Ryan Braun suspended for the rest of 2013 by MLB

[Tabascocat]

Yeah, just edited my last to point out the probably 6 Million he would likely make if he could play this season by catching Mays. That's a pretty reasonable assessment of how you get to 96.

Appreciate it.

Not a problem. Like I stated earlier in this thread or another, I follow baseball very closely. I will admit I don't have a complete understanding of contracts, but I know what is needed on my end.

This whole Yankees/Alex fiasco will be a long, drawn out process. Neither side will buckle and I don't blame either one of them. I suspect in the end, Alex will get paid for half of 2014 and the remaining years. Will he comeback like his old, steroid self? Highly doubtful, but he will not walk away nor get a lifetime ban IMO.

I hate the Yankess like I do the other NFC East teams and I am loving this

 

[Rogah]

These conversations are pretty easy if you just declare victory I guess. LOL.... OK. Might want to change the W to an E so that everybody understands what you are declaring thou.

I think the members of this forum can clearly understand what someone means despite making the occasional typographical error.

The actual amount depends on what MLB does and you don't know what that will be yet. The incentives may or may not be reached and I am inclined to believe they will not be reached but we will see what happe

See, the reason why I don't point out when other people make spelling mistakes is because I make plenty of my own. So, even though you mentioned my spelling mistake when I accidentally typed w instead of e, I am not going to point out how you dropped an n from "happen" or left the gh off of "though" in the above paragraph.

I have seen the number reported to be 114 million. Where do you get the 96 and the 36% from?

The $96 million is roughly what is currently remaining on his contract, given that we are roughly 2/3rds of the way through this current season.

You are a Dr. and you can make that statement definitively?

I am just going by what has been reported. His current injury is not the result of PED usage. Furthermore, if you think there is a snowball's chance in hell the Yankees successfully void his contract, then I've got a great deal on the Brooklyn Bridge I can sell you.

Again, show the numbers you are looking at so we can all see how you arrive at this statement.

According to ESPN (link below), his contract schedule is:

201328
201425
201521
201620
2017
20

I did some rounding and assumed we were roughly 2/3rd of the way through the 2013 season to get my numbers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153171

I don't know, are you up to it? I'm thinking no since your original statement of playing rehab games for the past month is completely inaccurate. Exactly how many games in the past month has A-Rod played in?

I don't know the exact number but it's roughly a dozen, and he is scheduled to return to a rehab assignment on Thursday for a call up to the big leagues 1 week from today. Note please that I don't think he will actually get that call up because I believe he will be suspended by then, but it's pretty tough to claim the guy has a career ending injury when he's scheduled to return to the majors within a week.

He was put back on the Disabled list on the 22nd. I know he missed a game because he ditched it for a conversation with the Commish. I know he missed a game due to injury, he went out with an injury and he had one rain out. How many games has he actually played this month? You don't know if he's physically OK or not.

I never said he was physically ok, now did I? I just said that he has not sustained a career ending injury. As evidence to support that assertion I point out the fact that he's, you know, still actually playing baseball.

 

[Rogah]

Not a problem. Like I stated earlier in this thread or another, I follow baseball very closely. I will admit I don't have a complete understanding of contracts, but I know what is needed on my end.

This whole Yankees/Alex fiasco will be a long, drawn out process. Neither side will buckle and I don't blame either one of them. I suspect in the end, Alex will get paid for half of 2014 and the remaining years. Will he comeback like his old, steroid self? Highly doubtful, but he will not walk away nor get a lifetime ban IMO.

We are definitely on the same page. When all is said and done, I'm thinking he will lose 50 games this year plus 50 to start next year, so he'll get a little over 2/3rds of 2014, plus all of 2015 - 2017. Baseball may try to give him a tougher punishment, and the suspension may be longer than that when initially announced, but the MLBPA is not going to turn a blind eye to the Commissioner just arbitrarily handing down huge suspensions unilaterally. When he comes back from suspension, the Yankees may cut him, but they're still going to have to pay him.

The simple fact of the matter is that, believe it or not, A-Rod hasn't tested positive for any banned substances under this current CBA (he did test positive 10 years ago under the old CBA when MLB was trying to figure out how many players actually were using, but there was nothing in place to punish those players and that cannot be considered a 1st offense). The only thing he can be punished for beyond his 1st offense is for lying to the Commissioner and trying to cover up his involvement with Biogenesis. But what can the Commissioner really do to a guy that lied? He can give A-Rod a suspension, sure, but nothing too heavy handed. The MLBPA will slam the Commissioner if he comes down hard on a player caught lying because they don't want to allow the precedent that lying can lead to some sort of huge suspension.

Make no mistake about it: The Commish wanted to slam Ryan Braun for lying about and covering up his positive test from 2 years ago, but only gave him a mere 15 games tacked on to his 50 for the drug usage. Selig knows he would never be allowed to do anything much stricter than that.

I hate the Yankess like I do the other NFC East teams and I am loving this

That's how I feel. I love the fact that the Yankees have essentially flushed about over a hundred million down the toilet on A-Rod, and I hope they don't recover a single penny of that. And I love the irony that they are essentially praying for their own player to get as long of a suspension as possible.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Not a problem. Like I stated earlier in this thread or another, I follow baseball very closely. I will admit I don't have a complete understanding of contracts, but I know what is needed on my end.

This whole Yankees/Alex fiasco will be a long, drawn out process. Neither side will buckle and I don't blame either one of them. I suspect in the end, Alex will get paid for half of 2014 and the remaining years. Will he comeback like his old, steroid self? Highly doubtful, but he will not walk away nor get a lifetime ban IMO.

I hate the Yankess like I do the other NFC East teams and I am loving this

If this were a year or two ago, I might be more inclined to agree on Rodriguez. I just think that all sides are now coming to the realization that Baseball is serious about dealing with PEDs. We may see some things that have historically been almost impossible become possible. That's just an assumptionon my part.

 

[Tabascocat]

Arod needs to act like a man here and accept his penalty. I would think they could settle on the rest of 2013 and maybe 50 games into 2014.

Multiple reports say what is being offered to him is a suspension for the rest of this season and ALL of next season. Arod could appeal that and begin playing games immediately. Selig doesn't want that. He could invoke a clause that is "in the best interest of baseball" and force Arod not to play IF he didn't accept the suspension right away which would now be a lifetime ban instead of just the suspension . Arod could appeal that as well but he would be appealing it to the source of his punishment in the first place...the commissioner's office. So basically....Arod is screwed in that sense.

I have a feeling that he will appeal which will ultimately lead to the end of his career. I am not sure about this next part, but can the Yankees offer Arod a buyout when he comes back from suspension? For example, offer 40 mill of the remaining 60 mill and be rid of this guy?

 

[Rogah]

Arod needs to act like a man here and accept his penalty

Well, there are literally tens of millions of dollars at stake here which will depend on the length of the suspension, so I kinda can't blame him for fighting it.

I am not sure about this next part, but can the Yankees offer Arod a buyout when he comes back from suspension? For example, offer 40 mill of the remaining 60 mill and be rid of this guy?

No, they cannot do that. 10 years ago, A-Rod (ironically the same player) tried to allow a reduction in his salary to facilitate a trade to the Red Sox. The MLBPA wouldn't permit him to do that, so he backed down.

To restate: Even though A-Rod was willing to take less money, he wasn't allowed to. So when A-Rod comes back from his suspension, the Yankees won't be able to reduce his contract, to say nothing of the fact that he won't let them.

I wouldn't be surprised if they cut him, but they'll have to write a pretty big check if they do.

 

[Rogah]

I have a feeling that he will appeal which will ultimately lead to the end of his career. I am not sure about this next part, but can the Yankees offer Arod a buyout when he comes back from suspension? For example, offer 40 mill of the remaining 60 mill and be rid of this guy?

I want to follow up to this question and cannot edit my previous post:

What they could theoretically do is trade him, with the agreement that they would pay (for example) 67% of the remaining value of the contract. So they'd need to find a team who would be happy to take A-Rod for, say, 4 years at $20 million. The Commissioner would have to approve such a deal. However, whether or not there exists a team willing to take him even at $5 mil per year is highly questionable.

 

[Tabascocat]

I want to follow up to this question and cannot edit my previous post:

What they could theoretically do is trade him, with the agreement that they would pay (for example) 67% of the remaining value of the contract. So they'd need to find a team who would be happy to take A-Rod for, say, 4 years at $20 million. The Commissioner would have to approve such a deal. However, whether or not there exists a team willing to take him even at $5 mil per year is highly questionable.

True. Thought of that already. No one would take I dont think. Thankfully, Alex does not play football

 

[Tabascocat]

Well, there are literally tens of millions of dollars at stake here which will depend on the length of the suspension, so I kinda can't blame him for fighting it.

Which is why I believe he will eventually agree to a suspension very soon. If he does appeal, he risks losing out on another 60+ million. I'm sure he has a room full of attorneys going over every option with a decision coming within a few days. His head is so big, I don't think he wants to risk getting a lifetime ban, which is improbable in itself anyways.

Whatever happens, these next few days will be entertaining.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think the members of this forum can clearly understand what someone means despite making the occasional typographical error.
See, the reason why I don't point out when other people make spelling mistakes is because I make plenty of my own. So, even though you mentioned my spelling mistake when I accidentally typed w instead of e, I am not going to point out how you dropped an n from "happen" or left the gh off of "though" in the above paragraph.

Really? You don't do that? You don't point out spelling errors like that?

Well I'm certainly smart enough to know the difference between "your" and "you're",

You never do that? Must just be another one of those things I don't know the difference between I suppose.

The $96 million is roughly what is currently remaining on his contract, given that we are roughly 2/3rds of the way through this current season.
I am just going by what has been reported. His current injury is not the result of PED usage. Furthermore, if you think there is a snowball's chance in hell the Yankees successfully void his contract, then I've got a great deal on the Brooklyn Bridge I can sell you.
According to ESPN (link below), his contract schedule is:

201328
201425
201521
201620
2017
20

I did some rounding and assumed we were roughly 2/3rd of the way through the 2013 season to get my numbers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153171

I don't know the exact number but it's roughly a dozen, and he is scheduled to return to a rehab assignment on Thursday for a call up to the big leagues 1 week from today. Note please that I don't think he will actually get that call up because I believe he will be suspended by then, but it's pretty tough to claim the guy has a career ending injury when he's scheduled to return to the majors within a week.
I never said he was physically ok, now did I? I just said that he has not sustained a career ending injury. As evidence to support that assertion I point out the fact that he's, you know, still actually playing baseball.

At this point, I believe that the jury is still out on what the League and or the Yankees might come to a conclusion on with regards to A-Rods injury situation. Just today, it was reported that the Yankees will impose an undisclosed fine upon A-Rod for attempting to get a second medical opinion on the state of his injury situation. Only approved Yankee medical staff can make such a determination and I'm certain that the Yankees are doing this for a reason.

For the record, I never once said that the Yankees would be successful with an insurance angle. What I said was that they might try and use that angle. I believe that Baseball, the Owners, the Players that are clean and possibly even the Union might want to fix this PEDs problem. I read what you said earlier on A-Rod wanting to accept less money on a contract and the MLBPA preventing him from doing so. The difference then and now, IMO, might be that then it was in the best interests of the players to prevent such a move. Now, because we may have a significant number of big time, big contract players missing a significant amount of time, it will effect contracts and salaries for the players that are clean and that could possibly be a reason the MLBPA might be in favor of looking for an alternative. I'm not saying that's the case but it's true that if something is not done about the contract situations with players who use, then Baseball and by default, the Players will ultimately suffer. The Owners will not continue to pay out the kinds of Contracts they have been paying out if they know that MLB will be serious about testing and the penalties will be stiff. The only real solution might be to agree to a void contract clause in the case of PEDs usage by players.

 

[Tabascocat]

At this point, I believe that the jury is still out on what the League and or the Yankees might come to a conclusion on with regards to A-Rods injury situation. Just today, it was reported that the Yankees will impose an undisclosed fine upon A-Rod for attempting to get a second medical opinion on the state of his injury situation. Only approved Yankee medical staff can make such a determination and I'm certain that the Yankees are doing this for a reason. .

This actually happened almost a week ago. The Yankees staff says he is hurt, Arod says he isn't and went for an unapproved 2nd opinion. That doc said he was fine. What we are seeing is a cat and mouse game between the two. Upper management doesn't want to see him take the field again. If Arod chipped a nail, he would have been designated for rehab because it is possible he broke his phalanges, or something to that extent.

The two sides are clearly not seeing eye-to-eye. Arod wants his money and to play, the organization wants to find some way to get rid of him and that contract. Whatever injuries you read or hear about with him, take that with a grain of salt. This is now a legal game.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This actually happened almost a week ago. The Yankees staff says he is hurt, Arod says he isn't and went for an unapproved 2nd opinion. That doc said he was fine. What we are seeing is a cat and mouse game between the two. Upper management doesn't want to see him take the field again. If Arod chipped a nail, he would have been designated for rehab because it is possible he broke his phalanges, or something to that extent.

The two sides are clearly not seeing eye-to-eye. Arod wants his money and to play, the organization wants to find some way to get rid of him and that contract. Whatever injuries you read or hear about with him, take that with a grain of salt. This is now a legal game.

Could be. I've been gone for the better part of a week so it might have happened a few days prior and I just read the article today. The problem, obviously is that the Yankees and Baseball do not want to see A-Rod back in pinstripes. I have no illusions as to what each side wants. The reality is, IMO, what I stated above for the Yanks/Commish. The other side of that is that he basically sucked in his rehab stint, in the few games he did play. I think he got like two hits in A-Ball down in Florida. He's not close to ready to play IMO. Is that because he has just declined so much or is that because of injury? I don't think anybody can say for sure at this point.

 

[Rogah]

Really? You don't do that? You don't point out spelling errors like that?

You never do that? Must just be another one of those things I don't know the difference between I suppose.

Sorry, but there's a difference between an obvious typographical error versus someone who clearly doesn't know the difference between "you're" and "your."

At this point, I believe that the jury is still out on what the League and or the Yankees might come to a conclusion on with regards to A-Rods injury situation. Just today, it was reported that the Yankees will impose an undisclosed fine upon A-Rod for attempting to get a second medical opinion on the state of his injury situation. Only approved Yankee medical staff can make such a determination and I'm certain that the Yankees are doing this for a reason.

I'm sure A-Rod is really going to lose sleep over the $20 thousand fine the Yanks give him.

For the record, I never once said that the Yankees would be successful with an insurance angle. What I said was that they might try and use that angle. I believe that Baseball, the Owners, the Players that are clean and possibly even the Union might want to fix this PEDs problem. I read what you said earlier on A-Rod wanting to accept less money on a contract and the MLBPA preventing him from doing so. The difference then and now, IMO, might be that then it was in the best interests of the players to prevent such a move. Now, because we may have a significant number of big time, big contract players missing a significant amount of time, it will effect contracts and salaries for the players that are clean and that could possibly be a reason the MLBPA might be in favor of looking for an alternative. I'm not saying that's the case but it's true that if something is not done about the contract situations with players who use, then Baseball and by default, the Players will ultimately suffer. The Owners will not continue to pay out the kinds of Contracts they have been paying out if they know that MLB will be serious about testing and the penalties will be stiff. The only real solution might be to agree to a void contract clause in the case of PEDs usage by players.

They may change the CBA, or put this into future CBA's, but for now there is absolutely no basis for owners to void contracts of players caught using PED's, and it will not be applied retroactively. I am not going to speculate on this, which is still years away, but I'll just reiterate what I've been saying all along: The Yankees are on the hook for every penny they owe Rodriguez, and will only be able to save the money he loses from his suspension. There will be no insurance payout, there will be no contract voiding. They may cut him, but they still have to pay him. Once he is healthy and rehabbed, they will have to call him up to the Majors and have him take a spot on the 25-man roster. They may trade him, but no team will take on that contract without the Yankees paying the vast majority of the total amount still due.

 

[Rogah]

This actually happened almost a week ago.

Ya I noticed that too. ABQ is pretty late to the table in a lot of this discussion.

The Yankees staff says he is hurt, Arod says he isn't and went for an unapproved 2nd opinion. That doc said he was fine. What we are seeing is a cat and mouse game between the two. Upper management doesn't want to see him take the field again. If Arod chipped a nail, he would have been designated for rehab because it is possible he broke his phalanges, or something to that extent.

A-Rod actually had a very interesting alibi that may allow him to avoid punishment on a technicality: He claimed the doctor never saw him and he never visited with the doctor. The doctor is nothing more than a guy who looked at the MRI and gave a professional opinion. LOL!

The two sides are clearly not seeing eye-to-eye. Arod wants his money and to play, the organization wants to find some way to get rid of him and that contract. Whatever injuries you read or hear about with him, take that with a grain of salt. This is now a legal game.

I hate A-Rod and I hate the Yankees - so I'm loving every minute of this. :-D :-D

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sorry, but there's a difference between an obvious typographical error versus someone who clearly doesn't know the difference between "you're" and "your."

Right, but only when it's your mistake right? It's cool, like you said, people can see things for themselves. I'm fine with it but clean your own back yard.

I'm sure A-Rod is really going to lose sleep over the $20 thousand fine the Yanks give him.
They may change the CBA, or put this into future CBA's, but for now there is absolutely no basis for owners to void contracts of players caught using PED's, and it will not be applied retroactively. I am not going to speculate on this, which is still years away, but I'll just reiterate what I've been saying all along: The Yankees are on the hook for every penny they owe Rodriguez, and will only be able to save the money he loses from his suspension. There will be no insurance payout, there will be no contract voiding. They may cut him, but they still have to pay him. Once he is healthy and rehabbed, they will have to call him up to the Majors and have him take a spot on the 25-man roster. They may trade him, but no team will take on that contract without the Yankees paying the vast majority of the total amount still due.

Nobody ever said there was any basis for owners to void contracts who have been caught using PEDs, except you.

The rest remains to be seen as to how it will shake out. I do not contest that the Yankees will have to eventually pay out what they owe but what that ends up being is still up in the air.

 

[Rogah]

Nobody ever said there was any basis for owners to void contracts who have been caught using PEDs, except you.

Oh my. Seriously, brah, what color is the sky on your world?

"if the Yankees medical staff can prove that the injury to his hip is a result of A-Rods usage of PEDs, then the Yankees can actually void the contract." - ABQCowboy, 6/27/13

"I never said his injury was related to steroid usage. I said if the Yankees could prove that, the contract could be voided." - ABQCowboy, 7/5/13

"2. If injuries are a direct result of Steroid Usage, that can be grounds for termination of contract." - ABQCowboy, 7/8/13

"The Union, nor the player has any legal right to do jack if a player is found to have sustained injury as a direct result of using PEDs. That is part of the Players and Owners agreement." - ABQCowboy, 7/8/13

"2. If injury is a direct result of the use of illegal substances such as PEDs, then a team has the right to void a contract." - ABQCowboy, 7/9/13

" If injuries sustained are directly related to and are a result of PEDs usage, then the contract can be voided." - ABQCowboy, 7/30/13

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Ya I noticed that too. ABQ is pretty late to the table in a lot of this discussion.

A-Rod actually had a very interesting alibi that may allow him to avoid punishment on a technicality: He claimed the doctor never saw him and he never visited with the doctor. The doctor is nothing more than a guy who looked at the MRI and gave a professional opinion. LOL!
I hate A-Rod and I hate the Yankees - so I'm loving every minute of this. :-D :-D

I doubt he has any out here. The

Oh my. Seriously, brah, what color is the sky on your world?

"if the Yankees medical staff can prove that the injury to his hip is a result of A-Rods usage of PEDs, then the Yankees can actually void the contract." - ABQCowboy, 6/27/13

"I never said his injury was related to steroid usage. I said if the Yankees could prove that, the contract could be voided." - ABQCowboy, 7/5/13

"2. If injuries are a direct result of Steroid Usage, that can be grounds for termination of contract." - ABQCowboy, 7/8/13

"The Union, nor the player has any legal right to do jack if a player is found to have sustained injury as a direct result of using PEDs. That is part of the Players and Owners agreement." - ABQCowboy, 7/8/13

"2. If injury is a direct result of the use of illegal substances such as PEDs, then a team has the right to void a contract." - ABQCowboy, 7/9/13

" If injuries sustained are directly related to and are a result of PEDs usage, then the contract can be voided." - ABQCowboy, 7/30/13

You just don't get it I guess. Either that or you refuse to acknowledge the facts. I never said that a player could be suspended for the use of PED's. In fact, I have gone out of my way to specifically make that clear. For all the greater then thou language you throw around for not understanding or not being able to spell or not being able to understand, you sure are slow on the uptake.

Once again, if an injury is found to be the result of the usage of PEDs and is career ending, then a contract can be voided. That is not the same as voiding a contract for the use of PED's Last time you asked me to provide a link and I did that. Apparently, you did that only to act as a pain in everybodies backside because clearly, you never bothered to read it.

"Baseball's drug policy was specifically written so that teams can't do things like this," one of the sources said. "You can't use this to try to get out of the last years of a contract."

The paragraph does not preclude a club from taking further action against a player who is unable to play because of injury or disability "resulting directly from a physical injury or mental condition arising from his violation of the Program" and allows a club to withhold a player's salary if he is unable to play due to legal proceedings or incarceration due to a drug violation."

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/sto...oid-alex-rodriguez-contract-according-sources


It's a reading comprehension thing. Try to stay with me here.

 

[Rogah]

You just don't get it I guess. Either that or you refuse to acknowledge the facts. I never said that a player could be suspended for the use of PED's. In fact, I have gone out of my way to specifically make that clear. For all the greater then thou language you throw around for not understanding or not being able to spell or not being able to understand, you sure are slow on the uptake.

Sure must be nice to be a moderator and throw out personal attacks and insults and not have to worry about any consequences.

You've been thoroughly PWNED left and right in this thread. Feel free to continue wallowing in ignorance, I will only be responding to knowledgeable fans in this thread. By your own admission, you're about a week behind the rest of us. Maybe by next week you will have read all the things that have gone on this week.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sure must be nice to be a moderator and throw out personal attacks and insults and not have to worry about any consequences.

You've been thoroughly PWNED left and right in this thread. Feel free to continue wallowing in ignorance, I will only be responding to knowledgeable fans in this thread. By your own admission, you're about a week behind the rest of us. Maybe by next week you will have read all the things that have gone on this week.

I imagine it feels about the same as it would if you were just a regular poster doing the same. However, if you feel as if you have been slighted in any way, I encourage you to go to one of the other MODs and discuss it. We are good about that kind of thing on this board and I am very confident that any MOD would be very willing to discuss that with you.

Absolutely, lose no time in that effort.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Article XIIB of MLB CBA:

Players may be disciplined for just cause for conduct that is materially detrimental or materially predjudicial to the best interests of Baseball including, but no tlimited to, Engaging in Conduct in violationof Federal, Stat or Local Law.​

This is the clause that the Commissioner will use to force a Life Time Ban if Rodriguez does not accept his Suspension. The Union has publicly stated that they will not intercede in any fines or penalties from MLB, against players who are guilty of violating MLB rules, assuming sufficient proof exists to prove such violations.

The baseball players' association may not go to bat for every player involved in Major League Baseball's latest drug investigation.

Union head Michael Weiner told the New York Daily News that the MLBPA is "not interested" in protecting players for whom overwhelming evidence exists that they used performance-enhancing drugs.

"I can tell you, if we have a case where there really is overwhelming evidence that a player committed a violation of the program, our fight is going to be that they make a deal," Weiner told the Daily News. "We're not interested in having players with overwhelming evidence that they violated the [drug] program out there. Most of the players aren't interested in that. We'd like to have a clean program."

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9488348/michael-weiner-mlbpa-head-says-union-protect-ped-users

A settlement, from A-Rod appears to be immanent. The terms of which, are still undisclosed.

​