Run It Back

[cowboys5xsbs]

35th time is the charm

 

[foofighters]

I thought I would need to wait until after the NFCCG for this thread. I thought the team was good enough to beat two fairly weak NFC opponents at home, and then go to SF and lose (hopefully playing valiantly). Then I would discuss getting rid of Dak afterwards and endured getting name called non stop. This performance makes the notion even more prevalent.

No matter the defense played terrible. No matter that the receivers were not consistently running wide open every single play. No matter the running game was not averaging 6-8 yards per carry. No matter going 12-5 and beating the snot out of the Giants (twice), Washington (twice), Panthers, Patriots, and Jets. The squad has proven it is a middle to upper middle tier 2 team, of which there are many. There are only two tier 1 teams this season. They can consistently beat tier 3 teams, compete and occasionally win versus tier 2 teams, and typically get dominated by tier 1 teams. They got blown out by tier 2 teams twice in the last 30 days (once at home), and were disastrous offensively on both games. They plateau at upper middle tier 2, and look like extreme long shots to ever land in tier 1 with Dak as QB.

Trying to build a tier 1 team with Dak as QB seems like pure fantasy (no matter if we give it another 7 seasons). The team will always grade as a tier 2 squad (ranked 5-16 in the league) with Dak, which also means they will never be a tier 3. I hear a bunch of crap about how difficult it is to find an adequate QB. I completely renounce this stance. It is difficult to impossible to build or rebuild a team in 2-3 seasons. There is immense pressure to take dramatic risks, and lots of teams fail spectacularly because of it. Scores of young rookie QB’s are ruined in the process.

Most franchises do not have the luxury of really long build times. Continuity is not the modus operandi for most squads. I can think of a few other teams that have been able to do it other than Dallas (Green Bay, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, New England, Seattle, Kansas City now and San Francisco). The difference between the Cowboys and these clubs is deep playoff runs, Super Bowl appearances or wins in the last 20 seasons. The other clubs trust the staff to do the job because they have done it in the past, but even these teams will scrap the key architects if the arrow is pointing sideways or down (Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick, and I’m hearing possibly Mike Tomlin depending).

Any extension of Dak is guaranteeing this ceiling. They will extend him in my opinion because Jerry does not want to risk a truly awful season or “oh no” awful 2-3 seasons. If you need another 6-7 seasons to see Dak’s ceiling you already drowned in the koolaid. Good luck Cowboys.

Read your second sentence again.

1. No team that makes it into the playoffs should ever be taken lightly or referred to as, "Weak."
2. By your thoughts, we must be weak as well considering that we really didn't beat anyone all year long. Which was on full display last night.

 

[Blitzen]

It goes hand in hand. You think Dak is the problem but the immovable object is ehh he’s our quarterback to begin with lol.

Are you saying that Dak is by extension an immovable object because the owner will just stick with him? Yeah, that may be-but I was discussing it all the same.

This is likely another offseason where he either fires the coaching staff or like the attorney counsels Arnold Rothstein in “Boardwalk Empire”-“you don’t try to scrape fresh horse **** off your boots and pants, you sit in it and let it settle and dry for awhile, then you shake it off all gentle like.”

 

[Blitzen]

Read your second sentence again.

1. No team that makes it into the playoffs should ever be taken lightly or referred to as, "Weak."
2. By your thoughts, we must be weak as well considering that we really didn't beat anyone all year long. Which was on full display last night.

I know, but I actually think that if Dallas gets ahead by one or two scores they might beat Green Bay even now. The defense and offense are built to play from a lead (especially big leads which is why the team blew so many opponents out). The NFC and AFC only have one tier one team apiece. And I’m not even sure they are true tier 1 teams-we have to wait and see.

Imagine a young prime Steve Young quarterbacking for the 49ers with everyone else the same.

 

[foofighters]

I know, but I actually think that if Dallas gets ahead by one or two scores they might beat Green Bay even now. The defense and offense are built to play from a lead (especially big leads which is why the team blew so many opponents out). The NFC and AFC only have one tier one team apiece. And I’m not even sure they are true tier 1 teams-we have to wait and see.

Imagine a young prime Steve Young quarterbacking for the 49ers with everyone else the same.

and here's where coaching wins games. Green Bay knew that and game planned for a fast start and of course, we did not. Not only do we have suspect areas of weakness on the team but so our coaching. Green Bay was the better team yesterday in all facets. We have zero excuses as we got our tails whipped.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Are you saying that Dak is by extension an immovable object because the owner will just stick with him? Yeah, that may be-but I was discussing it all the same.

This is likely another offseason where he either fires the coaching staff or like the attorney counsels Arnold Rothstein in “Boardwalk Empire”-“you don’t try to scrape fresh horse **** off your boots and pants, you sit in it and let it settle and dry for awhile, then you shake it off all gentle like.”

Sorry autocorrect whooped my *** there i was saying the Jones family are in charge of personnel and culture. Dak became Dak because of this immovable object. Just like how Micah did. Micah had 1 pressure yesterday. I don’t believe he forgot how to play football.

 

[Blitzen]

and here's where coaching wins games. Green Bay knew that and game planned for a fast start and of course, we did not. Not only do we have suspect areas of weakness on the team but so our coaching. Green Bay was the better team yesterday in all facets. We have zero excuses as we got our tails whipped.

I think coaching helps, but the players win the game (lol-the coin flip spelled disaster). Jordan needs Lafleur and Lafleur needs Jordan. Dak would not succeed with Lafleur like Jordan did. Their playing styles and talents are very different. It also does not help that Dak looked on the verge of vomiting anxiety yesterday. Anyone who has been championing Dak had to find that game excruciating to watch.

 

[JustChip]

Dak isn't the problem. He's just a player giving it all and trying to get the best (money) out of it. Like all the other players.

Nah, the problem sits in the FO. They just won't cut lose of him for whatever reasons. Heck I could live with an honest 3-14 season now if it was the start of a rebuilding process. Dak wasted another 3 to 4 years and the FO does nothing? I don't even need a plan B right now, just get as many picks as you can for Martin, Micah, whoever (I'd keep Lamb, Aubrey and Ferguson though, and all the depth guys) and rebuild. And let's try a young(er) HC for a change. I really don't like Belichick. The great 90s started with a 1 win season.

But as I said, that's not on Dak. He can't play better, but the decisions have to be made elsewhere. I really really can't cope with any more of this "we like our guys" BS.

The problem is there is no assurance a 1-15 season begets 7-9 the next season, which begets 11-5 the next season, which begets 13-3 and a SB win next season. I’m not suggesting not to make serious changes, but just be realistic in what to expect. Especially absent a complete change at the top.

 

[Rajveer]

I understand that, but Dak is a limiting factor to getting the playoff success we all want. Since Jerry and family are not going anywhere, I am not commenting on the immovable object.

If the immovable objects remain then nothing changes, so why are we even discussing QB change when it won't matter who is at the helm. You can put Tom Brady in this team in his prime and we still wont make it to the NFC championship game.

 

[SpaceCowboy99]

I thought I would need to wait until after the NFCCG for this thread. I thought the team was good enough to beat two fairly weak NFC opponents at home, and then go to SF and lose (hopefully playing valiantly). Then I would discuss getting rid of Dak afterwards and endured getting name called non stop. This performance makes the notion even more prevalent.

No matter the defense played terrible. No matter that the receivers were not consistently running wide open every single play. No matter the running game was not averaging 6-8 yards per carry. No matter going 12-5 and beating the snot out of the Giants (twice), Washington (twice), Panthers, Patriots, and Jets. The squad has proven it is a middle to upper middle tier 2 team, of which there are many. There are only two tier 1 teams this season. They can consistently beat tier 3 teams, compete and occasionally win versus tier 2 teams, and typically get dominated by tier 1 teams. They got blown out by tier 2 teams twice in the last 30 days (once at home), and were disastrous offensively on both games. They plateau at upper middle tier 2, and look like extreme long shots to ever land in tier 1 with Dak as QB.

Trying to build a tier 1 team with Dak as QB seems like pure fantasy (no matter if we give it another 7 seasons). The team will always grade as a tier 2 squad (ranked 5-16 in the league) with Dak, which also means they will never be a tier 3. I hear a bunch of crap about how difficult it is to find an adequate QB. I completely renounce this stance. It is difficult to impossible to build or rebuild a team in 2-3 seasons. There is immense pressure to take dramatic risks, and lots of teams fail spectacularly because of it. Scores of young rookie QB’s are ruined in the process.

Most franchises do not have the luxury of really long build times. Continuity is not the modus operandi for most squads. I can think of a few other teams that have been able to do it other than Dallas (Green Bay, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, New England, Seattle, Kansas City now and San Francisco). The difference between the Cowboys and these clubs is deep playoff runs, Super Bowl appearances or wins in the last 20 seasons. The other clubs trust the staff to do the job because they have done it in the past, but even these teams will scrap the key architects if the arrow is pointing sideways or down (Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick, and I’m hearing possibly Mike Tomlin depending).

Any extension of Dak is guaranteeing this ceiling. They will extend him in my opinion because Jerry does not want to risk a truly awful season or “oh no” awful 2-3 seasons. If you need another 6-7 seasons to see Dak’s ceiling you already drowned in the koolaid. Good luck Cowboys.

You guys act like taking a dramatic action should be the last thing we do... What else do fans like you need to see? Jerry has never blown it up before. 30 years no SB.

Ok let's just keep playing it safe because you and Jerry don't want to have a few rebuilding seasons. He might lose some value with Forbes.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

Intelligent post. You’re right.
Dak feasts on tomato can teams and is one of the worst in the league against good teams. He does just enough to prevent us from ever picking a QB with a draft pick yet does nothing except beat teams Cooper Rush could beat. We are stuck because Jerry is 81 and doesn’t have the time . Personally wins next year won’t even matter , it’s sad but Cowboys have become unwatchable at this point. Every year they build a record of 12-5 against bad teams, raise expectations to just flame out.

Great post. Only thing I differ on is I think the days of rolling to 12 and 5 are over. NFC has been really down for a few years and the cowboys benefitted, but I think the conference is starting to get better.

 

[Blitzen]

Sorry autocorrect whooped my *** there i was saying the Jones family are in charge of personnel and culture. Dak became Dak because of this immovable object. Just like how Micah did. Micah had 1 pressure yesterday. I don’t believe he forgot how to play football.

I agree that accountability is not a trait that Jones truly values-from himself-just everyone else. Not exactly the message you want to send to your best employees. Micah was not great, but had very few chances. The Cowboys were very close to sacking Jordan-he was exceptional at taking a hit and still delivering with good to great placement. The secondary and linebackers (safeties in coverage and defending the run) were running confused-it was a strange day for the defensive unit. Quinn had a very bad day.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I agree that accountability is not a trait that Jones truly values-from himself-just everyone else. Not exactly the message you want to send to your best employees. Micah was not great, but had very few chances. The Cowboys were very close to sacking Jordan-he was exceptional at taking a hit and still delivering with good to great placement. The secondary and linebackers (safeties in coverage and defending the run) were running confused-it was a strange day for the defensive unit. Quinn had a very bad day.

It wasn’t too hard for him guys were open. I can see once or twice but numerous times Musgrave and Dobbs were wide open. This was Mike Nolan era bad.

 

[Blitzen]

If the immovable objects remain then nothing changes, so why are we even discussing QB change when it won't matter who is at the helm. You can put Tom Brady in this team in his prime and we still wont make it to the NFC championship game.

My general point is-since the end of the rope is done with Dak, why roll the dice with him again? Just try someone else and see if you hit pay dirt. Even idiots can get lucky (they at least have a better understanding that the lines of scrimmage have high value).

 

[Ken]

Intelligent post. You’re right.
Dak feasts on tomato can teams and is one of the worst in the league against good teams. He does just enough to prevent us from ever picking a QB with a draft pick yet does nothing except beat teams Cooper Rush could beat. We are stuck because Jerry is 81 and doesn’t have the time . Personally wins next year won’t even matter , it’s sad but Cowboys have become unwatchable at this point. Every year they build a record of 12-5 against bad teams, raise expectations to just flame out.

Guys...the 10-1 Eagles were a tomato can team. Same with the two teams that played last night.

Nevermind that the defense failed to win the game at Miami, another tomato can.

Yes...Buffalo and SF games happened...also the defense folding like a lawn chair.

Show me a qb that hasn't had clunkers.

 

[FVSTONE]

Intelligent post. You’re right.
Dak feasts on tomato can teams and is one of the worst in the league against good teams. He does just enough to prevent us from ever picking a QB with a draft pick yet does nothing except beat teams Cooper Rush could beat. We are stuck because Jerry is 81 and doesn’t have the time . Personally wins next year won’t even matter , it’s sad but Cowboys have become unwatchable at this point. Every year they build a record of 12-5 against bad teams, raise expectations to just flame out.

JJ is going to die with 3 SB trophies that JIMMY JOHNSON earned for this organization. Unfortunately for the Cowboy Nation we're stuck with Dakota " TOAD HUNTER" Prescot, who builds his stats up by beating the toads in the NFL. When it comes to beating the REAL TEAMS in the league Prescot is nowhere to be found...................

 

[Rajveer]

My general point is-since the end of the rope is done with Dak, why roll the dice with him again? Just try someone else and see if you hit pay dirt. Even idiots can get lucky (they at least have a better understanding that the lines of scrimmage have high value).

That is the problem with this organization to begin with. Experiment with something that at the end of the day will have no impact on the outcome. This is why we had Garrett for 10 years. Brought in big Mac, result still the same. In the past 28 years, players have come and gone, coaches have come and gone and we have not even sniffed the NFC championship game. To me experimenting with anything at this point is just waste of time. All it gives is hope to the fans and then they get crushed in the playoffs. Save yourself from misery and call it for what it is.

 

[HonoluluCowboy]

Dak isn't the problem. He's just a player giving it all and trying to get the best (money) out of it. Like all the other players.

Nah, the problem sits in the FO. They just won't cut lose of him for whatever reasons. Heck I could live with an honest 3-14 season now if it was the start of a rebuilding process. Dak wasted another 3 to 4 years and the FO does nothing? I don't even need a plan B right now, just get as many picks as you can for Martin, Micah, whoever (I'd keep Lamb, Aubrey and Ferguson though, and all the depth guys) and rebuild. And let's try a young(er) HC for a change. I really don't like Belichick. The great 90s started with a 1 win season.

But as I said, that's not on Dak. He can't play better, but the decisions have to be made elsewhere. I really really can't cope with any more of this "we like our guys" BS.

DELUSION

Yup its everyone but DAK !!

 

[Streifenkarl]

DELUSION

Yup its everyone but DAK !!

LoL, that's not what I said, not even close.

 

[BleedSilverandBlue]

Our only chance with Dak is to field the #1 defense and run game. We had zero LB depth after LVE and our run game was average at best.

Blame the GM

Dak played a bad game yesterday, but the defense also gave up a TD on like 6 of the first 7 GB drives.

If they even played like a league average team, Dallas could have maybe had a punchers chance in the 4th.

What’s crazy about this team is that it’s not like 1 player has a bad game every now and then. The entire roster on both sides of the ball absolutely collapses at the same time.