ROLB does not necessarily equal WOLB

[theogt]

I'm no expert here but I believe linebackers face somewhat different types of blocks than DE's do. They must learn pursuit paths, methods of playing in different defenses and rushes (different from DE's), tackling in space, blitzing techniques, and covering and intercepting passes. All of this seems quite different to me and not learned overnight.

Listen to BP's last press conference.

 

[lspain1]

Have you read training camp practice reports 1 -14 over the prior week?

Yes I have. What is your point?

 

[Dough Boy]

Yes I have. What is your point?

If you've read the reports, then your questions are even less logical. Why are you asking how is Ellis doing, if you read the reports. His play in practice as well as the scrimmage would lead you to believe that he is adjusting to the new position as planned. I'm not ready to say he's going to the Pro Bowl, but I think he is playing well enough to merrit a longer look.

 

[theogt]

Listen to BP's last press conference.

Actually, it was the 8/7 press conference about 12 minutes in.

 

[jt40]

True true.

A couple of posters - who were on the Manny Lawson bandwagon - tried to argue that there are no more WOLB/SOLB's anymore, that there is only ROLB/LOLB in today's NFL.

The cowboys mainly did that with Ware last year but ONLY cuz he was a rookie learning a new position.

I've got to disagree with you on this one. It would have been easier on Ware last year if they made him follow the te around and play a strongside lb position. D Ware is the ROLB, he stays on that side, te or not. The WILL LB is considered the weak ILB. THis is what Bradie James played last year when Dat was playing MLB, and what B Carp has been playing in camp.

The confusion comes from the differences in 3-4 and 4-3 defense. I believe in general 4-3 defenses have a SOLB, MLB, WOLB while 3-4 defenses (us for sure) have a LOLB, WILB, MILB, ROLB

 

[theogt]

I've got to disagree with you on this one. It would have been easier on Ware last year if they made him follow the te around and play a strongside lb position. D Ware is the ROLB, he stays on that side, te or not. The WILL LB is considered the weak ILB. THis is what Bradie James played last year when Dat was playing MLB, and what B Carp has been playing in camp.

The confusion comes from the differences in 3-4 and 4-3 defense. I believe in general 4-3 defenses have a SOLB, MLB, WOLB while 3-4 defenses (us for sure) have a LOLB, WILB, MILB, ROLB

Yes, this absolutely correct. Multiple posters tried for weeks to pound this into Rack's head.

 

[Dough Boy]

Have we discussed whether Ellis can play the OLB position in this defense? I see Ellis as an intelligent player with good skills but making the change from DE to LB seems like a pretty big move to me. Clearly Parcells thinks Ellis can be effective in this role, but how many other players have made this type of transition at this point in their career?

Per Mickey on the Ticket Today:

Guys, this Ellis thing is not an experiment anymore. He is the first team LB. He looks more comfortable and is making plays. It is obvious he is picking this move up. When they try to run the ball wide, given his DE experience, he is stringing that thing out very wide.

it would appear that he is having some success at the new position.

 

[lspain1]

If you've read the reports, then your questions are even less logical. Why are you asking how is Ellis doing, if you read the reports. His play in practice as well as the scrimmage would lead you to believe that he is adjusting to the new position as planned. I'm not ready to say he's going to the Pro Bowl, but I think he is playing well enough to merrit a longer look.

I've been happy to hear he's doing well in camp but I don't think his performance in camp makes my question illogical. If Ellis successfully makes this transition to LB (including the pass responsibilities), my guess is this makes him a very special player. I'm not sure he was all that special a DE (net elite although clearly solid). Mickey is gushing over his performance but I'll wait to see how he does in a game before I start putting him in Canton.

 

[theogt]

I've been happy to hear he's doing well in camp but I don't think his performance in camp makes my question illogical. If Ellis successfully makes this transition to LB (including the pass responsibilities), my guess is this makes him a very special player. I'm not sure he was all that special a DE (net elite although clearly solid). Mickey is gushing over his performance but I'll wait to see how he does in a game before I start putting him in Canton.

Lots of DEs make the transition to OLB in a 3-4. I'd assume a veteran would have quite the advantage over rookies who have successfully made the transition.

 

[Rack]

Rack, that was the point of this thread. The strong and weak distinctions aren't accurate. Parcells quickly informed the reporter in the press conference of this. Ellis is playing LOLB. Thank you for informing everyone that it was YOU who didn't get it.

If Ellis is ONLY playing LOLB it's ONLY cuz he's learning a new position.

Again, YOU are the one that doesn't get it.

I've got to disagree with you on this one. It would have been easier on Ware last year if they made him follow the te around and play a strongside lb position.

I refuse to believe you are THAT ignorant. There's no way playing SOLB all the time would of been easier on Ware.

D Ware is the ROLB, he stays on that side, te or not.

WRONG. Parcells said last year that the reason they kept him mostly on the right side is cuz he was learning a new position. But even with that he STILL played both sides at time (depending on where the TE lined up).

The WILL LB is considered the weak ILB. THis is what Bradie James played last year when Dat was playing MLB

This is all the proof needed to prove you don't know what the hell you're talking about.


There is no "MLB" in a 3-4 defense. And James played MIKE last year (same as this year). Dat was the Jack.

Yes, this absolutely correct. Multiple posters tried for weeks to pound this into Rack's head.

You agreed with him, and he was wrong.


You know what that means? Hmmm? That means YOU are also wrong, Chico.

 

[dargonking999]

point still made though, in the 3-4 there is no MLB there is ILB.

 

[Rack]

point still made though, in the 3-4 there is no MLB there is ILB.

There is a WILB and a SILB just like there's a SOLB and a WOLB.

 

[junk]

While the defense that Dallas employs doesn't shift the outside linebackers according to the position of the TE, the side with the RT is often considered the "strong" side (or LOLB).

Look around the league and look at players playing RT and LT historically. Typically, your RT is the heavier run blocking tackle while the LT is the more agile pass blocker.

Much of this also has to do with having your best pass rusher coming from what is typically the QB's blind side.

I am sure much of this revolves around the old Lawson vs. Carpenter debate, but even Parcells said they liked Lawson but felt he was a couple years away from being ready. My interpretation of that is that he wasn't physically ready to handle the POA at an OLB position.

Additionally, Carpenter can play inside as well and is a terrific fit in the nickel. I suspect Lawson would have had to be a hand on the ground end in the 4 man nickel fronts.

 

[The Realist]

While the defense that Dallas employs doesn't shift the outside linebackers according to the position of the TE, the side with the RT is often considered the "strong" side (or LOLB).

Look around the league and look at players playing RT and LT historically. Typically, your RT is the heavier run blocking tackle while the LT is the more agile pass blocker.

Much of this also has to do with having your best pass rusher coming from what is typically the QB's blind side.

I am sure much of this revolves around the old Lawson vs. Carpenter debate, but even Parcells said they liked Lawson but felt he was a couple years away from being ready. My interpretation of that is that he wasn't physically ready to handle the POA at an OLB position.

Additionally, Carpenter can play inside as well and is a terrific fit in the nickel. I suspect Lawson would have had to be a hand on the ground end in the 4 man nickel fronts.

More to the point, they would have "had to move Ware to the strong side" per Jerry. Wanted to keep Ware on the QB's vulnerable side.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Speaking of Lawson... anyone heard how he's doing over in San Fran?

The silence is deafening.

Someone had to say it.