Screens: Saints and Philly's bread and butter play evades Garrett's playbook

[Nightshade]

The Owner says that it's crucial to get the ball into Felix's hands. It seems pretty straight forward that Felix, Marty B, Tashard Choice and even Marion Barber would be killer on the screen play.

Defenses around the league focus on blitzing Romo before he can get the ball downfield to the Cowboy receivers going out on intermediate routes.

The little bubble screen to Ogletree was extremely effective.

All of these factors simply CRY OUT for a great deal more screen plays.

We have the players, we have the technology. What's stopping our "brilliant" OC Jason Garrett from running the plays that have made the Saints and Philly so successful?

Any insight would be very much appreciated.

 

[CF74]

When something fails once in a game, such as the screen, Garrett has been reluctant to try it again. That's his MO. Some things are very obvious like the Razorback to Choice, after we got that 66 yarder it was plain to see they wouldn't fall for it again but he tried it anyway. Sometimes he calls plays or doesn't call plays that make you scratch your head. Drives me nuts but it just pops out and I can't ignore it...:bang2:

 

[joseephuss]

Dallas does not have the players. It also takes a certain type of offensive lineman to run effective screens. Dallas can run a few screens a game and they do, but I don't think they have the lineman to be a heavy screen team.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

I would like to see different routes where they get the ball at least a few yards past the LOS(like the Barber play last week),,, seems like when they get the ball in the flat behind the LOS they have to fight to get just 3 yards.

 

[pgreptom]

Honestly, I feel like JG is holding back the playbook. I haven't seen too many plays.. it almost seems preseason like to me. I've only seen Romo roll out a handful of times.. you don't see a lot of screens. I think the playcalling will be greatly altered in about three weeks.

 

[TheCount]

I think we need more intermediate routes really, I mean I don't expect us to run the screen 8 times a game but we really should be sending Miles on more intermediate crossing routes. Seems like he just runs deep 80% of the time. I know they want Witten to have the middle to himself, but still.

 

[hmcorp]

screen plays take LOTS of practice and takes a certain kind of offensive line. we tend to not be successful because our lineman cannot get out on the secondary. (see barber getting upended on screens etc)

whereas tight end screens seem to work better because of a better baility to shed the blocker and move forward ( the blocker being a DE or something)

 

[21Savage]

For people who are saying we don't have the linemen for it, check out the linemen that the Eagles have.

NO also has a power running style with bigger linemen.

We've also been successful in the screen game multiple times this season. There's just this perception out there that we don't run it well. This might mainly be because we run it at predictable times like 3rd and 20.

I agree we don't run it enough. And it'll serve it keeping a D off balance and might be more effective than the draw at that.

But saying we don't run it well is just misconceived.

 

[cowboyjoe]

The Owner says that it's crucial to get the ball into Felix's hands. It seems pretty straight forward that Felix, Marty B, Tashard Choice and even Marion Barber would be killer on the screen play.

Defenses around the league focus on blitzing Romo before he can get the ball downfield to the Cowboy receivers going out on intermediate routes.

The little bubble screen to Ogletree was extremely effective.

All of these factors simply CRY OUT for a great deal more screen plays.

We have the players, we have the technology. What's stopping our "brilliant" OC Jason Garrett from running the plays that have made the Saints and Philly so successful?

Any insight would be very much appreciated.

One big thing, think about this; first lets look at the great sean payton career in coaching ok''

1997-1998 Phily Eagles quarterbacks coach

1999 new york giants qb coach

2000-2002 new york giants offensive coordinator In this area, a couple of times the head coach had to take play calling duties away from sean, remember?

2003-2005 assistant head coach and quarterbacks coach Dallas Cowboys
If you remember one yr in between 2003 & 05, parcells had to take away the play calling duties away from sean, in fact some of his playcalling was down right awful, we as fans were saying what was that;

2006-Saints head coach of saints, ok what head coach advised sean payton on a QB, was parcells, sean asked him about a QB and Bill Parcells advised Brees.

Ok, it took sean payton when starting as an offensive coordinator from 2000 to 2005 about 6 years before he became a head coach.

Now, lets look at jason garrett bio

Miami Dolphins (2005–2006)
(Quarterbacks coach)
Dallas Cowboys (2007)
(Offensive Coordinator)
Dallas Cowboys (2008)
(Offensive Coordinator and Assistant Head Coach)

In reality Jason has had only 3 years as an offensive coordinator, give him some time, it takes awhile to learn, see what teams are doing to you, get players on your team and have a elite qb that is experienced like drew brees was when sean payton got brees in 2006.

Like i mentioned this year about midseason when romo gets his 50th game under his belt of seeing defenses, game plans, growing up as a leader. Takes time you dont do it overnight.

I do feel that after 3-4 years, you should see something in your players and coaches that have the experience. Its like Jimmy Johnson, it took him from 1989 to basically 1991 to learn the learning curve in the NFL, get good players and coaches. Thats 3 years for Jimmy Johnson to start doing things.

So, give it some time, at the end of this year and going into next year, then there shouldnt be no more excuses for jason garrett.

 

[Faerluna]

For people who are saying we don't have the linemen for it, check out the linemen that the Eagles have.

I think it was NFC Playbook the other night on NFLN they were saying that Andy Reid calls that "Elephants on Parade" when they run the screens.

Seriously.

 

[Nightshade]

One big thing, think about this; first lets look at the great sean payton career in coaching ok''

1997-1998 Phily Eagles quarterbacks coach

1999 new york giants qb coach

2000-2002 new york giants offensive coordinator In this area, a couple of times the head coach had to take play calling duties away from sean, remember?

2003-2005 assistant head coach and quarterbacks coach Dallas Cowboys
If you remember one yr in between 2003 & 05, parcells had to take away the play calling duties away from sean, in fact some of his playcalling was down right awful, we as fans were saying what was that;

2006-Saints head coach of saints, ok what head coach advised sean payton on a QB, was parcells, sean asked him about a QB and Bill Parcells advised Brees.

Ok, it took sean payton when starting as an offensive coordinator from 2000 to 2005 about 6 years before he became a head coach.

Now, lets look at jason garrett bio

Miami Dolphins (2005–2006)
(Quarterbacks coach)
Dallas Cowboys (2007)
(Offensive Coordinator)
Dallas Cowboys (2008)
(Offensive Coordinator and Assistant Head Coach)

In reality Jason has had only 3 years as an offensive coordinator, give him some time, it takes awhile to learn, see what teams are doing to you, get players on your team and have a elite qb that is experienced like drew brees was when sean payton got brees in 2006.

Like i mentioned this year about midseason when romo gets his 50th game under his belt of seeing defenses, game plans, growing up as a leader. Takes time you dont do it overnight.

I do feel that after 3-4 years, you should see something in your players and coaches that have the experience. Its like Jimmy Johnson, it took him from 1989 to basically 1991 to learn the learning curve in the NFL, get good players and coaches. Thats 3 years for Jimmy Johnson to start doing things.

So, give it some time, at the end of this year and going into next year, then there shouldnt be no more excuses for jason garrett.

So you're saying Garrett's not that good yet but he might get better.

AGREED!!

He's not that good. There are SERIOUS problems with his play selection and a lack of an effective screen used at decisive moments (i.e. to spell a blitzing defense) is a terrible symptom of Garrett's in-effectiveness. I've heard this B.S. about our lineman not being athletic enough. JTT made this argument in his recent analysis. I don't think this is accurate. Garrett just sticks with certain plays he feels are effective and has a problem changing course in the middle of a game.

 

[sonnyboy]

The Owner says that it's crucial to get the ball into Felix's hands. It seems pretty straight forward that Felix, Marty B, Tashard Choice and even Marion Barber would be killer on the screen play.

Defenses around the league focus on blitzing Romo before he can get the ball downfield to the Cowboy receivers going out on intermediate routes.

The little bubble screen to Ogletree was extremely effective.

All of these factors simply CRY OUT for a great deal more screen plays.

We have the players, we have the technology. What's stopping our "brilliant" OC Jason Garrett from running the plays that have made the Saints and Philly so successful?

Any insight would be very much appreciated.

Disclaimer : I'm not bashing you, just making a humerous reply.


TOP 4 Things you're not likely to read a fan post:

1) I wish my team wouldn't blitz so much.
2) I wish my team would run less play action pass.
3) I wish my team would pass more often.
4) I wish my team would run fewer screen plays

 

[Trendnet]

So basically the playbook should only consist of running plays and screen plays.

 

[sonnyboy]

So basically the playbook should only consist of running plays and screen plays.

No That's not possible. Screen plays are passes!
You just need to make sure you run the screen off a play action pass.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

The screen pass can be dismissed by those who say we don't have the OL and don't practice it enough. OK. I don't agree but fair enough.

However, the quick pass to the RB in the flat is a no brainer. Yet, the Cowboys very rarely use it. Used a not-so-quick pass to Barber in the flat that went for about 40 yds vs. Oak. Never saw it again after that.

 

[NextGenBoys]

One big thing, think about this; first lets look at the great sean payton career in coaching ok''

1997-1998 Phily Eagles quarterbacks coach

1999 new york giants qb coach

2000-2002 new york giants offensive coordinator In this area, a couple of times the head coach had to take play calling duties away from sean, remember?

2003-2005 assistant head coach and quarterbacks coach Dallas Cowboys
If you remember one yr in between 2003 & 05, parcells had to take away the play calling duties away from sean, in fact some of his playcalling was down right awful, we as fans were saying what was that;

2006-Saints head coach of saints, ok what head coach advised sean payton on a QB, was parcells, sean asked him about a QB and Bill Parcells advised Brees.

Ok, it took sean payton when starting as an offensive coordinator from 2000 to 2005 about 6 years before he became a head coach.

Now, lets look at jason garrett bio

Miami Dolphins (2005–2006)
(Quarterbacks coach)
Dallas Cowboys (2007)
(Offensive Coordinator)
Dallas Cowboys (2008)
(Offensive Coordinator and Assistant Head Coach)

In reality Jason has had only 3 years as an offensive coordinator, give him some time, it takes awhile to learn, see what teams are doing to you, get players on your team and have a elite qb that is experienced like drew brees was when sean payton got brees in 2006.

Like i mentioned this year about midseason when romo gets his 50th game under his belt of seeing defenses, game plans, growing up as a leader. Takes time you dont do it overnight.

I do feel that after 3-4 years, you should see something in your players and coaches that have the experience. Its like Jimmy Johnson, it took him from 1989 to basically 1991 to learn the learning curve in the NFL, get good players and coaches. Thats 3 years for Jimmy Johnson to start doing things.

So, give it some time, at the end of this year and going into next year, then there shouldnt be no more excuses for jason garrett.

Which is exactly, and I mean EXACTLY the reason I dont want to see him go to another team.

He IS learning, and he WILL get better. I want to be the team to reap those benefits, not some other team. I dont want Garrett to be the next Sean Payton lighting the league up in...Houston with Andre Johnson or something.

 

[CF74]

However, the quick pass to the RB in the flat is a no brainer. Yet, the Cowboys very rarely use it. Used a not-so-quick pass to Barber in the flat that went for about 40 yds vs. Oak. Never saw it again after that.

It's funny you mention that because I feel the same way. However I've noticed some to Felix get stuffed, and also to Choice. It seems teams don't key on Barber as much because he doesn't quite have that elusive speed you need to account for. Felix and Choice on the other hand typically have a lb spying on them. And again once something fails once Garrett is reluctant to try it again...

 

[Idgit]

When something fails once in a game, such as the screen, Garrett has been reluctant to try it again. That's his MO. Some things are very obvious like the Razorback to Choice, after we got that 66 yarder it was plain to see they wouldn't fall for it again but he tried it anyway. Sometimes he calls plays or doesn't call plays that make you scratch your head. Drives me nuts but it just pops out and I can't ignore it...:bang2:

Without getting into the (ridiculous and tedious) debate about JG's merits as a coordinator, what chance does the guy have, honestly, when our fans are going to criticize him for 1. not running plays that don't work more often and 2. running plays that have been demonstrated to work too often?

If this drives you nuts, then you've got issues.

To the OP: we're running more screens, more effectively, than we have for some time as an organization. I agree that I wouldn't mind seeing more of them because teams like Philly and Minnesota kill people with their screen games and we've got similar personnel. I just don't know that it's appropriate to blame an OC for running other effective plays in place of more screens.

 

[AmericasTeam31]

I don't know how many other teams I've watched where they effectively marched the ball down the field using nothing BUT THE RB. One way or another. And the same back at that.

We don't even keep the same back in the game for more than one play at a time, unless it's the opening drive of the game. There is no rhyme or reason to when Garrett puts in a certain back. They just all kinda rotate in and out, and that's that...

On a side note... Where does MBIII go between the first quarter and the fourth quarter? Does he just chill out in the locker room eating hotdogs or what? He totally disappears during the middle of the game.

One more thing about MBIII: Want to know why our redzone production is so horrible this season? Barber has 16 redzone carries this season!!! With 4TD's. That means 1 out of every 4 rushes in the redzone this season, he's scored a TD... Why not give him the ball like we used to and let him pound it in?

 

[rysko]

its so annoying when people say we are holding back for some reason or another. its just idiocracy. we go out there giving 100 percent every game. i will never understand the theory "oh we're waiting for the saints to unleash our secret weapon larry allen coming out of retirement to lead block for tashard choice who will get 75 percent of the carries" like ***