Rookie Mini Camp Report

[timb2]

 

[AsthmaField]

That’s why I think the 3rd round corner (Wright) just might surprise some people… because the guy has really good movement skills for a lanky 6’4” guy. He is smooth and controlled.

If they use him to his strengths and keep him away from the wrong kind of receivers for him, he might cause some problems for opposing offenses.

It’ll be interesting to watch.

 

[fivetwos]

That’s why I think the 3rd round corner (Wright) just might surprise some people… because the guy has really good movement skills for a lanky 6’4” guy. He is smooth and controlled.

If they use him to his strengths and keep him away from the wrong kind of receivers for him, he might cause some problems for opposing offenses.

It’ll be interesting to watch.

He isnt lacking for confidence, that's for sure.

That position needs that type of swagger...even if it's only in his own head.

Many guys in the draft are still on the rise....their best ball is ahead of them, not on college tape (which is a reason scouts should scout amd coaches should coach).

I would think, barring a run of injuries, he won't be someone they count much on in 2021.

 

[AsthmaField]

He isnt lacking for confidence, that's for sure.

That position needs that type of swagger...even if it's only in his own head.

Many guys in the draft are still on the rise....their best ball is ahead of them, not on college tape (which is a reason scouts should scout amd coaches should coach).

I would think, barring a run of injuries, he won't be someone they count much on in 2021.

I agree. It probably won’t be much this season unless some guys go down. With only 53 man rosters though… it isn’t far from sitting and watching, to actually getting some live snaps.

It would probably be best for everyone if he just learns and gets stronger this year.

 

[fivetwos]

I agree. It probably won’t be much this season unless some guys go down. With only 53 man rosters though… it isn’t far from sitting and watching, to actually getting some live snaps.

It would probably be best for everyone if he just learns and gets stronger this year.

I hope he doesn't get bent out of shape on the bench with that personality....I also hope the organization sheds its dislike for trusting youngsters over street type vets with much less talent.

Although I'd say CB2 is Joseph's to lose at this early stage.

I can actually see a case where Joseph and Wrights presence pushes Brown and Lewis into being better players themselves (same in some other spots as well).

I like to dream.......yes, yes....

 

[AsthmaField]

I also hope the organization sheds its dislike for trusting youngsters over street type vets with much less talent.

Actually, this coaching staff doesn’t seem to have nearly the aversion to playing young guys as the previous coaching staffs seemed to have. Last season they played a lot of the young guys… most by necessity… but still, they had no problem sticking rookies in. It is really one of the things that I like about this staff.

They used Lamb from the jump, obviously, which anyone would have done. However, they didn’t try to ease him in gently, they just put him in and used him like anyone else. Going as far as throwing a crucial 4th down attempt to Lamb in his very first game.

UDFA Steele also started game 1. Had Collins not been hurt that wouldn’t have been the case but you just know Garrett would have started anyone else but an undrafted rookie.

Diggs started game 1. Again, they didn’t hesitate. Previous coaches would have found a way to work him in more slowly.

Gallimore didn’t start playing right away but by mid-season he was playing a lot, and was starting by the end of year 1.

Robinson played not at all but considering all of the injuries to CB’s… he probably just wasn’t ready anyway.

There was no hesitation to put in Biadasz when Looney went down and had the rookie not gotten dinged, he would have played out the season over Looney.

McGovern also played in what was essentially a rookie season.

This year, they’re clearly getting Parsons ready to go and not only will he start… but he’s going to be moved around to best utilize his freakish skills. Micah would have started with Garrett as well because he’s just so talented, but you and I both know that Garrett would have just put him at MLB and he wouldn’t be moved anywhere else to use his passrush skills. Garrett would have just said they’re taking it slow with him

Not this staff. They’re going to deploy him all over, like a secret weapon, which thrills me to no end because that’s the way I’d do it I’d I were coach.

I won’t be surprised to see Kelvin Joseph starting in game 1 either. I think they’re going to put him in, coach him up in camp and have him ready to roll in Tampa. Smart? I don’t know but that’s the way I like to see it done, personally. If they do… bravo, as far as I’m concerned.

Odighizuwa too, is going to play early and play a lot, I think. They have a plan for him and after 3 years starting at UCLA, I think he’ll be ready.

I even think that Golston is going to get snaps as a rookie. Bohanna too, but I don’t know if it’ll be right away.

The rest, I think an injury would have to happen for them to play much, but I don’t think McCarthy and Quinn would hesitate to use them if that time comes.

I do think that Ball will be a primary backup on the OL.

I love how this staff doesn’t baby the young guys. That’s how you do it, IMO.

If you’re gonna be a bear… be a grizzly.

 

[Future]

That’s why I think the 3rd round corner (Wright) just might surprise some people… because the guy has really good movement skills for a lanky 6’4” guy. He is smooth and controlled.

If they use him to his strengths and keep him away from the wrong kind of receivers for him, he might cause some problems for opposing offenses.

It’ll be interesting to watch.

This is also why using that pick on him wasn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be. It was probably a reach, but if there's a guy with upside who you like that late, it's not egregious to get him at that spot. There's also no doubt that they have a pretty specific role in mind for him. It's not like they're going to try him in the slot lol

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I hate to be that guy stating the obvious but it was two days of OTAs, without pads, 7-on-7 against other drafted and undrafted rookies.

You cannot make any definitive statements on these guys, good or bad.

When some of these guys start making noise against starting caliber NFLers in live practices I’ll take note.

 

[fivetwos]

This is also why using that pick on him wasn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be. It was probably a reach, but if there's a guy with upside who you like that late, it's not egregious to get him at that spot. There's also no doubt that they have a pretty specific role in mind for him. It's not like they're going to try him in the slot lol

Obviously height is quite important to Quinn, and I dont know how many 6'4" corners are out there.

Probably why Dallas had him graded much higher than others.

My big concern is they have obviously have acquired personnel entirely around Quinn and his scheme....and he isnt here in 2-3 years, for whatever reason.

Do we blow it all up and start over? I should hope not. That's why we need an organizational philosophy, but that may be too much to ask within Jerry's learn as you go circus.

 

[Future]

Do we blow it all up and start over? I should hope not. That's why we need an organizational philosophy, but that may be too much to ask within Jerry's learn as you go circus.

This organizational philosophy you speak of doesn't exist in the NFL.

Every team gets players that fits the coaches' schemes, and it will change when the coaches move. That's why a coach bringing in "his guys" is always the expectation.

 

[fivetwos]

This organizational philosophy you speak of doesn't exist in the NFL.

Every team gets players that fits the coaches' schemes, and it will change when the coaches move. That's why a coach bringing in "his guys" is always the expectation.

How does it make sense to spend years searching for specific players only to start again, and again?

Baltimore doesn't do that. Neither does Pittsburgh.

Having an organizational philosophy certainly does exist in certain cases.

In this case, I certainly hope that the plan for Quinns successor, whenever that may happen and for whatever reason, is someone who wants players with similar traits.

I think last year was plenty case in point for what happens when the new guy tries to run his system with the last guys players.

 

[Future]

How does it make sense to spend years searching for specific players only to start again, and again?

Baltimore doesn't do that. Neither does Pittsburgh.

Having an organizational philosophy certainly does exist in certain cases.

In this case, I certainly hope that the plan for Quinns successor, whenever that may happen and for whatever reason, is someone who wants players with similar traits.

I think last year was plenty case in point for what happens when the new guy tries to run his system with the last guys players.

They haven't changed their head coaches. Baltimore certainly changed what it's looking for in a WR this offseason anyway.

Last line is my point...it really undermines what you're saying.

 

[fivetwos]

They haven't changed their head coaches. Baltimore certainly changed what it's looking for in a WR this offseason anyway.

Last line is my point...it really undermines what you're saying.

I like you and your posts in general, and tend to agree with your thoughts...

Maybe we are misunderstanding each other a bit.

We are clearly prioritizing guys that have long arms on the DL and guys that are tall for DBs.

The question has been raised on how early some of our draftees were taken, so we must value those types more than other teams.

If the Quinn thing works and he gets another HC gig....all fine, you hire his #2 and carry on.

If this whole thing blows up in a bad way, are we to start all over yet again with a DC that has no use for guys that are here because he doesn't care about arm length or height?

Maybe it's semantics, and maybe there's a fine line between an organizational philosophy and consistency, and/or the easier path to sustained success.

 

[Future]

If this whole thing blows up in a bad way, are we to start all over yet again with a DC that has no use for guys that are here because he doesn't care about arm length or height?

Maybe it's semantics, and maybe there's a fine line between an organizational philosophy and consistency, and/or the easier path to sustained success.

You are talking about a philosophy that does not actually exist anywhere, and overstating the utility of players with longer arms. It's not like a new coach is just going to cut in and cut all the long corners, but every coach drafts guys that fit his profile.

 

[fivetwos]

You are talking about a philosophy that does not actually exist anywhere, and overstating the utility of players with longer arms. It's not like a new coach is just going to cut in and cut all the long corners, but every coach drafts guys that fit his profile.

Well I guess that's what I mean....

No assistant coach should be given that type of pull, only to change things up completely in a year or two, which requires another several years to accomplish, only to do the same thing again.

The same thing has bee happening here for a while now, beginning with signing Carr and trading up Claiborne, only to switch to a scheme that devalues corners a year later.

The scouting department should have a certain philosophy, and the hiring of coaches should coincide thereof.

I don't think that the case in Dallas.

I do think it exists in places like New England, Seattle, Pittsburgh, Baltimore....etc.

Wouldn't mind keeping that kind of company....and not starting completely over every time a certain defensive scheme is the scapegoat for the lack of success in Dallas.

 

[Future]

Well I guess that's what I mean....

No assistant coach should be given that type of pull, only to change things up completely in a year or two, which requires another several years to accomplish, only to do the same thing again.

The same thing has bee happening here for a while now, beginning with signing Carr and trading up Claiborne, only to switch to a scheme that devalues corners a year later.

The scouting department should have a certain philosophy, and the hiring of coaches should coincide thereof.

I don't think that the case in Dallas.

I do think it exists in places like New England, Seattle, Pittsburgh, Baltimore....etc.

Wouldn't mind keeping that kind of company....and not starting completely over every time a certain defensive scheme is the scapegoat for the lack of success in Dallas.

I think you're really just overexaggerating all of this. Brandon Carr and Morris Claiborne fit any scheme. They never devalued corners...

And again, you are referencing places where the coaching staff has largely remained in place, not to mention the fact that Carroll has done a terrible job acquiring talent.

 

[fivetwos]

I think you're really just overexaggerating all of this. Brandon Carr and Morris Claiborne fit any scheme. They never devalued corners...

And again, you are referencing places where the coaching staff has largely remained in place, not to mention the fact that Carroll has done a terrible job acquiring talent.

Don't agree at all on the first part. Kiffin admitted as much, but ok if you don't recall or think I'm lying.

The second part supports my point. The HC didn't change but many assistants did. The team from there did not go hiring a DC that wanted to run a completely different scheme that they didn't have the personnel for.

Consistency within so as to not have to start over constantly with who wants what type of player.

Dallas has been all over the map on this since Wade Phillips was shown the door.

 

[Future]

Don't agree at all on the first part. Kiffin admitted as much, but ok if you don't recall or think I'm lying.

The second part supports my point. The HC didn't change but many assistants did. The team from there did not go hiring a DC that wanted to run a completely different scheme that they didn't have the personnel for.

Consistency within so as to not have to start over constantly with who wants what type of player.

Dallas has been all over the map on this since Wade Phillips was shown the door.

I should say, didn't devalue them to the point that neither Carr or Claiborne didn't fit or whatever. It's not like they were starting over at corner

Doesn't matter. In Pitt, Tomlin runs the defense and the offense has totally changed. In NE, Bill runs the defense and Josh the offense. In Baltimore, Harbaugh and Martindale have been there for more than a decade. Those teams have had consistency in coaching so the profiles they go after hasn't changed.

I mean it's fine to say that going from one scheme to another has difficulties, but that has absolutely nothing to do with an organizational philosophy, and there's no such thing as an organization that doesn't make those types of changes. If there was some consistent philosophy, folks would just be complaining that the FO is doing too much to infringe on what the coaches do.

 

[xwalker]

Obviously height is quite important to Quinn, and I dont know how many 6'4" corners are out there.

Probably why Dallas had him graded much higher than others.

My big concern is they have obviously have acquired personnel entirely around Quinn and his scheme....and he isnt here in 2-3 years, for whatever reason.

Do we blow it all up and start over? I should hope not. That's why we need an organizational philosophy, but that may be too much to ask within Jerry's learn as you go circus.

Joseph is 5'11-1/2" with average arm length.

It's not as if they removed all CBs from their draft board that didn't have above average length.

Kris Richard wanted big CBs.

Last year's staff preferred big CBs.

Will McClay has often referenced height for CBs and arm-length with regards to players in general since he got the top talent evaluation job in 2014.
- Marinelli only cared about 1st step quickness for DLinemen and didn't seem to have an opinion on DBs.

About the only player that appears to have been pushed out based on physical measurements is Antwaun Woods (6'0", short arms).

The Cowboys re-signed CB Lewis (5-10) after Dan Quinn was hired.

If Anae does not make the team, it will be impossible to know if short arms was a factor because the previous D-Coordinator never played him either.

 

[speedkilz88]

The "seahawk" requirements for CBs is for the outside CBs. Seattle drafted Tre Brown 5096 185 arms: 30 3/8 this year. But their requirements are basically 6-0 200 arms: 32". Kelvin Jenkins was 5114 197 arms: 31 7/8 - extremely close to all.