Shanahan, "Control Freaks", and the Bill Walsh coaching tree.

[dwmyers]

I've been thinking about this since I read "Genius" - a book about Bill Walsh. Bill originally was with the Cinncinnati Bengals, as an offensive coordinator under Paul Brown. Bill thought that Paul was going to let him be the head coach after he retired, only to be passed over for Bill Johnson. More so, when Walsh objected, Brown threatened Walsh and said he was going to ruin him for life, so that he'd never get a job in the NFL.

Yes, the kind of behavior that encourages people to trust one another.

Eddie DeBartolo was saddled with a GM, Joe Thomas, who was ruining his football team. So it was really easy to concede to Bill Walsh's demands for total control of the operation, as it gave Eddie an excuse to get rid of Thomas at that time.

Now, which people do we see asking for 100% control of football operations these days?

Holmgren (Walsh disciple).
Shanahan (Walsh disciple).

Deal is, Walsh had a guy named John McVay who acted as a right hand man, helper, what have you. In essence, the guy who did all the dirty work for Walsh and made it less of a one man show. Without McVay, Walsh would have quit a lot sooner, because the work load would have driven him nuts.

So, my thesis: Most of these people wanting 100% control come out of the Walsh tree. Walsh's circumstances were unique, stemming from the way Paul Brown mishandled him. He wanted power because of the way he had been handled.

These other guys want power because that's what their mentor did.

Conclusion: I suspect if Shanahan is sympatico with Jones, he could share power.

David.

 

[ETex]

Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[Thick 'N Hearty]

I just want some of the stuff he's on. Forget the newsletter. Just kidding David.

It is intriguing to think about where Shanahan is coming from. Perhaps he can have more input, a la BP, but let Jerry pull the trigger.

 

[2much2soon]

Obviously, in the past few years, Dallas' weakness hasn't been finding talent in the draft or FA.
Its been getting the most out of that talent on the field.
Shanahan seems like the kind of coach that can push the right buttons and get guys to play.
Maybe he, like Jerry a few years when he brought in Parcells, realizes he can't do it all on his own and will be willing to give up personnel control in the right situation...

 

[Quarterback Coach]

Parcells is a control guy also though...he doesn't have Walsh ties does he?

 

[MONT17]

nice points

 

[vjz]

Oversimplifying, it looks like there are two philosophies:

1. Have a "system", draft players that fit the system. This is the NE, Indy way. Also the philosophy of 49ers during Walsh, Parcells, Shanahan.

2. Draft talented players, regardless of "system". Find a coach who'll get the best of the talent. This is the Cowboys way. Can't think of any other team that works this way, maybe the Raiders, Chargers.

Note that the 'Boys could never have Philosophy 1: Jerry doesn't have a system. He is the GM, loves getting talented players, regardless of system or risk. The exception was with Parcells: note that he brought in his players, put in place *his* system.

Hence, I don't see Shanahan as a fit here, unless Jerry compromises and allows Shanahan to bring his system here.

It also looks like Wade is a good fit for Philosophy 2, unfortunately he doesn't seem to have control over the team.

 

[dwmyers]

Oversimplifying, it looks like there are two philosophies:

1. Have a "system", draft players that fit the system. This is the NE, Indy way. Also the philosophy of 49ers during Walsh, Parcells, Shanahan.

2. Draft talented players, regardless of "system". Find a coach who'll get the best of the talent. This is the Cowboys way. Can't think of any other team that works this way, maybe the Raiders, Chargers.

Note that the 'Boys could never have Philosophy 1: Jerry doesn't have a system. He is the GM, loves getting talented players, regardless of system or risk. The exception was with Parcells: note that he brought in his players, put in place *his* system.

Hence, I don't see Shanahan as a fit here, unless Jerry compromises and allows Shanahan to bring his system here.

It also looks like Wade is a good fit for Philosophy 2, unfortunately he doesn't seem to have control over the team.

No, the Cowboys aren't as chaotic as you suggest. They clearly have had a system over the past couple years.

Speed on the outside, power on the line on offense. The passing game comes from Don Coryell via Norv Turner, now courtesy of Garrett.

The defense has been a Wade Phillips style penetrating (one gap) 3-4. Before, with Parcells, it was a (two) gap 3-4.

It isn't the system, it's getting high strung high maintenance Jerruh Jones style players to buy into the system to the point they just react and don't think about it. What Bill Walsh bled for was execution of the plan.

The question is, do the players we have buy into it all, or it is true, as Trent Dilfer has suggested, that the only way to get the kinds of strong willed players Jerruh picks up to obey, is to have an equally strong willed coach?

 

[dwmyers]

Parcells is a control guy also though...he doesn't have Walsh ties does he?

Parcells has shown the willingness to share power. He doesn't *have* to be the GM, hell, he doesn't have to be the coach either.

David.

 

[BoysFanInAustin]

I've been thinking about this since I read "Genius" - a book about Bill Walsh. Bill originally was with the Cinncinnati Bengals, as an offensive coordinator under Paul Brown. Bill thought that Paul was going to let him be the head coach after he retired, only to be passed over for Bill Johnson. More so, when Walsh objected, Brown threatened Walsh and said he was going to ruin him for life, so that he'd never get a job in the NFL.

Yes, the kind of behavior that encourages people to trust one another.

Eddie DeBartolo was saddled with a GM, Joe Thomas, who was ruining his football team. So it was really easy to concede to Bill Walsh's demands for total control of the operation, as it gave Eddie an excuse to get rid of Thomas at that time.

Now, which people do we see asking for 100% control of football operations these days?

Holmgren (Walsh disciple).
Shanahan (Walsh disciple).

Deal is, Walsh had a guy named John McVay who acted as a right hand man, helper, what have you. In essence, the guy who did all the dirty work for Walsh and made it less of a one man show. Without McVay, Walsh would have quit a lot sooner, because the work load would have driven him nuts.

So, my thesis: Most of these people wanting 100% control come out of the Walsh tree. Walsh's circumstances were unique, stemming from the way Paul Brown mishandled him. He wanted power because of the way he had been handled.

These other guys want power because that's what their mentor did.

Conclusion: I suspect if Shanahan is sympatico with Jones, he could share power.

David.

Shanahan never worked under Bill Walsh. Shanahan worked as the 49ers OC from 1992-94 under George Seifert. However Seifert was from the Walsh coaching tree.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

What' the point of this thread? Do you really think Jerry Jones wouldn't allow Shanahan the players he wants to succeed? For crying outloud, Jerry allowed Bill to start Vinny Testaverde much to his disapproval (and fans disapproval). Jerry allowed Bill to draft two defensive ends in the first round and a third defensive end in the fourth round of the 2005 draft. Jerry Jones allowed Parcells his groceries; it's just that when Bill wasn't yielding results, jerry wanted to get involved much to Bill's dismay which is why he quit. Was Jerry really being so unreasonable then? Yeah I didn't think so either.

All "control freaks" are good coaches because they want the personnel to run their schemes which Jerry has shown that he is more than willing to comply with as long as it's working.

 

[JordanTaber]

Oversimplifying, it looks like there are two philosophies:

1. Have a "system", draft players that fit the system. This is the NE, Indy way. Also the philosophy of 49ers during Walsh, Parcells, Shanahan.

2. Draft talented players, regardless of "system". Find a coach who'll get the best of the talent. This is the Cowboys way. Can't think of any other team that works this way, maybe the Raiders, Chargers.

Note that the 'Boys could never have Philosophy 1: Jerry doesn't have a system. He is the GM, loves getting talented players, regardless of system or risk. The exception was with Parcells: note that he brought in his players, put in place *his* system.

Hence, I don't see Shanahan as a fit here, unless Jerry compromises and allows Shanahan to bring his system here.

It also looks like Wade is a good fit for Philosophy 2, unfortunately he doesn't seem to have control over the team.

Bill Walsh found ways to take advantage of the things his players did well. He was not a "draft them if they fit the system" guy.

The reality is, any coach who tells you "so-and-so" doesn't fit my system is simply a bad coach. There's no such thing as a player who doesn't fit the system. Just a player playing the wrong position in the system.