Settle a cap debate

[Risen Star]

Lol. I live in NJ. There are lots of Cowboys fans here but mostly Giants and Jets fans. We can help knowing some of them.

Sure you're going to run into them but this is the conversation.

Me: You a Cowboys fan?

Him: No.

Me:

 

[Sydla]

They don't need the cap savings until the start of the league year.

Anything you hear now is about teams being under or over the cap is based on the upcoming year, not the one that just happened.

Immediate relief is irrelevant.

But that's the point of their argument. Philly has to make a bunch of moves now to be under the cap come 4PM March 17th. Ertz has been a name that has been suggested could be cut or traded prior to March 17th that would help them get under the cap for 2021. The argument here is the Giants fan is claiming that because trades are in a holding pattern now, if you traded Ertz, the trade wouldn't become official until AFTER 4PM on March 17th meaning the Eagles would not get any cap savings credit for their cap at 4PM when they have to be cap compliant.

I once thought like gk. That the cap savings and trade happened simultaneously at 4PM and therefore a trade made before the start of the league year (despite not being official until after the start of the league year) could help one get cap compliant by the 4PM deadline. But I have read other things now that suggest that's not the case. So now I am puzzled.

 

[fivetwos]

But that's the point of their argument. Philly has to make a bunch of moves now to be under the cap come 4PM March 17th. Ertz has been a name that has been suggested could be cut or traded prior to March 17th that would help them get under the cap for 2021. The argument here is the Giants fan is claiming that because trades are in a holding pattern now, if you traded Ertz, the trade wouldn't become official until AFTER 4PM on March 17th meaning the Eagles would not get any cap savings credit for their cap at 4PM when they have to be cap compliant.

I once thought like gk. That the cap savings and trade happened simultaneously at 4PM and therefore a trade made before the start of the league year (despite not being official until after the start of the league year) could help one get cap compliant by the 4PM deadline. But I have read other things now that suggest that's not the case. So now I am puzzled.

Any moves made now will take effect as of the new league year.

Maybe they have been leaked or whatever, but they won't be official until the league year begins.

Its about getting under the cap for the coming year.

How can a team be hit with a dead money situation for a previous year?

I still can't understand why anyone would think the ramifications of cutting a player would date backward? How?

 

[john van brocklin]

If you trade a player now, you don't get their cap savings benefit now (if they have one) because the trade won't be processed until after the start of the league year.

If you designate someone as a June 1 cut, their cap savings doesn't hit until June 1. In other words, if a team has zero cap space on March 17th and the designate someone a June 1 cut, they can't use that saved cap space to sign someone on March 18th because the space isn't available until June 1.

Raging debate at lunch. I think my Eagles and Giants co-workers are going to come to blows.

Encourage the debate then! Lol

 

[gjkoeppen]

Its still a projection for 2021.

Why would the 2020 cap matter now?

Of course we're talking about the 2021 cap but just like the sites that show a teams cap numbers for 2021 that right now that will count against the 2021 cap that do not include players that will become free agents that have not signed a new contract. With the reduced cap teams are working to get under the cap figure by the start of the new league year and also the same day free agency starts. So any changes to the 2021 cap that happens because of actions before March 17th immediately affect the 2021 cap for that team. for those reasons. The league doesn't wait until after the new league years starts to process trades or cuts because if they did that about half of the teams were over the projected cap for 2021 and would not be able to do anything when free agency started. But teams did do things to affect their cap that immediately changed their cap for 2021.
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[Sydla]

Any moves made now will take effect as of the new league year.

Maybe they have been leaked or whatever, but they won't be official until the league year begins.

Its about getting under the cap for the coming year.

How can a team be hit with a dead money situation for a previous year?

I still can't understand why anyone would think the ramifications of cutting a player would date backward? How?

Not sure what you are referencing by talking about cutting a player and dating the move backwards? Plus not sure where dead money is a key component of the question.

Let's make this simple. Let's say Philly is $4 million over their cap right now and have no other moves to make. The day before March 17th, they trade Ertz and the end result is that trade would save them $5 million on the 2021 cap. So by that they'd have $1 million in cap space putting them in compliance with the league rule that they must be under the cap by 4PM on the 17th. Per CBS Sports, all teams must be under their cap by 4PM on the 17th:

All teams must be under the salary cap prior to 4 p.m. Eastern Time..

However, that trade is unofficial and doesn't become official until the league year starts. Per the same CBS article:

The trading period begins at 4 p.m. Eastern Time.

So technically Philly was not under the cap prior to 4PM on the 17th. They didn't get the cap space recognized until after the league year started. Does the league essentially retroactive the savings to prior to 4PM, thus giving Philly the cushion they needed to be in compliance with the cap rule?

I once thought that was the case but now I have read some things that seem to indicate maybe not.

 

[fivetwos]

Not sure what you are referencing by talking about cutting a player and dating the move backwards? Plus not sure where dead money is a key component of the question.

Let's make this simple. Let's say Philly is $4 million over their cap right now and have no other moves to make. The day before March 17th, they trade Ertz and the end result is that trade would save them $5 million on the 2021 cap. So by that they'd have $1 million in cap space putting them in compliance with the league rule that they must be under the cap by 4PM on the 17th. Per CBS Sports, all teams must be under their cap by 4PM on the 17th:



However, that trade is unofficial and doesn't become official until the league year starts. Per the same CBS article:



So technically Philly was not under the cap prior to 4PM on the 17th. They didn't get the cap space recognized until after the league year started. Does the league essentially retroactive the savings to prior to 4PM, thus giving Philly the cushion they needed to be in compliance with the cap rule?

I once thought that was the case but now I have read some things that seem to indicate maybe not.

They have to always be cap compliant.

They are now. That expires March 17 when salaries change, etc, but they don't need to do a thing to gain space for the cap that goes away March 16.

Anything and everything about any team having to cut players to get under the cap refers to next season.

So, teams needs to be compliant on March 17th for next year and keep it that way until the start of the next league year.

 

[CWR]

If you trade a player now, you don't get their cap savings benefit now (if they have one) because the trade won't be processed until after the start of the league year.

If you designate someone as a June 1 cut, their cap savings doesn't hit until June 1. In other words, if a team has zero cap space on March 17th and the designate someone a June 1 cut, they can't use that saved cap space to sign someone on March 18th because the space isn't available until June 1.

Raging debate at lunch. I think my Eagles and Giants co-workers are going to come to blows.

Let em fight. It's a good way to weed out the trash. Jk

 

[Flamma]

What if you're a Cowboys fan and live and work in a different NFL city? When I first moved here I found a rather large group of Cowboys fans that went to Hooters on Sundays to watch the game. Ot6her than the local packer fans, we were by far the largest group of a team not located in Green Bay.

When I lived in Phoenix there were 2 sports bars next to each other with a big parking lot between them. One was a designated Cowboys sports bar and the other was a designated packer sports bar. The building for the Cowboys bar was twice as big as the packer4s bar. One Sunday I went in the Cowboys bar and it was packed and out of curiosity at half time I walked over to the packers bar who's game was on at the same time and that bar had only about 15 people in it. I asked one of the people there is this how many packer fans come here to watch games and he said usually there are a few more but that the packers have fans all over the world. I laughed and asked if he had ever been next door and he said no and I said right now there's probably 150 people in the Cowboys bar. There's 2 TV's here, 3 if you count the little one in the hallway to the bathroom and next door there are 8 TV's all with the Cowboys game on them so everyone regardless where they were sitting or standing could see the game.
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There's Cowboys fans all over the country. We're like cockroaches, we infest the entire eastern seaboard. There's probably 25 Cowboys fans for every other fan that isn't local..

 

[gjkoeppen]

There's Cowboys fans all over the country. We're like cockroaches, we infest the entire eastern seaboard. There's probably 25 Cowboys fans for every other fan that isn't local..

Where as I've never live on the east coast, I have been in 48 of the 50 states at some time in my life and have meet Cowboys fans in every state I've been in. Hint I've never been to the biggest and littlest states.
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[Flamma]

Where as I've never live on the east coast, I have been in 48 of the 50 states at some time in my life and have meet Cowboys fans in every state I've been in. Hint I've never been to the biggest and littlest states.
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New Jersey. Loaded with Jets, Giants, and Eagles fans. If you haven't been here, don't go out of your way unless you like Taylor Ham or something. You're not missing much.

 

[gjkoeppen]

New Jersey. Loaded with Jets, Giants, and Eagles fans. If you haven't been here, don't go out of your way unless you like Taylor Ham or something. You're not missing much.

Been there. I can honestly say I don't like any place on the east coast except a couple places in the Carolina's, Georgia and Florida
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[Sydla]

They have to always be cap compliant.

They are now. That expires March 17 when salaries change, etc, but they don't need to do a thing to gain space for the cap that goes away March 16.

Anything and everything about any team having to cut players to get under the cap refers to next season.

So, teams needs to be compliant on March 17th for next year and keep it that way until the start of the next league year.

I can't tell if you are purposely missing the point or not. No one is talking about last year's cap. It's all about next year's cap where the teams all have to be under the cap by 4PM on March 17. If the Eagles do absolutely nothing from here on out, they won't be 2021 cap compliant in a week. They have to get under their cap figure BY 4PM ON MARCH 17. Right now if they do nothing, they'd be over by around $24 million or so.

The simple question then is do players traded before they become official (after 4PM on March 17) get counted in the cap calculation that happens BEFORE 4PM on March 17. Or more simply, does trading Ertz today help them get cap compliant by 4PM March 17?

 

[Flamma]

Been there. I can honestly say I don't like any place on the east coast except a couple places in the Carolina's, Georgia and Florida
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I have been to about a dozen states. Those are 3 of them. I liked them all better than NJ.

 

[gjkoeppen]

I have been to about a dozen states. Those are 3 of them. I liked them all better than NJ.

The only two I haven't been to are Alaska and Rhode Island and I don't have any great desire to go to either one. If I did it would only to be able to say that I've been to all 50 states.
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[Flamma]

The only two I haven't been to are Alaska and Rhode Island and I don't have any great desire to go to either one. If I did it would only to be able to say that I've been to all 50 states.
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I don't blame you. Neither seem appealing enough to go out of the way to visit. But I'd love to go to a fortified cabin out 100s of miles in the deep forest of Alaska and live there for a few months. Why? Because I'm odd. Want to see what monsters I can get on video.

 

[gjkoeppen]

I don't blame you. Neither seem appealing enough to go out of the way to visit. But I'd love to go to a fortified cabin out 100s of miles in the deep forest of Alaska and live there for a few months. Why? Because I'm odd. Want to see what monsters I can get on video.

You can have that. If I want to see monsters I'll just lookup my ex.
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[fivetwos]

I can't tell if you are purposely missing the point or not. No one is talking about last year's cap. It's all about next year's cap where the teams all have to be under the cap by 4PM on March 17. If the Eagles do absolutely nothing from here on out, they won't be 2021 cap compliant in a week. They have to get under their cap figure BY 4PM ON MARCH 17. Right now if they do nothing, they'd be over by around $24 million or so.

The simple question then is do players traded before they become official (after 4PM on March 17) get counted in the cap calculation that happens BEFORE 4PM on March 17. Or more simply, does trading Ertz today help them get cap compliant by 4PM March 17?

Yeah I suppose I'm missing the point.

Regardless, any transaction that happens now isn't official until March 17.

Technically every team is under the cap until salaries change on....March 17.

So, settlement day is then.

Philly can agree to trade whoever to whoever and even announce it, but its not official until the league year begins.

Sorry for any frustration!

 

[xwalker]

If you trade a player now, you don't get their cap savings benefit now (if they have one) because the trade won't be processed until after the start of the league year.

If you designate someone as a June 1 cut, their cap savings doesn't hit until June 1. In other words, if a team has zero cap space on March 17th and the designate someone a June 1 cut, they can't use that saved cap space to sign someone on March 18th because the space isn't available until June 1.

Raging debate at lunch. I think my Eagles and Giants co-workers are going to come to blows.

There is not really a cap until the start of the league year. No need for the savings until then.

Correct on June 1st.

 

[Bobhaze]

THE CAP should be worn bill facing forward as it was constructed to provide shade for the eyes. The Catcher is the only one permitted to wear his cap backwards. Cap debate over and Romo looked exceptionally dumb with his cap backwards. Made his Dumbo ears look even Dumboier.

Case closed.