Roster Rundown: David Arkin

[TheCount]

Or I can read the posts and point and laugh at utterly ridiculous nonsense.

That's an interesting approach. Is that what you do whenever someone has a different opinion from your own?

 

[InmanRoshi]

I can make the same claim about you.

I would highly doubt that you'll find me saying "Only the specific player I like is worth the 14th pick in the draft. No one else at any other position is". Because that would be really dumb.

Nor will you find me so in love with a Pet Cat that it shades every opinion of every post I make on the team.

 

[SMCowboy]

Instead what I see is strictly a 'need' approach, settling for a lesser player because the defense sucked while missing out on a player widely regarded as 'can't miss', 'day one starter' and 'Pro Bowl talent'.

So when Charlie Casserly has Dontari Poe and Michael Brockers being selected by teams OTHER than the Dallas Cowboys ahead of DeCastro. And when Bucky Brooks has Melvin Ingram and Dontari Poe being drafted ahead of DeCastro. As well as when Gil Brandt has Melvin Ingram, Dre Kirkpatrick, and Michael Brockers all ranked ahead of DeCastro on his top 100 board that means nothing, they are all reaches and Charlie Casserly and Gil Brandt who both have spent most of their careers in NFL front offices don't know anything about who the top prospects are?

Or how about when Frank Coyle says Fletcher Cox is

He fits all 32 NFL defensive fronts and is a top 10 value here who probably is selected in the top 15 overall choices.

He has no idea what he is talking about, and Cox would be a definite reach and "strictly a 'need' approach, settling for a lesser player because the defense sucked".

Or how about when Frank Coyle says this about Fletcher Cox:

He is similar to Darnell Dockett in size, AA and versatility, in addition to their rare combination of quickness and power. He is at a similar LOD to that Pro Bowl defender at the same stage, though he has more upside potential. He responded with a big final season that established him as a blue chip NFL prospect. This is a unique defender who is capable of being a difference maker with early impact ability on either front line. Athletic tackle with the skill set to become a rookie starter after being battle tested in the tough SEC where he showed dominant talent vs NFL caliber linemen. Top 10 value with mid round prospect overall. The most NFL ready defensive linemen in this class and capable of being an immediate impact starter. Clubs like the Dolphins, Bengals and Seahawks are highly interested in the top half of 1st round. Athletic defender with impact ability and future Pro Bowl regular.

 

[jterrell]

Wow, what a surprise that a rookie from Directional Nowhereville A&T, who everyone said was going to need a few years to develop, who was given no offseason program and no rookie mini-camps, wasn't ready to play right away as a rookie. He must be a bum, and it's time to run him out of town

If you don' t have the ability/patience/vision to develop small school projects, don't bother drafting them. You're yourself and the player a disservice. Save them for the big boy organizations who know what they're doing. Howard Mudd and Alex Gibbs wouldn't even start to evaluate Arkin until he's had two full offseasons under his belt.

EXACTLY!

We drafted a guy everyone knew was not strong enough and hadn't faced NFL caliber DL yet. We loved his work ethic, upside and attitude.

He had never been in an NFL weight program or anything like it and yet some goofball writer and short-sighted fans have him as a bust before he can complete his first off-season program?

good grief. These same people would have cut Yu Darvish after the 1st inning last night. Give the kid time.

notes: Kowalski "beat out" Arkin because he can play Center. That wasn't much of a contest when the winner had to be able to play Center. Larry Allen wasn't a center either but no one complained about him at OG.

 

[burmafrd]

So when Charlie Casserly has Dontari Poe and Michael Brockers being selected by teams OTHER than the Dallas Cowboys ahead of DeCastro. And when Bucky Brooks has Melvin Ingram and Dontari Poe being drafted ahead of DeCastro. As well as when Gil Brandt has Melvin Ingram, Dre Kirkpatrick, and Michael Brockers all ranked ahead of DeCastro on his top 100 board that means nothing, they are all reaches and Charlie Casserly and Gil Brandt who both have spent most of their careers in NFL front offices don't know anything about who the top prospects are?

Or how about when Frank Coyle says Fletcher Cox is


He has no idea what he is talking about, and Cox would be a definite reach and "strictly a 'need' approach, settling for a lesser player because the defense sucked".

Or how about when Frank Coyle says this about Fletcher Cox:

Actually what Gill does anymore is list who he hears is going where. Not their real value or ability.

 

[jterrell]

I see the Livings and Bernadeau signings as replacements for Kosier and Holland. We have also released Dockery so that makes 3 OGs gone.

We have Arkin, Nagy, Livings, Bernadeau as the only OGs on the roster - a starter and a backup. The FAs were not guaranteed a starting position when they signed the contract, at least that is what Bernadeau has stated in an interview.

Arkin was seen as a guy that needed a full year to develop into a starter. He learned the playbook extremely fast because he is a quick learner and it was one of his strengths in his scouting report.

Nagy plays with great technique although he lacked strength as well so one year of training will do him wonders.

Livings was brought in because he has size, strength, and discipline that Callahan and Garrett covet in the scheme. He may need some tweaks to his game to be more consistent but that is a gamble they are willing to take. Regardless of his contract $$ that deal is strictly a 2 yr deal if he underperforms...if he sees the end of it that means he earned it.

Bernadeau is a another guy that is a veteran that can be a solid starter and possible OC if needed. He adds flexibility in that he can play both positions if called upon and may thrive in the scheme, coaching , or both.

There is competition for both spots any way you slice it. Garrett has been real clear since day 1 he took over - draft status means **** and you will earn your spot on this team. He has signed two veterans to fill some holes but in no way has declared them the starters so the young guys still have the chance to push them. It's a pretty simple plan A/B there.

Anybody else wondering about the tackle situation? Are we really going to roll with Parnell as the swing?

Dallas' top 4 INT OL IMHO are Livings, Bern, Nagy, Arkin. I think they find a way to get those 4 to games.

How?

If you play Livings, Nagy, Bern and keep Arkin as your 4th it works well enough. Bern can play OC if Nagy goes down and Arkin becomes the top OG prospect. That type of shuffling is what most teams do to get their best OL on the field. Costa and Kowalski are 5th and 6th for me.

I expect Arkin to make great leaps by week 1. Guys gain strength most readily when they first enter a true strength program. They get better more between years 1 and 2 then any other time.

 

[Stash]

I would highly doubt that you'll find me saying "Only the specific player I like is worth the 14th pick in the draft. No one else at any other position is". Because that would be really dumb.

Nor will you find me so in love with a Pet Cat that it shades every opinion of every post I make on the team.

And I can certainly see your point though it differs from my own.

My reasoning for being zoned-in on DeCastro is twofold:

1) Because the great consensue of opinion says that he is far and away the best player at his position - one the Cowboys need and have themselves struggled to find for the past decade plus.

and

2) Because he is widely considered a 'can't miss' (or as close to one as can be) prospect and a plug-and-play guy for the next decade. Claims I have not seen made about the other candidates.

Combining those two reasons, that makes my mind up that DeCastro makes the most sense for the Cowboys if he's still there at #14.

Again, just one fan's opinion on the matter.

 

[ZeroClub]

It's amazing people could convince themselves that they aren't the biggest problem on the team when we were 4th in the NFL in Offensive Passer Rating and 25th in the NFL in Defensive Passer Rating Against. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to see where the squeaky wheel is.

Historically, if there was as much outcry over the defense being bad as there has been about the offensive line this offseason, maybe we wouldn't have gone with 4 consecutive first round draft picks on offense. And there would be just as much outrcry in believing the Cowboys had "fixed" safety with Brodney Poole as believing they had "fixed" guard with Livings. Living was at least a starter last year.

When you go off on these jags, I notice you don't mention the Carr very often. It is as if that signing didn't happen ....

 

[jterrell]

I don't know what the proper 'perspective' should be if in year 2 he's not even mentioned as a possible starter.

That would mean that best case, the Cowboys get two years of contributions from Arkin before they either have to pay big or go watch him play for someone else. I'm not sure that's a great situation either.



I think it was when Colombo got hurt when Free really started to shine.

We aren't in year 2. We are in the off-season of year 1. We haven't even had Arkin's rights a full calendar year yet.

We aren't drafting DeCastro so man please just stop now. Save your whining and ruing for draft day. This one player obsession is bound to fail miserably.

 

[Stash]

We aren't in year 2. We are in the off-season of year 1. We haven't even had Arkin's rights a full calendar year yet.

And? Does it look great for his prospects that we ran out and signed not one but two guys who play his position during the first week of free agency? I'll answer it for ya, no it doesn't.

I'm not closing the book on him eother way but people are plenty justified to wonder if this is yeat another Dallas offensive line draft bust. Plenty of history to back them up.

We aren't drafting DeCastro so man please just stop now. Save your whining and ruing for draft day. This one player obsession is bound to fail miserably.

Do us all a favor Nostrodamus and save your insight for somebody who cares - as in nobody.

Unless you and Doc Brown jumped into the Delorean and fouind out already?

Fail.

 

[cowboysooner]

There are good offensive lines that spend far less draft and 2nd/3rd contract resources than ours has (Houston, Buffalo, Tennessee). There are teams with great to good offenses despite offensive lines worse than Dallas including the NYG, Detroit, Green Bay, Chicago).

However, there is not a great defense in football that has spent less resources on their defensive line. 1 decently paid contract out of 3 positions with 7th round developmental players behind them. It is the only place where we have not retained our developed talent (Canty, Bowen who make more than our 4 ends combined).

Green Bay's defense went from good to pitiful when they lost Cullen Jenkins and their safety Nick Collins, despite have star corners and 1 pass rusher. Pittsburgh has 3 first round picks plus big 2/3rd contracts invested in their front 3. San Fran has big money in their front 3 and they will probably draft some more. Their secondary was guys that Washington did not want, Buffalo did not want, and the 49ers themselves did not really want. But that front killed people. The Ravens have big money/draft invested in their front 3 and they had very little on the other side of Suggs. Houston invested big money and draft in their front 7 and got really good. The Jets are really the only good defensive team in the NFL that is great on the back end and has spent less on the front, but they just used a 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick at end and big free agent cash on their nose.

Nobody has spent more money and picks on front 4 than the Giants. They've spent on the back 4 too, but people pass on them when they get time. They have spent far less in picks and $ on the offensive line.

 

[jterrell]

And? Does it look great for his prospects that we ran out and signed not one but two guys who play his position during the first week of free agency? I'll answer it for ya, no it doesn't.

I'm not closing the book on him eother way but people are plenty justified to wonder if this is yeat another Dallas offensive line draft bust. Plenty of history to back them up.



Do us all a favor Nostrodamus and save your insight for somebody who cares - as in nobody.

Unless you and Doc Brown jumped into the Delorean and fouind out already?

Fail.

Fail? Did you even read your own post?
You just assigned bust status to Arkin while I merely told you what Jerry Jones already stated. That they wouldn't take DeCastro at 14.

Jerry made that statement so people like you could stop crying in time to buy tickets.

Scouts loved Arkin this time last year. But he was noted as a developmental guy. Dallas signed two OL to short-term deals. That doesn't have much effect long term. Again, if Arkin isn't a starter this year so be it. We'll have a lot of back ups. And you want those guys to be upside players. Arkin is.

I can't stop you from having vain hopes of landing your man crush. I just hope you can cope when the inevitable happens.

You, like most ardent DeCastro followers are basking in very early reports. DeCastro has slowly moved down draft boards on virtually every site. Why? Because of reality... OGs fall.

 

[Stash]

Fail? Did you even read your own post?
You just assigned bust status to Arkin while I merely told you what Jerry Jones already stated. That they wouldn't take DeCastro at 14.

There's some revisionist history.

I never said that Arkin was a bust.

I have repeatedly said that I am reserving judgement until after this season. What I did do was state why some people have little faith in him panning out. Unlike the 'faithful', the people doubting him actually have some evidence to support their position so I can see where they are coming from.

I haven't seen anyone calling him a bust and saying he should be cut or that the team should move on, least of all me.

Jerry made that statement so people like you could stop crying in time to buy tickets.

I love how some fools will use terms like 'crying' or 'whining' in a failed attempt to minimze opinions differing from their own. Once again, you fail. My opinion needs no validation from you.

And if Jerry Jones has come out and honestly told people that he's not taking DeCastro (or anyone else for that matter), he's a bigger fool than his critics claim.

Scouts loved Arkin this time last year. But he was noted as a developmental guy. Dallas signed two OL to short-term deals. That doesn't have much effect long term. Again, if Arkin isn't a starter this year so be it. We'll have a lot of back ups. And you want those guys to be upside players. Arkin is.

Great, I'm all for giving him two years to develop. But if he's not close to contributing after this season, it may be time to bring out the 'B' word. And those two guys they signed have two year deals minimum. Otherwise, it's another reason to condemn the braintrust for more bad moves and wasted money.

I can't stop you from having vain hopes of landing your man crush. I just hope you can cope when the inevitable happens.

You, like most ardent DeCastro followers are basking in very early reports. DeCastro has slowly moved down draft boards on virtually every site. Why? Because of reality... OGs fall.

'Down' is a relative and vague term. Down to where? 16? 18? All the way to 20?

I'd have no problem drafting a guy at #14 who someone else had listed at #20 if it meant getting a safe, quality pick at an area of obvious need rather than passing on him for somebody with 'potential'.

There are risers and fallers every year.

I seem to recall some quarterback that was slated to go #1 overall who fell the week before the draft, all the way down into the 20's.

Aaron something...

 

[SMCowboy]

And? Does it look great for his prospects that we ran out and signed not one but two guys who play his position during the first week of free agency? I'll answer it for ya, no it doesn't.

Signing Nate Livings, and Mackenzy Bernadeau says absolutely nothing about Arkin, Nagy, or anyone else still on the team. All that is says is that unlike last year where we went into the season hoping that veterans with an injury history would stay healthy and unproven young guys we are going to give ourselves several options at OG and Center this year. If Arkin, Nagy, or anyone on the roster steps up we certainly didn't pay either Livings or Bernadeau so much money that they are guaranteed starting jobs. Both are paid like low level starters/top end backups.

 

[jterrell]

There's some revisionist history.

I never said that Arkin was a bust.

I have repeatedly said that I am reserving judgement until after this season. What I did do was state why some people have little faith in him panning out. Unlike the 'faithful', the people doubting him actually have some evidence to support their position so I can see where they are coming from.

I haven't seen anyone calling him a bust and saying he should be cut or that the team should move on, least of all me.



I love how some fools will use terms like 'crying' or 'whining' in a failed attempt to minimze opinions differing from their own. Once again, you fail. My opinion needs no validation from you.

And if Jerry Jones has come out and honestly told people that he's not taking DeCastro (or anyone else for that matter), he's a bigger fool than his critics claim.



Great, I'm all for giving him two years to develop. But if he's not close to contributing after this season, it may be time to bring out the 'B' word. And those two guys they signed have two year deals minimum. Otherwise, it's another reason to condemn the braintrust for more bad moves and wasted money.



'Down' is a relative and vague term. Down to where? 16? 18? All the way to 20?

I'd have no problem drafting a guy at #14 who someone else had listed at #20 if it meant getting a safe, quality pick at an area of obvious need rather than passing on him for somebody with 'potential'.

There are risers and fallers every year.

I seem to recall some quarterback that was slated to go #1 overall who fell the week before the draft, all the way down into the 20's.

Aaron something...

ROFL. You should shorten your posts so you don't disagree with yourself.

I am complaining about people whining because they are already and they do every year on draft day. There were people who were supposedly not buying tickets because we drafted Murray. I kid you not.

This year the must have guy on this board is DeCastro. People are freaking out over reality now; OGs fall and usually not to teams with holes at other positions.

Rodgers was a QB.... That's rather the opposite end of the spectrum. No is suggesting it is ever too high to draft franchise QBs. But franchise OGs? They didn't exist. The best two of the last decade didn't even stay in one place: Hutch and Nicks. Mankins did get paid but he fought tooth and nail yearly for what seemed like ever to do so.
We paid huge money for Bigg but not sure we got any better because of it.

As to Arkin you seem to agree it isn't time to judge. So why bring him up at all?

I'd take an OG ideally 18-22. I have stated this for a couple months now BTW.

I'd be willing to drop to 17 and take DeCastro as well. I like getting that extra pick if I am taking a "safe" position.

Is Smith, DeCastro, Bern, Livings, Free a good OL? I do believe so.
Is Smith, Livings, Konz, Bern, Free a good OL? I do believe so.

The difference is what all else you can add with Konz or other interior Ol options over drafting DeCastro at 14.

I do not believe a very good OG at 14 is good value.

 

[Stash]

Signing Nate Livings, and Mackenzy Bernadeau says absolutely nothing about Arkin, Nagy, or anyone else still on the team.

I see $6.2 million reasons otherwise, to say nothing of the $3.25 million they paid Bernardeau.

You don't run out in week one of free agency and sign not one but two guards if you're happy about what you've got.

All that is says is that unlike last year where we went into the season hoping that veterans with an injury history would stay healthy and unproven young guys we are going to give ourselves several options at OG and Center this year.

As opposed to the two unproven guards that we did sign? Let's not kid ourselves into thinking we signed Pro Bowlers here.

If Arkin, Nagy, or anyone on the roster steps up we certainly didn't pay either Livings or Bernadeau so much money that they are guaranteed starting jobs. Both are paid like low level starters/top end backups.

No, Bernardeau is paid that way. Livings got $6 million plus guaranteed at close to $4 million per season. At that price, if he doesn't play a considerable amount of time, that's a lot of money wasted on a backup.

 

[AbeBeta]

I'm not saying he's not, I just question the wisdom of bringing a guy in you know is at least a year away when you need offensive line help yesterday.

Oh, so we should have taken some NFL ready guys in round 4 or later?

Good luck with that approach.

 

[SMCowboy]

And I can certainly see your point though it differs from my own.

My reasoning for being zoned-in on DeCastro is twofold:

1) Because the great consensue of opinion says that he is far and away the best player at his position - one the Cowboys need and have themselves struggled to find for the past decade plus.

and

2) Because he is widely considered a 'can't miss' (or as close to one as can be) prospect and a plug-and-play guy for the next decade. Claims I have not seen made about the other candidates.

Combining those two reasons, that makes my mind up that DeCastro makes the most sense for the Cowboys if he's still there at #14.

Again, just one fan's opinion on the matter.

But DeCastro is still a guard and will always be a guard. And plain flat and simple guards are not, and never will be impact players. The fact that in FA, Carl Nicks received almost $10 million less than Vincent Jackson says all that needs to be said about how much of an impact guards have on the game.

Take a look at the number of starting guards, and where they were selected in the draft. There were 8 starting guards in the NFL that were drafted in the first round of the NFL draft. And of those 8, two were selected as tackles, but ended up moving down to guard.

Take a look at the 2011 Pro Bowl Guards, and where they were drafted.
Jahri Evans - 4th Round 108 Overall
Chris Snee - 2nd Round 34th overall
Carl Nicks - 5th round 164th overall
Kris Dielman - Undrafted FA
Logan Matkins - 1st round 32nd overall
Brian Waters - Undrafted FA

What in that says the the smart move for Dallas is to spend the #20 pick in the draft on a guard?

 

[Stash]

ROFL. You should shorten your posts so you don't disagree with yourself.

You talk about 'short posts' and then give us this?

I am complaining about people whining because they are already and they do every year on draft day. There were people who were supposedly not buying tickets because we drafted Murray. I kid you not.

You're whining about someone else whining about something else.

This year the must have guy on this board is DeCastro. People are freaking out over reality now; OGs fall and usually not to teams with holes at other positions.

This year plebnty of folks are hoping that the team draftes DeCastro. He's many of our 'pet cat'. Feel free to get one of your own rather than crap all over someone else's.

Rodgers was a QB.... That's rather the opposite end of the spectrum.

Yet it perfectly illustrates the folly of risers and fallers so close to the draft.

No is suggesting it is ever too high to draft franchise QBs. But franchise OGs? They didn't exist. The best two of the last decade didn't even stay in one place: Hutch and Nicks.

Care to inform the class how exactly Hutchinson left Seattle?

Mankins did get paid but he fought tooth and nail yearly for what seemed like ever to do so.

Yet another example of an interior lineman drafted in round 1 paying off spectacularly for the team that drafted him.

We paid huge money for Bigg but not sure we got any better because of it.

And why did we do that again? Because we wucked at drafting them and needed to pay big money to fill the hole. Just like we did for Marco Rivera before that and just like we did with the recently-departed Kosier. We can draft 'em so we pay for someone else's - through the nose.

As to Arkin you seem to agree it isn't time to judge. So why bring him up at all?

See thread title.

I'd take an OG ideally 18-22. I have stated this for a couple months now BTW.

I'd be willing to drop to 17 and take DeCastro as well. I like getting that extra pick if I am taking a "safe" position.

And I think it's folly to risk losing out on a great player due to one draft spot or two.

Is Smith, DeCastro, Bern, Livings, Free a good OL? I do believe so.
Is Smith, Livings, Konz, Bern, Free a good OL? I do believe so.

The difference is what all else you can add with Konz or other interior Ol options over drafting DeCastro at 14.

I do not believe a very good OG at 14 is good value.

And therein lies our fundamental disagreement.

Agree to disagree.

 

[TheCount]

Oh, so we should have taken some NFL ready guys in round 4 or later?

Good luck with that approach.

Are you really that incapable of understanding the point of a statement or are you just looking for someone to argue with? If you're looking to argue then just say so, but let's not pretend you're so dense you can't understand what my point was.