's in different eras.

 

[CoCo]

I don't about that comparison since I have never watched Staubach live ( old enough to have done that, but wasn't in the country to watch football).

But I remember the battles I have had with quite a few Cowboys fans during late 90s about Aikman. Its was such a shame Cowboys drafted so bad after 94-95 season. It really distroyed or shortened Aikman's career.

Heck Ogletree right now would have been a great no. 2 for Aikman. He had such a bad cast of WR/TE after Jay left, except for brief 3-4 games when Irvin and Rocket Ismail played together.

I could never forget the pathetic fandom booing Aikman and wanting Randal Cunnighnam to play. Pretty sure most of those fans don't have clue, even if it hit them on their heads. To this day, I can never forgive those idiots.

Not that Aikman was great towards end of career, but at the same time, his cast of characters had a big hand in that. Anyway, sorry didn't mean to throw your original topic off.

Never booed Aikman and I never would.

But we couldn't protect him that last year and he was picking up concussions on the mildest of hits. Not to mention his back troubles. Playing Cunningham was the right choice.

 

[GoCowboysGo]

I am lucky to have watched most of Staubach's games (from a very early age), and all of Aikman's games. It's very difficult to compare those two because of the era in which each of them played.

Staunch led his teams to 8 (?) NFC Championship games, winning 5 and going 2-3 in Super Bowls. That's a lot of winning for one QB! Could have been more if coach Landry not been so reluctant to start Staubach sooner instead of using Morton as much as he did.

OTOH, Aikman led his team to 3 Super Bowl wins and his offense was a timing based O, a perfect system for a QB as "immobile" as Aikman.

I loved both, but Staubach, in my eyes, transformed the franchise from "next years champions" to a Super Bowl contender for a decade. I don't see a way for any QB to ever do what Staubach did for his franchise, especially given the nature of free agency.

Sorry this was long, this is a fun conversation while awaiting he regular season! Thanks OP! Hope my stats were correct, I'm typing this while on the autobahn in Germany (someone else is driving)! Tschuss!!

 

[YosemiteSam]

None of you know what you're talking about! Romo is GOD!

 

[landroverking]

Different times & rules. While I too think Troy was better I also feel Roger could have done well in the 90s. Not sure Troy would have done well in the 70s when DBs could really push the wideouts around until the ball was in the air.

 

[burmafrd]

They were virtually perfect QBs for their times. But I too feel Roger could have done better in Troys time then Troy could have in Rogers time.

Prior to 1978, you could all but mug the WR. Remember Jack Tatum and company? 1978 and 1979, the last two years of Roger's career, he had all time numbers. And he had taken at least as much punishment as Troy had.

 

[TNCowboy]

I was young when I saw Staubach, but I still hold him a notch above Aikman. Both are deserved HOFers, regardless.

Roger had some good WRs, but no matter how much people complain about Drew Pearson being left out of the ROH, Pearson couldn't carry Michael Irvin's gym bag. Irvin is, in my opinion, one of the 3 or 4 greatest WRs of all time. I remember a stat late in the year one season where a Cowboys broadcast claimed that Aikman was completing nearly 80% of passes targeted to Michael Irvin. That's a huge advantage for Aikman.

Staubach also didn't have the luxury, for most of his career, to simply turn and hand the ball off to an all time great RB. He didn't get Dorsett til his last few years, while Aikman had Smith for the bulk of his career. To say nothing of Aikman having perennially the best OL in football in front of him.

Aikman had some stinkers, too. He was hardly stellar in his last 2 SBs, though to be fair, he says he was suffering from the concussion in the '93 SB to the extent that he doesn't remember the game. As great as he was in the '94 championship game, he still played an awful 1st quarter, without which we'd now have 6 SBs and would've won 4 in a row.

That doesn't denigrate Aikman or how great he was. He made those guys better and they made him better. But when you watch Staubach, you have to keep in mind that he was The Man on the Dallas offense for most of his career, while Aikman only had to be one of three.

 

[Doomsday101]

Loved both but different types of QB's. I think Troy was the better passer of the 2 but Roger in some ways was more dangerous.

I think the world of both and feel lucky to have watched them play for the Cowboys

 

[Hostile]

I've actually never worried about it one way or the other. Both were great. I hold Roger a click higher because he was my first hero. Consider how many great QBs over the years have said Roger was their hero growing up.

Elway
Young
Marino
Montana
Aikman

 

[zrinkill]

I think Troy Aikman was the more skilled QB

I think Roger was the more skilled Football player.

Their play styles were so different it is hard to compare them.

 

[THUMPER]

Aikman was by far the better passer, the most accurate QB I've ever seen, but Roger was the better leader IMO. The confidence that the team had in him was incredible.

When you heard those guys talk about him after the game, that all they needed to do was get the ball back so Roger could have a chance to win the game, that said it all about him. They were positive that with him in the game they had the best chance to win it.

Not that Aikman wasn't a good leader or that the team didn't have confidence in him but I rank Staubach ahead of EVERY QB that ever played in that respect, he was THAT good!

I loved both guys but Roger was the QB when I was in high school so he holds a deeper place in my heart having been a hero for me all these years.

Staubach had some horrible games and some great ones but it's the games where we were down late with no chance to win it and he somehow came through that makes the difference.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Aikman was by far the better passer, the most accurate QB I've ever seen, but Roger was the better leader IMO. The confidence that the team had in him was incredible.

I usually stay out of debates like this as I see them mostly pointless, but I don't know about the bolded.

Troy was literally like a field general when he was on the field. All business and always barking orders and getting on guys that weren't getting the job done. Troy was the epitome of leadership on the field. He wanted and expected the offense to run like a well oiled machine. Roger did too, but he was considerably more relaxed and easy going compared to Troy.

I've also noticed that Peyton Manning has the same demeanor / leadership as Troy had on the field.

Either way, both were great QBs and both are Cowboys legends.

 

[Doomsday101]

Aikman was by far the better passer, the most accurate QB I've ever seen, but Roger was the better leader IMO. The confidence that the team had in him was incredible.

When you heard those guys talk about him after the game, that all they needed to do was get the ball back so Roger could have a chance to win the game, that said it all about him. They were positive that with him in the game they had the best chance to win it.

Not that Aikman wasn't a good leader or that the team didn't have confidence in him but I rank Staubach ahead of EVERY QB that ever played in that respect, he was THAT good!

I loved both guys but Roger was the QB when I was in high school so he holds a deeper place in my heart having been a hero for me all these years.

Staubach had some horrible games and some great ones but it's the games where we were down late with no chance to win it and he somehow came through that makes the difference.

I agree. I would also add Roger helped the Cowboys with pretty much 2 different teams. When you look at the 1st SB win with WR core of Hayes, Alworth, TE Ditka and RB of Thomas and Hill that was a different group than what we would see later win SB vs Denver