Rookie Zach Martin and Rookie Larry Allen

[BourbonBalz]

Tell that to John Jurkovic.

You're talking about a playoff game against the Peckers. Nothing dirty, just *** kicking physical.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Did I miss something? We are comparing Martin with Larry Allen?

Yeah, like Martin rookie year vs. Allen rookie year. Did you have trouble understanding the clear-as-daylight thread title or thread body?

 

[WV Cowboy]

Yeah, like Martin rookie year vs. Allen rookie year. Did you have trouble understanding the clear-as-daylight thread title or thread body?

Saw all that, understood all that, ... like I said, Martin -vs- Allen?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Martin is not Allen. I love Martin but Larry Allen was something special. No lineman, on any team, in todays NFL is on the same level as Larry Allen IMO.

If you want to compare Martin to a great player (not named Larry Allen) I think the best comparison, that I have seen, is Logan Mankins. Mankins will, IMO, be a first year HOFer when he decides to hang it up so that comparison is no slight. Mankins and Martin remind me of each other at similar stages of their careers.

That, to me, is a very good comparison.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Saw all that, understood all that, ... like I said, Martin -vs- Allen?

OK. So it is good. I think.

 

[LatinMind]

Something about Larry Allen, his son committed to Harvard University. Over Pac12 schools.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No, their rookie years are not the same. Larry Allen was physically stronger then virtually anybody he played. He was also faster and quicker. He was not as technically sound as Martin is right now. Martin is a superior OL in that regard, at similar stages of their careers but Martin does have trouble, at times, against DLs who get their hands on him and just physically move him. That was not Allen. They are different players with different skills and weaknesses.

 

[RS12]

I would compare them to two former Patriots. LA reminded me of John Hannah except more athletic. Hannah rarely lost one on one battles and could get to the second level and clean up. Martin reminds of Logan Mankins, supreme technician and star on the second level. Broaddus said it best, pre injury Martin was a high light reel on the second level. All IMO.

 

[NEODOG]

You're talking about a playoff game against the Peckers. Nothing dirty, just *** kicking physical.

That was a **** play.... He dove at him from behind. Changed my opinion about Williams instantly.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Larry Allen was a talented Deion Sanders trapped in a fat mans body. Thus he had amazing strength and speed for someone his size.

 

[perrykemp]

That was a **** play.... He dove at him from behind. Changed my opinion about Williams instantly.

It wasn't illegal at the time (it is now) but it wasn't William's finest moment.

 

[Kaiser]

I agree with everyone here, Martin is an All Pro and will be for many years but Larry Allen was a freak of nature.

To me the definitive play of Allen's career wasn't that INT with the 49ers, it was a play against the Raiders. I doubt I can find a clip because it was a preseason game but a Raider LB got a pick and had beaten everyone to the edge. Allen couldn't get to him to tackle him and lunged to get close, then swung his arm like a club. He hit the LB in the chest with his forearm, off balance and off his feet. It was the kind of play that if most players did it, it wouldn't even slow the LB down because the LB was running at full speed.

Allen knocked the LB backwards swinging one arm at him. The refs threw a flag and they showed the replay several times, the ref just assumed that Allen had to have grabbed his jersey because under the normal laws of physics one player doesn't knock another off his feet just using his forearm alone.

 

[jobberone]

Martin is in the top in pass blocking at #7. The OL as a whole though is at #17 with an ASR of over 5 about the same as last year. Run blocking we are at #2 in the league. IIRC, we've given up roughly 30 sacks which is middlin. So Martin is doing well overall but the OL in general is having some problems with stunts, games, twists yada. Their ASR is likely lower than you'd expect due to Romo being evasive but that's a guess albeit a good one IMO.

Frederick and Martin are way ahead of the curve in learning the game esp in run blocking. To my eyes they are improving overall in pass blocking. They're just a tad inconsistent.

To me Martin deserves his PB but he's still on a learning curve for parts of the game. BTW, he's one of the few Gs in the NFL with a positive # for screens.

I'm excited to see them develop further. Lord knows what their ceiling is.

 

[SoBlue128]

I could have sworn Larry Allen had to come into the SF NFC Champ and really struggled. I was pretty young so maybe confused.

 

[Roadtrip635]

No, their rookie years are not the same. Larry Allen was physically stronger then virtually anybody he played. He was also faster and quicker. He was not as technically sound as Martin is right now. Martin is a superior OL in that regard, at similar stages of their careers but Martin does have trouble, at times, against DLs who get their hands on him and just physically move him. That was not Allen. They are different players with different skills and weaknesses.

This is probably the best description about where the two stand in similar points in their careers.

Martin's early success is in large part to sound fundamentals and technique. He's a strong smart player. Allen had strong fundamentals, but not as polished as Martin at the same point. Allen was an absolute physical freak, it's just so hard to fathom how a man that big and strong could also be as quick and nimble as he was.

Here's a highlight vid with his 700+ ib bench press, the rundown and highlight from NFL's Top 100 players. My favorite part is when John Randle, who was a huge trash talker, says you didn't taunt Larry, you were nice to Larry, you didn't want to make Larry mad.





Here's a Cowboy drive all behind Allen, with Madden doing the commentary. Good stuff....

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000221061/Larry-Allen-dominates-Colts-in-1999

 

[Fletch]

You spelled Smith wrong.

No, you merely spelled Martin wrong. Don't let the huge contact fool ya. I love Smith, but Martin is already having a better rookie year than Smith did. Yes, different positions, but Martin can play more than one if needed... pretty confident of that.

Hey, we're splitting hairs right? Just thankful they are both Cowboys! Merry Christmas!

 

[joseephuss]

It wasn't illegal at the time (it is now) but it wasn't William's finest moment.

Is it illegal? Shanahan's and Kubiak's offensive lines do that type of cut blocking all the time. Everyone complains about it, but I don't recall any rules changes being made as a result.

 

[joseephuss]

I could have sworn Larry Allen had to come into the SF NFC Champ and really struggled. I was pretty young so maybe confused.

He played that game with a sprained ankle.

 

[YosemiteSam]

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

No sacrilege intended. I don't remember much about the early year(s) of Larry Allen. I don't recall him starting as a rookie early or getting playing time until an injury on the line or something. Memory isn't too clear on his early days as a Cowboy. Zach Martin sure looks dominant out there. Anyone remember Larry Allen's first year or two? I wonder how Martin compares. Would it be fair to say Martin is more polished and refined in technique than Allen but not as strong in their rookie years.

I'm interested in rookie and second year comparisons of Martin and Allen. Yes, Allen was the most dominant OL ever. We all know that.

allen was a beast even in his rookie year. martin is close but not as a high ceiling as allen. they moved allen around the OL and he just played great anywhere they put him, a lot of it due to his shear strength and athleticism. Again, martin is great. he is a great technician and smart but not quite as strong.