Shanny and the Skins

[UnoDallas]

Yes, Shanahan has won two Super Bowls, but that was more than a decade ago. Here's his coaching resume since that last Super Bowl:

1999: 6-10 (no playoffs)
2000: 11-5 (lost in first round of playoffs)
2001: 8-8 (no playoffs)
2002: 9-7 (no playoffs)
2003: 10-6 (lost in first round of playoffs)
2004: 10-6 (lost in first round of playoffs)
2005: 13-3 (1-1 in playoffs)
2006: 9-7 (no playoffs)
2007: 7-9 (no playoffs)
2008: 8-8 (no playoffs)

In those final 10 seasons, Shanhan won the AFC West just one time and missed the playoffs 60 percent of the time, including the last three in a row. He compiled a 1-4 record in the playoff and never made the Super Bowl. This is vitally important because odds are overwhelming that the re-tread coach will not recapture past glory.

I am not even worried about him and his so called "coaching skills"

he will be fired before he can make anything happen up there

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Eh, I am much more focused on Saturday's game than the Skins. I actually like Shanny as a coach, I think he's arguably the best *gameplanner* in the game and that can cause issues for us.

But the thing I believe is that for consistent success, you need a good owner who runs the organization well. Some guys like the Rooney's are a bit hands off with the football operations, but they know football and they know the NFL. Atlanta is a perfect example. They had lousy owners and then Arthur Blank took over. I wouldn't say Blank is a football mastermind by any means, but he's very active in the organization and knows how to *run* a football organization.

Now, Jerry is more active than just about any other owner, but I think since 2003 he's done a pretty good job, with some flaws, of running the organization. I actually believe Snyder is more hands off than Jerry when it comes to personnel decisions, but I think he's lousy at running the organization.

And I find it GREAT that the Skins got rid of Cerrato for Bruce Allen. Cerrato was actually a pretty good draft, but the issue was the Skins usually wasted their draft picks on trades for high paid veterans. Allen ran the Bucs drafts from 2004 - 2008 and in that five year span he produced ONE Pro Bowler. I just believe that *if* the Skins had become more of a drafting organization, I'd be much more scared of Cerrato drafting, because he has had some good success there, than the track record of Bruce Allen.

Then, there's a lot of overhauling on offense for Shanny here. The O-Line pretty much has to go, he needs a new QB and probably a new set of WR's as well.

Lastly, when is the last time a coach like Shanny went from one team to another and then had great success with the other? I'd probably say Coughlin and Belichick...maybe Reeves and Parcells...but the odds haven't been great.







YAKUZA

 

[kmp77]

If the Skins find John Elway and Terrell Davis we're in a heap of trouble!

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Yes, Shanahan has won two Super Bowls, but that was more than a decade ago. Here's his coaching resume since that last Super Bowl:

1999: 6-10 (no playoffs)
2000: 11-5 (lost in first round of playoffs)
2001: 8-8 (no playoffs)
2002: 9-7 (no playoffs)
2003: 10-6 (lost in first round of playoffs)
2004: 10-6 (lost in first round of playoffs)
2005: 13-3 (1-1 in playoffs)
2006: 9-7 (no playoffs)
2007: 7-9 (no playoffs)
2008: 8-8 (no playoffs)

In those final 10 seasons, Shanhan won the AFC West just one time and missed the playoffs 60 percent of the time, including the last three in a row. He compiled a 1-4 record in the playoff and never made the Super Bowl. This is vitally important because odds are overwhelming that the re-tread coach will not recapture past glory.

I am not even worried about him and his so called "coaching skills"

he will be fired before he can make anything happen up there

Also note the record with Kubiak no longer running the offense. His last year in Denver was 2005.





YAKUZA

 

[Angus]

But you hit the nail on the head -- all the great coaches you mentioned had great QBs. Yes, I agree with you that Shanny is a good coach, but he'll have to get a great QB before he makes much noise...

...and they're not easy to find at all.

Didn't he get fired at Oakland before he got fired at Denver?

Three years before he gets fired again?

 

[Hoofbite]

But you hit the nail on the head -- all the great coaches you mentioned had great QBs. Yes, I agree with you that Shanny is a good coach, but he'll have to get a great QB before he makes much noise...

...and they're not easy to find at all.

Romos a pretty good QB. He may not be Elway but I'd say he's good enough to make it work.

 

[The Great Number 8]

I remember Commander fans spouting there was no chance to stop everytime they got a "real" coach in Turner, Spurrier, Schottenheimer, Gibbs etc. all colossal busts in Washington.

 

[fan62]

I give TD and Elway some credit for those SB's, but i give more credit to Shanahan's blocking scheme that got him the titles.
Of course, the scheme ended the careers of a couple of players while injuring numerous others.

Of course, after Elway retired, the NFL decided to outlaw the blocking scheme, because of all the injuries!
Shanahan, still did not quit using it for two more seasons. It wasn't being called very much, until all the other teams started sending in film to the NFL.
Finally it was called.
Of course, Shanny hasn't done much since than, but I do give him credit for the new blocking schemes that got him 2 rings.
Count on at least 2 of of our DL going out with knee injuries next year.

 

[Sonny#9]

And I find it GREAT that the Skins got rid of Cerrato for Bruce Allen. Cerrato was actually a pretty good draft, but the issue was the Skins usually wasted their draft picks on trades for high paid veterans. Allen ran the Bucs drafts from 2004 - 2008 and in that five year span he produced ONE Pro Bowler. I just believe that *if* the Skins had become more of a drafting organization, I'd be much more scared of Cerrato drafting, because he has had some good success there, than the track record of Bruce Allen.

You liked Cerrato? Really? First off -- Yes, Cerrato found some decent talent from time-to-time. But then again, even a blind ******** squirrel finds a nut every now and again.

Cerrato was horrible at building a TEAM. The last two offensive lineman he drafted outside of the late rounds were Derrick Dockery in 2003 and Chad Rinehart in 2008. He insisted on signing garbage lineman and pass them off as gold, i.e. Mike Williams. Please tell me, what was the Commanders main problem this year?

He had to do this because of dumb-***** trades like Jason Taylor. His draft record on his own (without Gibbs) is very poor.

2009 -- Brian Orakpo was a no-brainer and we were fortunate he dropped to us. Kevin Barnes didn't do diddly. Cody Glenn, instead of Duke Robinson who carried a 2nd-3rd round grade and A GLARING NEED. Robinson is currently the 2nd-string guard in Carolina, Glenn was cut. Marko Mitchell is the underdog fan favorite who hasn't done anything.

2008 -- Thomas and Davis have shown flashes, but very immature. Kelly -- I want to like, but have serious reservations. Tryon sucks. Rinehart is a backup at best. Horton is anice player, but got beat out by Doughtry before he got hurt. Durant Brooks...

Gibbs was 2004-2007.

2003 -- Taylor Jacobs, Derrick Dockery, Gibran Hamden. No comment necessary

2002 -- Only Betts and Cartwright contributed anything. And they were role players.

2001 -- Schottenheimer ran the draft

2000 -- of all those picks, only Samules turned into a franchise player.

 

[Califan007]

After Elway and Davis were done in Denver, Shanahan won ONE playoff game the next nine years.

Without Elway, Shanahhan only won one playoff game diring his entire coaching career.

Then you guys must REALLY be pessimistic about your chances in the playoffs with Wade "Zero Playoff Wins In His Career" Phillips roaming the sidelines, huh?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Then you guys must REALLY be pessimistic about your chances in the playoffs with Wade "Zero Playoff Wins In His Career" Phillips roaming the sidelines, huh?

You have not been around these boards long enough to think that lol.

On a side note...Wade was not given anywhere near the amount of Power that shanny was given in Denver or now in DC. Heck one would make the argument that wade has not been given enough power seeing as last year he wanted higher fines for players but jerry refused until this offseason.

Another thing to consider, not only does wade not have the power Shanny did and will have, he is not going to be paid quite the same amount as Shanny.

 

[Califan007]

You have not been around these boards long enough to think that lol.

On a side note...Wade was not given anywhere near the amount of Power that shanny was given in Denver or now in DC. Heck one would make the argument that wade has not been given enough power seeing as last year he wanted higher fines for players but jerry refused until this offseason.

Another thing to consider, not only does wade not have the power Shanny did and will have, he is not going to be paid quite the same amount as Shanny.

What difference does the power level make? lol...My post was a joking comment on the thought that Shanahan doesn't impress anyone here because "he never won a Super Bowl without Elway"...I just applied that logic to Wade Phillips never having won a playoff game with anyone lol...the rest of what you wrote is irrelevant to what I posted.

But I'm assuming that you're meaning that, yes, more than a few Cowboys fans are indeed pessimistic about their chances with Wade at the helm? lol...Or did I get that wrong?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

What difference does the power level make? lol...My post was a joking comment on the thought that Shanahan doesn't impress anyone here because "he never won a Super Bowl without Elway"...I just applied that logic to Wade Phillips never having won a playoff game with anyone lol...the rest of what you wrote is irrelevant to what I posted.

But I'm assuming that you're meaning that, yes, more than a few Cowboys fans are indeed pessimistic about their chances with Wade at the helm? lol...Or did I get that wrong?

Until the last few wins...almost everyone and their mama on this board was wanting wade gone and many of the threads/posts were about possible canidates to replace him...so Not a great deal of people here have a great deal of confidence in wade. However with the way the cowboys seem to have regrouped that has change some. Even then I, as well as others, have stated before that it is a catch 22 of sorts that we all want the team to do well in the post season but at the same time it means that wade will be back. Take with that what you want.

Now the reason I brought up the other points is that Shanny has been more responsible for his one win vs wade and his no wins...because Shanny has had more power to bring in players/fa, draft players, hire or fire DCs and so on. So it is a valid point that him having the power, it is hard for anyone to say he does not take more responsiblity (not saying you are I am just making a point) for him only having one Playoff win. Compared to Wade with zero.

Either way it is fun arguing with you and SkinHokieFan...two decent skins fans. Although I don't know how someone could be so bad as to like the skins AND the Hokies.

 

[Califan007]

Either way it is fun arguing with you and SkinHokieFan...two decent skins fans. Although I don't know how someone could be so bad as to like the skins AND the Hokies.

LoL!...

Ah, well I did know quite a few Cowboys fans wanted Wade to get the boot about a month ago, yeah...and if Shanahan should hold more responsibility for the one playoff win in the last 10 years, he should also hold more responsibility for the back-to-back Super Bowl wins as well instead of chalking it up to Elway being on the roster lol (unless he didn't acquire that power until after Elway retired, that is)...

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

LoL!...

Ah, well I did know quite a few Cowboys fans wanted Wade to get the boot about a month ago, yeah...and if Shanahan should hold more responsibility for the one playoff win in the last 10 years, he should also hold more responsibility for the back-to-back Super Bowl wins as well instead of chalking it up to Elway being on the roster lol (unless he didn't acquire that power until after Elway retired, that is)...

To be fair the he only won it with Elway is kind of lame when one considers Elway only won them after T.Davis was there.

So they should say, as some have, that Shanny only won it with Elway and Davis.

Shanny is a good coach. I kind of like him. I just don't think I would want him having that much power. I think it is not a good thing for a HC to have that much power. It did not work for Holmgren and I don't think it will work now for Shanny. But that is just my opinion...does not make it right or wrong.

I think there is enough for a HC to worry about being the HC and also basically being a OC or DC (even if they hire and OC or DC). We all know Shanny is a OC even if they bring in someone else. I think there is enough right there, enough hats so to speak for one guy. I think getting into higher areas on top of that just limits the amount of time a HC can concentrate on being a HC or OC/DC as well.

I think it wears a person down. I think it also keeps them from having some objectivity or perspective in FAs, Drafts and other coaches.

Now they brought in Bruce Allen and you could argue that he is there to help out and so on. But it was my understanding that Bruce really does not have much to do with the draft or FA but is more in the line of someone that deals with the Cap and contracts so I don't know if that is much help.

Again...just opinions but I think Shanny is taking on too much, I think Danny does not have the patience (and history is on my side on this one) if things don't get turned around quickly and I just don't know if the skins will turn this thing around under Snyder.

 

[Califan007]

To be fair the he only won it with Elway is kind of lame when one considers Elway only won them after T.Davis was there.

So they should say, as some have, that Shanny only won it with Elway and Davis.

Shanny is a good coach. I kind of like him. I just don't think I would want him having that much power. I think it is not a good thing for a HC to have that much power. It did not work for Holmgren and I don't think it will work now for Shanny. But that is just my opinion...does not make it right or wrong.

I think there is enough for a HC to worry about being the HC and also basically being a OC or DC (even if they hire and OC or DC). We all know Shanny is a OC even if they bring in someone else. I think there is enough right there, enough hats so to speak for one guy. I think getting into higher areas on top of that just limits the amount of time a HC can concentrate on being a HC or OC/DC as well.

I think it wears a person down. I think it also keeps them from having some objectivity or perspective in FAs, Drafts and other coaches.

Now they brought in Bruce Allen and you could argue that he is there to help out and so on. But it was my understanding that Bruce really does not have much to do with the draft or FA but is more in the line of someone that deals with the Cap and contracts so I don't know if that is much help.

Again...just opinions but I think Shanny is taking on too much, I think Danny does not have the patience (and history is on my side on this one) if things don't get turned around quickly and I just don't know if the skins will turn this thing around under Snyder.

I personally didn't want him to have that much power either...I labeled it the "first mistake of the Bruce Allen era". I hope I'm wrong.

And the only coach I can think of who won Super Bowls with more than one QB is Joe Gibbs lol ...

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I personally didn't want him to have that much power either...I labeled it the "first mistake of the Bruce Allen era". I hope I'm wrong.

And the only coach I can think of who won Super Bowls with more than one QB is Joe Gibbs lol ...

On a cowboys forum you always have to put an asterisks on one of Joe's Superbowl wins due to the strike season. Just a word of advice...I think it is in the guidelines somewhere.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

This whole "power" thing is so overblown.

Look, every coach in the modern NFL has say over his roster. He helps scout the players, he helps in picking them, he helps in drafting them.

This has been going on forever. Hell, college coaches do this with recruiting

The key thing is how well do Shanahan, Allen, and the rest of the scouting staff work together? Allen's job is to look at the big picture, prioritize needs and make sure the operation is going smoothly. Shanahan will work with Allen and the scouts to determine which players best fit his needs to make the team better.

Its not that hard to understand. This is how Andy Reid functions, how Cowher functioned, Bellichick functions, how Parcells functioned and on and on.

What failed the Commanders the past few years was a) having Vinny in the FO who lacked any long term thinking ability and b) Zorn and Vinny having a terrible working relationship and c) Snyder being involved in the player personell decisions.

With Shanahan, Allen, the Goodmans and guys like Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown working together, this is a very good FO structure.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

This whole "power" thing is so overblown.

Look, every coach in the modern NFL has say over his roster. He helps scout the players, he helps in picking them, he helps in drafting them.

This has been going on forever. Hell, college coaches do this with recruiting

The key thing is how well do Shanahan, Allen, and the rest of the scouting staff work together? Allen's job is to look at the big picture, prioritize needs and make sure the operation is going smoothly. Shanahan will work with Allen and the scouts to determine which players best fit his needs to make the team better.

Its not that hard to understand. This is how Andy Reid functions, how Cowher functioned, Bellichick functions, how Parcells functioned and on and on.

What failed the Commanders the past few years was a) having Vinny in the FO who lacked any long term thinking ability and b) Zorn and Vinny having a terrible working relationship and c) Snyder being involved in the player personell decisions.

With Shanahan, Allen, the Goodmans and guys like Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown working together, this is a very good FO structure.

yeah u guys are going places

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

yeah u guys are going places

Yup these are the guys who have recently drafted Cutler, Marshall, Royal, Hillis, Schefler, Clady, Orakpo, Fred Davis, and then coached scrubs like Tatum Bell and turned them into 1500 yard rushers

I am glad you agree