Salary cap, greatness, also-ran, mediocrity, tanking

[waldoputty]

for those who has been here for a few years, u know where this is going.

the fo has been taking a conservative approach trying to emulate the pats without brady and without a great coach (or even an ok coach).

where is this leading, most likely not a superbowl.

with good but not great talent, what is the ceiling? superbowl is possible but not a likelihood.

so why not take a strategy that requires ups and downs instead of one that keeps the team at a good but great roster.

here are the 3 obvious approaches:
1. spend like crazy for 3 years - tank for 2 years - and repeat
why? the roster would be strong enough that even a garrett-level coach can win a superbowl with it
consequences? 1-2 years of suffering where you are cutting top defensive talent. why defense - can be mostly built using high draft picks in the tank years (particularly dbs and lbs)
with good cap management and drafting, you may extend the good years to 4 years
even with minimal free agents, this method works for keeping own players and tanking for draft picks in the planned bad years.
2. the cleveland route - tank for a few years - get picks and roll over larger amounts of cap dollars - go enjoy for a few glorious years - and repeat - again good restructuring management and drafting may extend the good years to 4 years.
this is not possible for us right now.
3. current method - build up roster and try to keep own players worth keeping.
why not do this - the conservative approach will never have the concentration of talent that the other 2 approaches can have unless you get really really lucky with the draft

so feast for 3 years and famine for 1 to 2 years.
it automatically reboots itself due to cap explosion and getting good draft picks.
personally i rather be really bad than be a decent upper-mid level team and look forward to the draft in the bad years.

 

[blueblood70]

for those who has been here for a few years, u know where this is going.

the fo has been taking a conservative approach trying to emulate the pats without brady and without a great coach (or even an ok coach).

where is this leading, most likely not a superbowl.

with good but not great talent, what is the ceiling? superbowl is possible but not a likelihood.

so why not take a strategy that requires ups and downs instead of one that keeps the team at a good but great roster.

here are the 3 obvious approaches:
1. spend like crazy for 3 years - tank for 2 years - and repeat
why? the roster would be strong enough that even a garrett-level coach can win a superbowl with it
consequences? 1-2 years of suffering where you are cutting top defensive talent. why defense - can be mostly built using high draft picks in the tank years (particularly dbs and lbs)
with good cap management and drafting, you may extend the good years to 4 years
2. the cleveland route - tank for a few years - get picks and roll over larger amounts of cap dollars - go enjoy for a few glorious years - and repeat - again good restructuring management and drafting may extend the good years to 4 years.
this is not possible for us right now.
3. current method - build up roster and try to keep own players worth keeping.
why not do this - the conservative approach will never have the concentration of talent that the other 2 approaches can have

so feast for 3 years and famine for 1 to 2 years.
it automatically reboots itself due to cap explosion and getting good draft picks.
personally i rather be really bad than be a decent upper-mid level team and look forward to the draft in the bad years.

LMAO Cleveland is the formula now, its been like 15years for them, last 6-7 being the worst team in the league and say what you want about our GM, theirs had like 6 years of 2 first round picks that turned into utter failures..they do NOT do this in few years..

I also disagree with the thought of tanking and being horrible for 3 years and reboot..its hardly worked for anyone, the only team I can think did this to a degree but most was luck was the debacle with Chip Kelley in Philly and the seemingly quick turnaround to aSB..thats rare and not the norm..if it were that easy wed have new SB champion and two new SB teams nearly every year when really its been NE VS whomever yearly..

no one has formula, sometimes it just works like the quick Seatle and Sanfran runs that now have them no better then us and some ways our consistent down the middle play has us at least competitive every year.. yes I want a SB but sucking on purpose ie tanking and forcing a rebuild or reboot every 3 years or so with no guarantees..no way

sorry we could be better made better moves but no way that post makes any sense to me or it would be used by all 32 teams and then what they are all the same and back to parody?

 

[waldoputty]

LMAO Cleveland is the formula now, its been like 15years for them, last 6-7 being the worst team in the league and say what you want about our GM, theirs had like 6 years of 2 first round picks that turned into utter failures..they do NOT do this in few years..

I also disagree with the thought of tanking and being horrible for 3 years and reboot..its hardly worked for anyone, the only team I can think did this to a degree but most was luck was the debacle with Chip Kelley in Philly and the seemingly quick turnaround to aSB..thats rare and not the norm..if it were that easy wed have new SB champion and two new SB teams nearly every year when really its been NE VS whomever yearly..

no one has formula, sometimes it just works like the quick Seatle and Sanfran runs that now have them no better then us and some ways our consistent down the middle play has us at least competitive every year.. yes I want a SB but sucking on purpose ie tanking and forcing a rebuild or reboot every 3 years or so with no guarantees..no way

sorry we could be better made better moves but no way that post makes any sense to me or it would be used by all 32 teams and then what they are all the same and back to parody?

if u look at the cleveland roster, their key players were drafted, signed or traded for in the last 2-3 years. they finally got their house in order.

there are never guarantees on life, just pick the most rational approach once you decide on the goal. is it superbowl or bust? or r u satisfied being just good.

 

[Creeper]

What we do know is that the Cowboys have not really won anything in over 20 years. Clearly something has to change. They can have a good regular season once in a while but they can't get over the hump. I keep pointing to 2016. They were so close but the next years they regressed. Their strength became a weakness and they had to scramble to fix an area, offensive line, that was a strength. It always seems to be that way with Dallas. Watch next year the secondary will fall apart. Or they will mess u the negotiations with DLaw and he'll be gone leaving them with no pass rush again. You just know its coming. Its like Jerry is the kid trying to fix the holes in the damn but he only has 1 finger.

 

[waldoputty]

What we do know is that the Cowboys have not really won anything in over 20 years. Clearly something has to change. They can have a good regular season once in a while but they can't get over the hump. I keep pointing to 2016. They were so close but the next years they regressed. Their strength became a weakness and they had to scramble to fix an area, offensive line, that was a strength. It always seems to be that way with Dallas. Watch next year the secondary will fall apart. Or they will mess u the negotiations with DLaw and he'll be gone leaving them with no pass rush again. You just know its coming. Its like Jerry is the kid trying to fix the holes in the damn but he only has 1 finger.

it is not possible to plug every hole in the dam because the nfl is designed that way. so it is really what goal do you want to set up. do you want to be the pats without brady? or do u want to go for it for a few years and pay for the consequences while automatically reloading (tank by design)?

 

[Mr_Strol]

if u look at the cleveland roster, their key players were drafted, signed or traded for in the last 2-3 years. they finally got their house in order.

there are never guarantees on life, just pick the most rational approach once you decide on the goal. is it superbowl or bust? or r u satisfied being just good.

While I agree with the premise of the post...... Cleveland has their house in order? They have had two winning seasons this millennium, and there are zero guarantees they will have one next year.

 

[blueblood70]

if u look at the cleveland roster, their key players were drafted, signed or traded for in the last 2-3 years. they finally got their house in order.

there are never guarantees on life, just pick the most rational approach once you decide on the goal. is it superbowl or bust? or r u satisfied being just good.

again bad example all the same moves were tried the prior 10years and they still sucked..get it, I do, they dont have a formula they finally got it right with mostly luck getting Baker and Chubbs to work but 10years running they did the same thing QB and RB all sucked....hey have had the same opportunity's in the draft and it failed..sometimes it better to be lucky then good,

oh and BTW saying what they've done NOW while they were what 7-9 last yaer and just using projections is a failed argument giving you are guessing.. if its only NFCCG and SBs well lets see what CLE does before we use them as some kind of genius formula LMAO Cleveland right i can care no less about what they LOOK like on paper..

 

[waldoputty]

While I agree with the premise of the post...... Cleveland has their house in order? They have had two winning seasons this millennium, and there are zero guarantees they will have one next year.

their current gm, hired in 2017, helped built the current chiefs team in the several years before that.

 

[waldoputty]

again bad example all the same moves were tried the prior 10years and they still sucked..get it, I do, they dont have a formula they finally got it right with mostly luck getting Baker and Chubbs to work but 10years running they did the same thing QB and RB all sucked....hey have had the same opportunity's in the draft and it failed..sometimes it better to be lucky then good,

oh and BTW saying what they've done NOW while they were what 7-9 last yaer and just using projections is a failed argument giving you are guessing.. if its only NFCCG and SBs well lets see what CLE does before we use them as some kind of genius formula LMAO Cleveland right i can care no less about what they LOOK like on paper..

actually their current gm, who helped built the current chiefs team, was hired in 2017.

that approach is actually not possible for us right now with the team's salary cap trajectory.

approach 1 is possible - where they extend dlaw and all the young stars and then sign top free agents - before an implosion in 3-4 years. but that is when you dump defensive contracts and reload on the draft for 1-2 years, probably 2.

 

[Mr_Strol]

their current gm, hired in 2017, helped built the current chiefs team in the several years before that.

Many Cleveland GMs had success before coming to Cleveland.

 

[waldoputty]

Many Cleveland GMs had success before coming to Cleveland.

sure, but look at what this guy has done. traded for 2 of giants' best pieces and they have all those draft picks. their roster trajectory is looking really good.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

for those who has been here for a few years, u know where this is going.

the fo has been taking a conservative approach trying to emulate the pats without brady and without a great coach (or even an ok coach).

where is this leading, most likely not a superbowl.

with good but not great talent, what is the ceiling? superbowl is possible but not a likelihood.

so why not take a strategy that requires ups and downs instead of one that keeps the team at a good but great roster.

here are the 3 obvious approaches:
1. spend like crazy for 3 years - tank for 2 years - and repeat
why? the roster would be strong enough that even a garrett-level coach can win a superbowl with it
consequences? 1-2 years of suffering where you are cutting top defensive talent. why defense - can be mostly built using high draft picks in the tank years (particularly dbs and lbs)
with good cap management and drafting, you may extend the good years to 4 years
even with minimal free agents, this method works for keeping own players and tanking for draft picks in the planned bad years.
2. the cleveland route - tank for a few years - get picks and roll over larger amounts of cap dollars - go enjoy for a few glorious years - and repeat - again good restructuring management and drafting may extend the good years to 4 years.
this is not possible for us right now.
3. current method - build up roster and try to keep own players worth keeping.
why not do this - the conservative approach will never have the concentration of talent that the other 2 approaches can have unless you get really really lucky with the draft

so feast for 3 years and famine for 1 to 2 years.
it automatically reboots itself due to cap explosion and getting good draft picks.
personally i rather be really bad than be a decent upper-mid level team and look forward to the draft in the bad years.

Current method has a top 10 roster in the league, that isnt in cap hell who can resign all their major players with no issues while adding talent annually through the draft and smart FA pick ups.

Need a new coach? Sure won't argue that.

 

[xwalker]

for those who has been here for a few years, u know where this is going.

the fo has been taking a conservative approach trying to emulate the pats without brady and without a great coach (or even an ok coach).

where is this leading, most likely not a superbowl.

with good but not great talent, what is the ceiling? superbowl is possible but not a likelihood.

so why not take a strategy that requires ups and downs instead of one that keeps the team at a good but great roster.

here are the 3 obvious approaches:
1. spend like crazy for 3 years - tank for 2 years - and repeat
why? the roster would be strong enough that even a garrett-level coach can win a superbowl with it
consequences? 1-2 years of suffering where you are cutting top defensive talent. why defense - can be mostly built using high draft picks in the tank years (particularly dbs and lbs)
with good cap management and drafting, you may extend the good years to 4 years
even with minimal free agents, this method works for keeping own players and tanking for draft picks in the planned bad years.
2. the cleveland route - tank for a few years - get picks and roll over larger amounts of cap dollars - go enjoy for a few glorious years - and repeat - again good restructuring management and drafting may extend the good years to 4 years.
this is not possible for us right now.
3. current method - build up roster and try to keep own players worth keeping.
why not do this - the conservative approach will never have the concentration of talent that the other 2 approaches can have unless you get really really lucky with the draft

so feast for 3 years and famine for 1 to 2 years.
it automatically reboots itself due to cap explosion and getting good draft picks.
personally i rather be really bad than be a decent upper-mid level team and look forward to the draft in the bad years.

#2 Cleveland Browns method

#3 New England Patriots method

The few glorious years have yet to happen for the Browns.

 

[waldoputty]

Current method has a top 10 roster in the league, that isnt in cap hell who can resign all their major players with no issues while adding talent annually through the draft and smart FA pick ups.

Need a new coach? Sure won't argue that.

it is a preference thing.
do you want 8 years of a top 10 roster with a superbowl winning probability of less than 15%.
or do you want 5 years of a top 3 roster with a superbowl winning probability of >25% and 3 years of 5-11 (or preferably worse).

 

[waldoputty]

#2 Cleveland Browns method

#3 New England Patriots method

The few glorious years have yet to happen for the Browns.

note that putty's preferred method is #1.
#2 is not even possible for us but offered up for completeness in the discussion.

 

[xwalker]

for those who has been here for a few years, u know where this is going.

the fo has been taking a conservative approach trying to emulate the pats without brady and without a great coach (or even an ok coach).

where is this leading, most likely not a superbowl.

with good but not great talent, what is the ceiling? superbowl is possible but not a likelihood.

so why not take a strategy that requires ups and downs instead of one that keeps the team at a good but great roster.

here are the 3 obvious approaches:
1. spend like crazy for 3 years - tank for 2 years - and repeat
why? the roster would be strong enough that even a garrett-level coach can win a superbowl with it
consequences? 1-2 years of suffering where you are cutting top defensive talent. why defense - can be mostly built using high draft picks in the tank years (particularly dbs and lbs)
with good cap management and drafting, you may extend the good years to 4 years
even with minimal free agents, this method works for keeping own players and tanking for draft picks in the planned bad years.
2. the cleveland route - tank for a few years - get picks and roll over larger amounts of cap dollars - go enjoy for a few glorious years - and repeat - again good restructuring management and drafting may extend the good years to 4 years.
this is not possible for us right now.
3. current method - build up roster and try to keep own players worth keeping.
why not do this - the conservative approach will never have the concentration of talent that the other 2 approaches can have unless you get really really lucky with the draft

so feast for 3 years and famine for 1 to 2 years.
it automatically reboots itself due to cap explosion and getting good draft picks.
personally i rather be really bad than be a decent upper-mid level team and look forward to the draft in the bad years.

#1 and #2 seem like the same method.

#1/#2 vs #3 is basically inventing long term vs day-trading. A few have gotten rich from day trading but the vast majority have gone broke.

 

[Bullflop]

An elite team requires elite talent sprinkled evenly throughout their roster to truly be competitive for SB status. Unfortunately, for the Cowboys, elite management is required to maintain a healthy cap situation, largely through their prudent contractual dealings and talent acquisitions.

Anytime a team's management is content to acquire average veteran FA signings on an perennial basis, the talent base is hamstrung by the acquisition of an ongoing overload of average performers at far too many positions of need. The draft just isn't enough to feed that bulldog adequately.

The Cowboys' FO loves making speeches claiming to be dedicated to achieving SB championship status, while failing deliberately to provide the managerial proficiency and honest efforts to make their stated intentions possible. Falling for that con job year after year is, or at least should be, angrily embarrassing for any fan doing so. I refuse to buy into that BS and sincerely hope you'll come to feel the same, if you haven't already. It's a farce, folks!

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

if u look at the cleveland roster, their key players were drafted, signed or traded for in the last 2-3 years. they finally got their house in order.

there are never guarantees on life, just pick the most rational approach once you decide on the goal. is it superbowl or bust? or r u satisfied being just good.

Cleveland sucked last year. Why are they the model?

 

[waldoputty]

#1 and #2 seem like the same method.

#1/#2 vs #3 is basically inventing long term vs day-trading. A few have gotten rich from day trading but the vast majority have gone broke.

#1 vs #2 depends on where u r in the cap cycle.

note that the giants seem like they r executing #2.
lose the contracts this year and taking cap hit
probably drafting wr and dl talent that takes a year or 2 to develop.
tanking gets them the qb next year with strong qb draft year.
wasting barkley's prime but oh well.

actually #2 is the opposite of day trading - it is the ultimate long term investment though with a sunset date.
also stock trading is a horrible model for this as the salary cap constraint changes investment strategies.

 

[ClappingCarrot]

I would like to note that Cleveland's sudden (although yet to be proven) turn-around can only be attributed to one thing: a switch to a real GM.

Don't look for that to happen in Dallas.