Saw the Cowboys/Packers Dez non catch game on NFL network

[KJJ]

I think those stats were very misleading. We got a ton of defensive turnovers that season and took advantage of a very weak division with the Giants/Commanders. This offense killed the bad teams and struggled against the elite ones.

2007 offense was real good, but they probably peaked to early and caught the Giants at the wrong time. Didn't help that TO just got back from injury.

You can’t completely ignore the stats or be critical of the division we played in. The team peaked early in 07 and faded in Dec/Jan. We agree on that.

 

[Bamx]

They took Murray in the 3rd rd, Hampton isn't a generational back and not worthy of a 1st rd pick. Good, solid runner, but not special. Murray had a great OL that made him look better then what he really was.

There been some talk to Omarion could have a better career than Ashton Jeanty. Some think that Jeanty has been mainly all hype

 

[McKDaddy]

You can't "re-"establish if you haven't first established. The overall rule was control, 2 feet and time. If you couldn't establish the time portion and you were going to the ground, keeping possession of the ball all the way through (and keeping it off the ground) is what they considered meeting that time marker and then it is a catch. You go to the ground and football moves are off the table except if you can perform a lunge. Dez did not and thus it was incomplete.

We disagree on the time portion as Dez clearly landed upright with his shoulders at least parallel to the sideline if not slightly turned back toward the LOS tucked the ball away, then resumed movement upfield (including trying to navigate the defender flopping at his feet) culminating in a lunge toward the goal line. He didn't get from the 6 yard line to the 6 inch line without time elapsing.

Overall picture though, the rule was put in place for one reason & one reason only. Teams were taking advantage of "going to the ground" to nullify aspects of the rules defining what was a catch & often shielding the ball from clear view to know if the receiver caught it cleanly.

The league hosed the writing of the language thus allowing it to become more broadly applied than the issue it was intended to address. That is the short & sweet truth of the situation. I saw an interview with one of the NFL guys and he admitted that the original intent was going to the ground in order to make the catch not going to the ground AFTER the catch had been secured.

 

[EGTuna]

There’s a few things people miss about that game….the fg miss, fumble….the fact the Dez catch was on 4th and 2…could’ve got something shorter…

Murray was wide open for an easy conversion and would have taken more time off the clock.

 

[Praxit]

Some of my thoughts:

-This may of been the best Cowboy offense we have seen over the last 20 years:

-Elite OL (Leary/Parnell), Elite running game(Murray), very good receiving options (prime Dez, Witten, Beasley and TWilliams) Huge Murray fumble at the end of the 1st half was a big momentum swing.

-Defense was very suspect. Couldn't get any pressure on a injured Rodgers. Rookie Devonta Adams had a huge game as the Cowboy defenders keyed on stopping Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb. Huge 3rd and 15 for a long TD in the 3rd qrt changed the game.

Dez call was total BS as we all know, but it wouldn't of mattered as the defense couldn't get a stop.

Some conclusions based on what I saw compared to this Cowboy Team:

-Our current offense has similar receiving weapons, but the OL/run game is the biggest difference. It makes sense that they made fixing the run game an offseason priority. It is still very much a work in progress.

-Defensively, our current group is far more talented.

Mincey/Selvie and a rookie DLaw were our pass rushers. Hayden/Crawford were our DT's. McClain was out due to injury, saw Hitchens/Carter at backer, Carr/Steling Moore were at corner, Scandrick in the nickel, Wilcox/Heath at Safety.

Remember our DC was Marinelli and Eberflus was our LB coach. Eberflus did a tremendous job was turning around McClain's career at the time, Hitchens was suppose to be a undrafted fa and became a solid starter. Point is, don't discount Eberflus coaching chops.

..yep, that Murray fumble was difference in game. Worst yet, on replay, if he doesn't fumble he gets clear shot to end zone. No defender in area within 10 yds.

That my friends is EFFEN back luck we've had, for years now.

 

[Cowboyny]

There been some talk to Omarion could have a better career than Ashton Jeanty. Some think that Jeanty has been mainly all hype

Jeanty is by far the better prospect and why he was taken in the top 10. Hampton was always viewed on the next tier.

 

[Cowboyny]

D Law had a couple sacks in the Detroit game right

I believe he did. If I remember, he made a bone head play, but sealed the victory with a strip sack fumble.

 

[fivetwos]

Might have. There was a safety deep that would have gotten him I think. But if we do score there it would have been 21-10. Rodgers came back from 21-13 even later in the game including a 90-yard drive that took all of 2:13 and followed it up with an 80-yard drive that took 4:19. Green Bay almost took longer than each of those drives running out the clock at the end of the game (4:06). So when folks say the defense let us down that day, I tend to agree. Murray fumbled and GB got a FG. Rodgers fumbled and we got a TD out of it. We came out on top with turnovers I'd say so Murray's much further down my list.

Momentum thing on Murray.

The rest of the game plays differently without that play. Yes, can say that about many plays in any game, but I thought it was the most impactful in that one.

If Dallas scores on the Dez play drive, including that play being a catch and not much more time removed, I don’t at all believe Dallas makes a stop and wins the game. Just no way. The loss may have been even worse in fact.

 

[Reid1boys]

If he had "fumbled" I would understand. But he was straight up "stripped". Peppers "made" a play. I can't blame DeMarco nor can I not give Pep his due.

That whole was the size of a mac truck and an 87 year old lineman was able to step you. Nah... screw Murray.

 

[Bamx]

Jeanty is by far the better prospect and why he was taken in the top 10. Hampton was always viewed on the next tier.

In the 1990 NFL draft Blair Thomas was taken 2nd overall while Emmitt was taken 17th overall. Who went on to have the better career?

 

[MarcusRock]

We disagree on the time portion as Dez clearly landed upright with his shoulders at least parallel to the sideline if not slightly turned back toward the LOS tucked the ball away, then resumed movement upfield (including trying to navigate the defender flopping at his feet) culminating in a lunge toward the goal line. He didn't get from the 6 yard line to the 6 inch line without time elapsing.

Overall picture though, the rule was put in place for one reason & one reason only. Teams were taking advantage of "going to the ground" to nullify aspects of the rules defining what was a catch & often shielding the ball from clear view to know if the receiver caught it cleanly.

The league hosed the writing of the language thus allowing it to become more broadly applied than the issue it was intended to address. That is the short & sweet truth of the situation. I saw an interview with one of the NFL guys and he admitted that the original intent was going to the ground in order to make the catch not going to the ground AFTER the catch had been secured.

Dez was doing all those things as he was going to the ground. There was a rule for that kind of thing.

 

[MarcusRock]

..yep, that Murray fumble was difference in game. Worst yet, on replay, if he doesn't fumble he gets clear shot to end zone. No defender in area within 10 yds.

That my friends is EFFEN back luck we've had, for years now.

People keep saying that but there was a safety deep that wasn't in sideline TV view. That guy catches Murray worst case at the GB 30. Maybe we get points. Maybe we get nothing since Bailey had already missed a FG at this point.

 

[MarcusRock]

Momentum thing on Murray.

The rest of the game plays differently without that play. Yes, can say that about many plays in any game, but I thought it was the most impactful in that one.

If Dallas scores on the Dez play drive, including that play being a catch and not much more time removed, I don’t at all believe Dallas makes a stop and wins the game. Just no way. The loss may have been even worse in fact.

It was impactful, not denying that. But if Rodgers doesn't fumble in Dallas territory in the 2nd, maybe it's them that goes up 14-7 instead of us. How would that game play with us needing to catch up AND keep them off the board? So many ways.

 

[gimmesix]

Bro, it's denial. By the rules at the time, Dez needed to hold on to the ball all the way through contact with the ground. So it wasn't called a catch because it wasn't one. Crappy rules that had snared others, including Dez himself just the year before (but we won that game so no one cared), so they changed it. Unfortunate, and it ruined what was a great game if you step back from the heartbreak. But it was what it was 10 years ago.

My only argument with you on this is the rules at the time said two feet down and a football move. Dez shifted the ball to one arm and was reaching toward the goal line when he hit the ground and fumbled. He was trying to score by making a football move. Yes, the officials could have called it incomplete because he lost the ball going to the ground, but since it was ruled complete, I would argue that the evidence was not conclusive concerning the football move to overturn it.

That's been my stance since it happened, but there's no use rehashing it over and over, so I'm going to stop there.

 

[Praxit]

People keep saying that but there was a safety deep that wasn't in sideline TV view. That guy catches Murray worst case at the GB 30. Maybe we get points. Maybe we get nothing since Bailey had already missed a FG at this point.

..wow, good shot. Yep, Maybe he does catch him. But he picks up at least 30-40.
We had damn good offense that year.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

He is just 20 years old. The biggest issue is his lack of instincts, which is huge for the linebacker position. Can the mental processing improve with more experience?

Man, it goes back to "can a QB develop accuracy"? Some seem to think no, but we've seen guys do it. I'm gonna say with more experience, the game will become easier for a linebacker....

Murray was wide open for an easy conversion and would have taken more time off the clock.

I agree.....

 

[Coogiguy03]

30 years later since the game what is the NFL going to do change it to a catch and award us the win!?? It's over put it to rest

 

[SultanOfSix]

We disagree on the time portion as Dez clearly landed upright with his shoulders at least parallel to the sideline if not slightly turned back toward the LOS tucked the ball away, then resumed movement upfield (including trying to navigate the defender flopping at his feet) culminating in a lunge toward the goal line. He didn't get from the 6 yard line to the 6 inch line without time elapsing.

Overall picture though, the rule was put in place for one reason & one reason only. Teams were taking advantage of "going to the ground" to nullify aspects of the rules defining what was a catch & often shielding the ball from clear view to know if the receiver caught it cleanly.

The league hosed the writing of the language thus allowing it to become more broadly applied than the issue it was intended to address. That is the short & sweet truth of the situation. I saw an interview with one of the NFL guys and he admitted that the original intent was going to the ground in order to make the catch not going to the ground AFTER the catch had been secured.

You're arguing with someone who is always going to side with the refs probably because he has some emotional ties to officiating.

The rule states that the receiver has to maintain possession through the process of going to the ground, but it never establishes clearly what the latter is. Because the main concern is establishing possession which is what makes it a catch. If he establishes possession by performing a football move as the rule states, then that effectively nullifies the going to the ground process. This is why if a receiver catches the ball with his feet in the air, comes down and then takes two steps (establishing possession), and the ball is knocked out or he stumbles to the ground right after and the ball comes loose, it's a fumble. Dez caught the ball, switched the ball in the air to one hand, then leaped and outstretched the ball in his forearm to goal line attempting to score a TD, more than enough football moves to establish that he had possession even if it can be loosely read that he was still in the process of going to the ground. It's not the latter that really matters, but maintaining possession through to the end of it and where that can be established.

 

[JohnsKey19]

That fumble was the turning point

Agree with this. Obviously Murray gets and deserves blame but Peppers made a great play there. Bummer....

 

[MarcusRock]

My only argument with you on this is the rules at the time said two feet down and a football move. Dez shifted the ball to one arm and was reaching toward the goal line when he hit the ground and fumbled. He was trying to score by making a football move. Yes, the officials could have called it incomplete because he lost the ball going to the ground, but since it was ruled complete, I would argue that the evidence was not conclusive concerning the football move to overturn it.

That's been my stance since it happened, but there's no use rehashing it over and over, so I'm going to stop there.

I hear you. But the actual catch rule is possession, two feet, and time. A "football move" is an element of time. When going to the ground, securing the ball all the way through is the element of time instead of a football move. That's why anything Dez did in the air or on his feet doesn't matter with the GTTG label. Not only that but the GTTG label supersedes the upright catch rules when it's applied (in the rule change it doesn't now). The ONLY move that gets you out of going to the ground is performing a lunge, probably because that proves you aren't "just falling to the ground" as Dez was from his peak all the way to the ground. Nothing he does changes his trajectory in that regard, not even the little elbow extension. The officials were looking for a lunge to call it a catch and it just didn't happen.