Run blocking (4 games in)

[Zordon]

3rd and short vs 3rd and 7. THE difference btw the 2016 and 2017 Dallas Cowboys. It's not rocket science folks. The oline has been weak and therefore it's negatively affecting several other parts of this team.

 

[DiResta]

like i keep telling the people blaming Garrett and Jerry and Linehan and scheme
this is the reason we are not rolling yet on offense


defense is a whole other story

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Garrett’s job is not player retention or acquisition.

True but it is his job to his players' talent level. I have a hard time believing Green best position for this unit is G. What's crazy is, Chaz Green the RT, is a solid player. His biggest issue was he couldn't stay on the field. Green the G is going through a learning curve. Remember Cooper saying right before the season started he was still trying to get all his keys down w/o making any mistakes. Think about that for a second.......Cooper has played the G position entire career. Imagine how much Green head is spinning playing the position for the first time ( in NFL ). I know the unit may need more time but ............

 

[lostar2009]

Here's the thing.......Leary was good, damn good. Did we really think we replace his performance with a player whose never play G at NFL level and retain the same standards? Green/Cooper is huge drop-off and it's showing. That's on Garrett.....

This here !!! But I doubt this is on JG this call had to come from the front office. They let Leary go and paid Collins for ???? I'm trying to see when he earn 7 mil a year. But if anything I would have start Collins at LG and let him play some RT. Green would have been my starting RT. The guy play great in space but is injury prone. He could have taken reps and RG. It seem as if they screw up the offensive line on purpose.

 

[lostar2009]

True but it is his job to his players' talent level. I have a hard time believing Green best position for this unit is G. What's crazy is, Chaz Green the RT, is a solid player. His biggest issue was he couldn't stay on the field. Green the G is going through a learning curve. Remember Cooper saying right before the season started he was still trying to get all his keys down w/o making any mistakes. Think about that for a second.......Cooper has played the G position entire career. Imagine how much Green head is spinning playing the position for the first time ( in NFL ). I know the unit may need more time but ............

Its costing them a season and their qb is getting killed out there.

 

[Zordon]

True but it is his job to his players' talent level. I have a hard time believing Green best position for this unit is G. What's crazy is, Chaz Green the RT, is a solid player. His biggest issue was he couldn't stay on the field. Green the G is going through a learning curve. Remember Cooper saying right before the season started he was still trying to get all his keys down w/o making any mistakes. Think about that for a second.......Cooper has played the G position entire career. Imagine how much Green head is spinning playing the position for the first time ( in NFL ). I know the unit may need more time but ............

They promised Collins an opportunity at tackle to get him here. It's why he's playing there unfortunately. Tricky situation to handle.

 

[Zman5]

Montgomery doesn't get that many carries and the Packers are usually spread out offensively, so when Montgomery does run the ball, it's more likely to be in obvious run situations with an extra defender.

What's more revealing are that guys who do get a lot of carries (Fournette, Ajayi, Miller, Freeman, and McCoy) have been running into more +1 boxes than Zeke has.

Except for Freeman, it's probably due to the mediocre QBs the rest of the RBs on that list plays with. The defenses probably don't respect the passing game of those teams. I'm bit surprised about Freeman with the Falcons' potent passing game.

 

[percyhoward]

Despite the struggles of the run game, the offense still ranks in the top 10 in points per drive.

1. Rams
2. Patriots
3. Chiefs
4. Falcons
5. Saints
6. Packers
7. Cowboys
8. Eagles
9. Jags
10. Bucs

Defense is 23rd.

 

[percyhoward]

I'm bit surprised about Freeman with the Falcons' potent passing game.

They're 3-1, but their intermedite-to-deep passing game has really struggled.

15+ yard targets
Ryan 8 of 22 269 yds 1 td 2 int 60.6

Imagine how many +1 boxes Zeke would be facing if Dak had numbers like those.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Here's the thing.......Leary was good, damn good. Did we really think we replace his performance with a player whose never play G at NFL level and retain the same standards? Green/Cooper is huge drop-off and it's showing. That's on Garrett.....

Look at Football Outsiders' O-Line running stats. We are #1 in the league on runs outside of left tackle, 22nd at LT and 8 at 'mid/guard.' But we are 28th at runs at RT and outside RT.

Not sure that replacing Leary with Green is the problem. Could be given the zone scheme, but the numbers don't point to that.




YR

 

[SlammedZero]

It could just be that this line is still finding their rhythm. Hopefully as they work together more and more than can find themselves some unity. Problem is, haven't we seen Cooper in the line as well? Probably hard to find cohesion when you're swapping out players so much.

 

[percyhoward]

@Zman5

Look at all the RB with 17+ carries/game (Fournette, Ajayi, Miller, Freeman, and McCoy) who face +1 boxes more often than Zeke.

Now look at their QB's intermediate-to-deep passing (15+ yard targets), compared to Zeke's QB.

Bortles 5 of 18 121 yds 1 td 1 int 50.5
Cutler 7 of 21 172 yds 1 td 0 int 79.9
Watson 7 of 23 182 2 td 3 int 49.8
Ryan 8 of 22 269 yds 1 td 2 int 60.6
Taylor 8 of 19 233 yds 0 td 0 int 88.3

Prescott 10 of 20 387 yds 3 td 0 int 135.4

 

[LocimusPrime]

Elliott on 1st down
2016 5.5 ypc
2017 2.8 ypc

Elliott on 1st and 2nd down
2016 5.3 ypc
2017 3.4 ypc

The above stats are mine, from Pro Football Reference. The next two are from Adam Spinks@TheRBScout. In this first one, he determines the point (relative to the LOS) at which a defender is in tackling position. The players on the left have had the most running room. On the right are the players who have gained the most yards after this point.

In this next one, Spinks counts box defenders, but rather than simply listing those times when there was a certain number (8 in the box, for example), he takes offensive personnel into account and only lists those times when there was an extra defender in the box relative to the number of blockers. According to Spinks, on 62% of Elliott's runs in the first four games, Dallas had at least as many blockers as there were box defenders.

Wow that Kareem hunt looks good on both sides of the chart. demarco Murray looks good too!

 

[LocimusPrime]

Elliott on 1st down
2016 5.5 ypc
2017 2.8 ypc

Elliott on 1st and 2nd down
2016 5.3 ypc
2017 3.4 ypc

The above stats are mine, from Pro Football Reference. The next two are from Adam Spinks@TheRBScout. In this first one, he determines the point (relative to the LOS) at which a defender is in tackling position. The players on the left have had the most running room. On the right are the players who have gained the most yards after this point.

In this next one, Spinks counts box defenders, but rather than simply listing those times when there was a certain number (8 in the box, for example), he takes offensive personnel into account and only lists those times when there was an extra defender in the box relative to the number of blockers. According to Spinks, on 62% of Elliott's runs in the first four games, Dallas had at least as many blockers as there were box defenders.

Wow...so all this stacked against the run is nonsense. We have adequate personnel to block the defenders

 

[Idgit]

Wow...so all this stacked against the run is nonsense. We gave adewpquate personnel to block the defenders

We're just not as coordinated as we need to be yet. Which at least means there's an opportunity to improve.

And we're probably missing Free more than Leary in the running game so far.

 

[xwalker]

Elliott on 1st down
2016 5.5 ypc
2017 2.8 ypc

Elliott on 1st and 2nd down
2016 5.3 ypc
2017 3.4 ypc

The above stats are mine, from Pro Football Reference. The next two are from Adam Spinks@TheRBScout. In this first one, he determines the point (relative to the LOS) at which a defender is in tackling position. The players on the left have had the most running room. On the right are the players who have gained the most yards after this point.

In this next one, Spinks counts box defenders, but rather than simply listing those times when there was a certain number (8 in the box, for example), he takes offensive personnel into account and only lists those times when there was an extra defender in the box relative to the number of blockers. According to Spinks, on 62% of Elliott's runs in the first four games, Dallas had at least as many blockers as there were box defenders.

I suggested the Cowboys should consider drafting Dalvin Cook. People said I was insane. In retrospect he would be a great compliment to Zeke. Cook is deadly on the outside.

On the True Box stats he is saying that Ty Montgomery is seeing the most loaded boxes?

So on an offense with the best or 2nd best QB in the league and RB that basically half WR (#88) the defenses are loading up against the run and taking their chances against the pass?

Unless I'm mis-understanding those stats, it might be a time to consider the stats don't really mean what they seem to mean.

My guess is that when Montgomery does run that defenses know he's going to run.

Based on his stats I don't think defenses would be overly worried about stopping him.

It would be better to know how many total times per game there were extra defenders in the box to know how much that team's running game helps their passing game.

The Cowboys tend to audible out of run plays when the see a stacked box.

Montgomery's number of carries each game:
19
10
12
5

His average per carry each game.
2.8
3.5
2.9
5.6

 

[MichaelWinicki]

like i keep telling the people blaming Garrett and Jerry and Linehan and scheme
this is the reason we are not rolling yet on offense


defense is a whole other story

Ageed.

It's not the scheme of the offense.

The players simply aren't performing on offense... Zak here & there. Zeke maybe more so.

But the OL & TE blocking has been subpar. And that ain't the scheme.

I don't blame the defensive scheme either.

The linebackers simply have not covered well for one reason or another and Heath has underperformed.

 

[percyhoward]

My guess is that when Montgomery does run that defenses know he's going to run.

Mine too. Filter out players like Montgomery who don't have a lot of carries.

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/run-blocking-4-games-in.387196/page-2#post-7574853

 

[Jarv]

Adam Spinks with those stats huh...Hmmm a guy named Adam who is a master with stats. Could it be?

 

[percyhoward]

Adam Spinks with those stats huh...Hmmm a guy named Adam who is a master with stats. Could it be?

Nothing short of a religious conversion would make the other Adam focus on the running game.