Rookie HCs in the Super Bowl era

[Bobhaze]

That has a lot to do with age they're a lot more cautious with a guy like Brandon Cooks or Gilmore not gonna give them bigger money and resign them because of Age,

Pickens is still possibly in his golden years in his peak years, It's possible we haven't seen the best of him.

we literally made a trade for Cooper and then signed him to a very big contract.. to say it won't happen is as silly as saying it will happen, we'll find out stay tuned he's first going to have to stay on the straight and narrow not cause trouble put up big numbers or at least significant numbers and then he's going to have to not demand to be paid for more than he's worth..

If it comes together it's not unrealistic to think that he won't get a contract here and that he won't get signed but there's also precedent that they'll have to let him walk franchise tag him, get something in return..

so the better he plays the bigger our return , will be it's a win -win, the man's going to play here for 17 games and we're going to have a better offense because of it there's nothing wrong with that...

I never said it wouldn’t happen or that there’s anything “wrong with that”. I did say if Pickens has a great year (which I hope he does) he will probably demand more in market value than the Jones boys will want to pay.

In the case of Amari Cooper in 2018, it’s not a great comp to Pickens in these ways:

• Pickens is expected to be the #2 receiver behind Lamb. In the 2018 trade, Cooper instantly became the Cowboys #1 receiver.
• Coop had a good year in 2018, but he didn’t finish in the top 20 in receptions or yards.
• In 2019, Cooper finished 23rd in receiving in the NFL. So his contract in 2020 was not considered “top of the market” compared to guys like Julio Jones, DeAndre Hopkins or Cooper Kupp.

Again, my point is - yes I want Pickens to have a great year. My question is, if he does, will this FO pay their second best receiver top of the market prices (even for a #2 receiver)? Maybe they will. It just seems against what they typically do.

 

[Praxit]

This post tells me that there is a chance.

..as they say, first time for everything. So we got that on our side..lol...

 

[blueblood70]

I never said it wouldn’t happen or that there’s anything “wrong with that”. I did say if Pickens has a great year (which I hope he does) he will probably demand more in market value than the Jones boys will want to pay.

In the case of Amari Cooper in 2018, it’s not a great comp to Pickens in these ways:

• Pickens is expected to be the #2 receiver behind Lamb. In the 2018 trade, Cooper instantly became the Cowboys #1 receiver.
• Coop had a good year in 2018, but he didn’t finish in the top 20 in receptions or yards.
• In 2019, Cooper finished 23rd in receiving in the NFL. So his contract in 2020 was not considered “top of the market” compared to guys like Julio Jones, DeAndre Hopkins or Cooper Kupp.

Again, my point is - yes I want Pickens to have a great year. My question is, if he does, will this FO pay their second best receiver top of the market prices (even for a #2 receiver)? Maybe they will. It just seems against what they typically do.

Look Bob I can see both sides of this he did get top money it was top 10, I don't know why I need to go from memory and I just went ahead and Googled it anyway it was one of the bigger contracts and I realized you're right he was the number one except for the fact that lamb was coming along and was going to eventually take his spot.. It was apparent but that's the only reason really they let him go I mean I know the other reasons we don't need to revisit all that but 22 million for the backup at that time would have been a lot....

Been a AMari Cooper was making top 10 money which all guys don't go for the juggler you know there are agents and players out there that actually no getting a ton of money is a ton of money you don't need to be awarded with your ego being stroked by being the top guy.

https://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver/2019

But you're correct it would have to be a perfect situation and I don't know what top number two money is but he is not as good as Higgins but if he ends up looking as good as Higgins yeah you're right maybe prices himself out of the Dallas Cowboys but if he's somewhere in that realistic range you don't think Jerry would consider 28??

If Pickens was reasonable and would take 27 million the Cowboys probably would do it if he pushes it north of 29 maybe not.. But with players like DJ Moore Brandon Iuk and Devante Smith making 27 million up to 30 million in my opinion that is where the market would be..
If he's not trying to push past those guys then there's a possibility Steven would sign him..


If you look at the breakdown of this contract it was genius and I don't even know why T Higgins would sign something with only a $30 million signing bonus something doesn't seem right here that means they can keep him for one year at 30 million and then let him walk and not have to guarantee him a dollar more..

Hell, that sounds like a Stephen Jones contract look at this breakdown...

• Total Contract Value: $115 million.
• Guaranteed Money: $30 million.
• Average Annual Salary: $28.75 million.
• Roster Bonuses: $20 million in 2025 (due 5 days after signing) and $10 million in 2026 (fully guaranteed).
• Workout Bonuses: $100,000 each year.
• Per-Game Roster Bonuses: $2 million each year.
• Base Salary (2025): $13.8 million.
• Base Salary (2026): $10.9 million.
• Base Salary (2027): $19.2 million.
• Base Salary (2028): $27.3 million.

 

[Bullflop]

One advantage that Coach Schotty has over most rookie HCs is that he already has familiarity with the Cowboys personnel. Another is the experience of the assistants that he's accumulated. Maybe that will see his initial head coaching experience being somewhat more successful than most.

In any case, it should prove interesting to take note of such happenings. Let's just wish him well, regardless of the potential outcome. The schedule he must deal with won't be any pushover.

 

[shabazz]

Back in the day, over at Austin 360, you used to be more optimistic. Times have changed, eh?

Continued optimism in the face of failure is counterintuitive.

The band continuing to play on the Titanic comes to mind

 

[805BoysInBlue]

Switzer?

 

[gtb1943]

Switzer?

won it his second year with a great team that deteriorated from that point

 

[Bobhaze]

Switzer?

From the OP: “There have been 12 rookie HCs in the 57 year modern SB era who have led their teams to a conference championship game. (If I missed someone, let me know) They are:

• 1971 Don McCafferty Baltimore Colts (won Superbowl V over the Cowboys)
• 1977 Red Miller Broncos (lost Superbowl XII to the Cowboys)
• 1989 George Seifert 49ers (won Superbowl XXIV over the Broncos)
• 1994 Barry Switzer Cowboys (lost NFC Championship to 49ers)
• 1997 Steve Mariucci 49ers (Lost NFC Championship to the Packers)
• 2002 Bill Callahan Raiders (Lost Superbowl XXXVII to the Buccaneers)
• 2006 Sean Payton Saints (Lost NFC Championship Game to bears)
• 2008 John Harbaugh Ravens (lost AFC Championship game to Steelers)
• 2009 Rex Ryan Jets (Lost AFC Championship Game to colts)
• 2009 Jim Caldwell Colts (Lost Superbowl XLIV to the Saints)
• 2011 Jim Harbaugh 49ers (lost to giants in NFC Championship Game)
• 2019 Matt Lafleur Packers (lost to niners in NFC Championship Game)”

 

[jwitten82]

Not expecting miracles this season. Nor a deep playoff run.
They are in year 2 of a soft build. And even Jerry said it, they are looking and a few years down the road.

I just want to see improvement all across the board from the last few years draft picks, and what they have this year.
Make a playoff push and even make the playoffs.
I know many do not want that, for their own reasons. To get the FO to make some drastic changes, or to get better draft picks.

I just want signs of improvement and be competitive.
I think as all teams, stay healthy. They do have enough talent to get to the playoffs. once all the players are healthy and playing. Like Overshown, Diggs, Williams. Can Revel be at his best and contribute as well.

Seems they put together a nice coaching staff. And overall fans seems to accept what they have done. OTA's start in a few days. So we will get the first glimpse at how they handle things.

Dak will be 34 years old in two years. We have no time for rebuilds

 

[Zman5]

Tom Landry wasn't a HC anywhere before becoming the HC for the Cowboys.

 

[fivetwos]

Brian Schottenheimer is the 10th head coach in the Cowboys 65 year history and the 6th Cowboys head coach of the 21st century. He’s the 9th HC Jerry has hired in 36 years as owner of the Cowboys.

Schottenheimer is only the 3rd Cowboys HC who has never been at a HC at any level before becoming an NFL head coach. The two others were Dave Campo and Jason Garrett. (Chan Gailey had been a HC in college before becoming an NFL HC)

In the 57 years of the modern Super Bowl era, there are only two rookie HCs who have ever won a SB:

• Don McAffrey, Baltimore Colts, 1971 won SB V against the Cowboys.
• George Seifert, SF 49ers, 1989 won SB XXIV against the broncos.

There have been 12 rookie HCs in the 57 year modern SB era who have led their teams to a conference championship game. (If I missed someone, let me know) They are:

• 1971 Don McCafferty Baltimore Colts (won Superbowl V over the Cowboys)
• 1977 Red Miller Broncos (lost Superbowl XII to the Cowboys)
• 1989 George Seifert 49ers (won Superbowl XXIV over the Broncos)
• 1994 Barry Switzer Cowboys (lost NFC Championship to 49ers)
• 1997 Steve Mariucci 49ers (Lost NFC Championship to the Packers)
• 2002 Bill Callahan Raiders (Lost Superbowl XXXVII to the Buccaneers)
• 2006 Sean Payton Saints (Lost NFC Championship Game to bears)
• 2008 John Harbaugh Ravens (lost AFC Championship game to Steelers)
• 2009 Rex Ryan Jets (Lost AFC Championship Game to colts)
• 2009 Jim Caldwell Colts (Lost Superbowl XLIV to the Saints)
• 2011 Jim Harbaugh 49ers (lost to giants in NFC Championship Game)
• 2019 Matt Lafleur Packers (lost to niners in NFC Championship Game)

NFL History shows: It’s hard for a rookie HC to have immediate deep playoff success unless they inherit a team with recent playoff success. Brian Schottenheimer will inherit a team that has had recent regular season success but has won two wild card games in the last 7 seasons 2018 and 2021)

I mostly like what we have done this off-season so far. Schotty will have a better hand to work with than Big Mac had in 2024. But history shows being a rookie HC in the NFL has a learning curve.

Yes but none of those guys had the great Jerry Jones building their roster.

He is in the Hall of Fame you know. Great, great football man and they “feel really good” about this years team, so we should be in fine shape.

 

[dupree89]

Yes but none of those guys had the great Jerry Jones building their roster.

He is in the Hall of Fame you know. Great, great football man and they “feel really good” about this years team, so we should be in fine shape.

jerry keeps us right around the rim

 

[fivetwos]

I like most of what’s happened this off-season. Sure beats the kamikaze off-season our GM orchestrated last year. No question it has been a feel good off-season for Cowboys fans compared to recent years.

In the end, all coaches and teams will be measured by the results they get. (I wish that were true about our front office too!) Looking forward to seeing how fast Schotty can learn and how the team will respond to the new staff.

I have a tough time commending a GM for doing what his job is….and it looking good mostly in comparison to him refusing to do anything the year before like some child.

Issue a statement that says “we are close,” then ignore the gap it implies. Basically tell fans…”we aren’t good enough and it’s going to stay that way.”

Last year was one of the more ridiculous and inexcusable things I’ve ever seen anyone pull. How do you not at least TRY, and what type of message does that send to the players?

What a mess and I bet MM couldn’t get out of the building fast enough. I’d give plenty to hear his off the record stories and that place is probably off the charts dysfunctional.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Winning the division or wild card playoff is probably our max ceiling, with 500 being our floor. Key(s) will be injuries and how well players buy into the new coaching staff.

BTW......IF we win our first two games against the Eagles and Giants, look out, the division is up for grabs IMO.

 

[jazzcat22]

Dak will be 34 years old in two years. We have no time for rebuilds

I think that was part of why jerry said that. Build now for the new QB.