Shawne Merriman in our

[jr40usa]

defense would not be allowed to the things he is doing in San Diego.
I believe Ware in SD would be just as good.

Our defensive schemes suck.

 

[Chuck 54]

defense would not be allowed to the things he is doing in San Diego.
I believe Ware in SD would be just as good.I cannot agree with this

Our defensive schemes suck.

I can agree with this.
When people defend Ware, who doesn't need defending, by saying he is not the impact sacker that Merriman is because of what we ask him to do, I laugh...because if that's the truth, all of our coaches should be fired immediately...Merriman is an impact pass rushing outside LB...maybe the best...If Ware is truly that good and we'd rather run him back in coverage or make sure he has outside contain on pass plays, then someone is insane.

 

[zrinkill]

YAY! Another Merriman thread!

 

[DipChit]

defense would not be allowed to the things he is doing in San Diego.
I believe Ware in SD would be just as good.

Our defensive schemes suck.

So what do you make of Wares comments after the game where when asked about starting pretty good the other day and then falling off he said it was because he thought he was setting up the guy for some different moves later on?

I got an idea for Mr. Ware. On a play where your assignment is to get after the QB, dont think about anything other than the fact that you're gonna get past that SOB in front of you come hell or high water.

 

[ghst187]

I can agree with this.
If Ware is truly that good and we'd rather run him back in coverage or make sure he has outside contain on pass plays, then someone is insane.

ding ding ding....we have a winner!
I think you're on to something.
I think SM has an edge over Ware because of attitude and scheme.
I think if you look at our history of passrushers...we've used a lot of first day picks on passrushers and not one has yet to pan out and produce even 10 sacks in one season. You have to start wondering if its coaching and scheme or the players. I'm of the opinion that some talent has been there and hasn't produced.
If you go back and look at the SB Bronco, Raven, and Cowboy teams....their defenses could generate huge pressure with just a 4 man front and no blitzing. That is why they were successful. By the time the QB set up in a 3 or 5 step drop, the passrush was already almost there.
We've spent 7x top-4-round picks on our front 7 over the last several years plus two huge FA contracts and we can't get much pressure with blitzing 6 of them at a time. That's a problem.
Whenever anyone blitzes even just 5-6 people at us, there's almost always one guy running untouched towards our QB. We blitz 7-8 and half of those times the QB still has time to set up and go through progressions. IMO, with our personnel, I thing that 95% of the time we blitz, we should force the QB to either take a sack, throw it away, rush it, or make a bad decision. Our blitzes should create some confusion and someone should be running free into the backfield a lot of the time. But that never seems to happen.
That's scheme. It's apparently too simple and opposing OLs pick up our blitzes to easily. And making our blitzes harder to figure out was the main reason we went to the 3-4. However, at least so far it looks exactly like the same dilemma we had in the 4-3, now we just have exponentially better players running it....but same problems of still not generating pressure for 4 quarters.
Perhaps our best passrushers...Glover and Haley, were so because they were developed elsewhere and imported here, after they were impressionable.
:bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2:
If Ware doesn't get 10 this year and our D isn't in the top 10...then our defensive coaching sucks and needs replaced. I shudder to think what Greg Williams, Jim Jones, Billick would do if they had our defense. Its really hard to find very many defensive rosters that compare to ours player by player.

 

[Cbz40]

ding ding ding....we have a winner!
I think you're on to something.
I think SM has an edge over Ware because of attitude and scheme.
I think if you look at our history of passrushers...we've used a lot of first day picks on passrushers and not one has yet to pan out and produce even 10 sacks in one season. You have to start wondering if its coaching and scheme or the players. I'm of the opinion that some talent has been there and hasn't produced.
If you go back and look at the SB Bronco, Raven, and Cowboy teams....their defenses could generate huge pressure with just a 4 man front and no blitzing. That is why they were successful. By the time the QB set up in a 3 or 5 step drop, the passrush was already almost there.
We've spent 7x top-4-round picks on our front 7 over the last several years plus two huge FA contracts and we can't get much pressure with blitzing 6 of them at a time. That's a problem.
Whenever anyone blitzes even just 5-6 people at us, there's almost always one guy running untouched towards our QB. We blitz 7-8 and half of those times the QB still has time to set up and go through progressions. IMO, with our personnel, I thing that 95% of the time we blitz, we should force the QB to either take a sack, throw it away, rush it, or make a bad decision. Our blitzes should create some confusion and someone should be running free into the backfield a lot of the time. But that never seems to happen.
That's scheme. It's apparently too simple and opposing OLs pick up our blitzes to easily. And making our blitzes harder to figure out was the main reason we went to the 3-4. However, at least so far it looks exactly like the same dilemma we had in the 4-3, now we just have exponentially better players running it....but same problems of still not generating pressure for 4 quarters.
Perhaps our best passrushers...Glover and Haley, were so because they were developed elsewhere and imported here, after they were impressionable.
:bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2:
If Ware doesn't get 10 this year and our D isn't in the top 10...then our defensive coaching sucks and needs replaced. I shudder to think what Greg Williams, Jim Jones, Billick would do if they had our defense. Its really hard to find very many defensive rosters that compare to ours player by player.

 

[DipChit]

Or maybe a lot of the players are just over-rated... especially by the fans. Like thats not possible? Hell some would still have QC as their QB if it were up to them because they thought he had "something" and just needed more time.

I've been aggrevated as heck too about our blitzing over the years. The way so many times when we send a guy whose sole purpose is to get to the QB untouched.. then I see him engage with, or get picked off by, someone.

Obviously it's not "coached" that way because if a corner or a safety is picked off before he gets there he dang well shouldnt have bothered because he'd be alot more useful at that point if he were back in the secondary afterall.

You think the coaches dont understand these basic principles? Even if they otherwise wouldnt, they dont have to look far because they see their own QB get drilled by that sort of thing. All they'd have to say is "Gee that worked pretty good.. we should do it that way from time to time".

 

[doomsday81]

defense would not be allowed to the things he is doing in San Diego.
I believe Ware in SD would be just as good.

Our defensive schemes suck.

Merriman is an animal. Ware is a very good player but stop trying to convince yourself the Cowboys took the better player. They didn't. End of story.

 

[zrinkill]

It is gonna be so sweet when Ware proves these Merriman groupies wrong.

 

[Verdict]

The jury is still out on who will be the better player, Merriman, or Ware. Based on past production, most people would agree that Merriman is the better player. That bothers me since we had the option of drafting him and passed. This isn't like passing on Steven Jackson, where we passed on a player and got picks to do so. This was not even like the decision to pass on Randy Moss who allegedly had character "issues" (It looks like he did to some degree). This was strictly a talent evaluation decision.

I sure hope that Ware ultimately turns out to be a better player. It won't be the end of the world if Merriman is slightly better, but right now he seems to be significantly better based solely on pass rushing the QB, which is why we drafted Ware in the first place.

 

[ddh33]

So is this turning into a question of Ware versus Merriman? Is this a question about whether or not Ware can rush the passer?

Comparing Ware to Merriman is legit, but it's too difficult to do. Merriman plays in a different system with different surrounding talent. The bottom line is that most people had Ware as a higher rated player in that draft. When it came time to choose, Parcells took Ware and immediately compared him to LT.

Now that we have seen Ware for over a year, I thought all of us were aware of what he could do. I have no question about his ability to get to a QB and create pressure. I'm surprised that anyone else might.

I'm more bothered by how Ware seems to have so little help when it comes to getting to the QB. I'm more bothered by seeing him cover the slot and people coming out of the backfield. Honestly, I'm bothered that he's already getting lumped into the Roy Williams/Julius Jones group of underappreciated players. Just because a guy isn't allowed to shine (for whatever reason) doesn't mean he isn't a very good player.

My hunch is that if you put Roy Williams in the Steelers defense, he would be a defensive player of the year candidate. I think if you put a healthy Julius Jones in a proven system, he would be a back who got a ton of love. If you put Demarcus Ware in San Diego, he wuold be getting all of this credit too.

So why don't these guys shine more here? I truly don't think I'm overrating these players - at least, not by much.

Is it possible that some of the expectations here are unreasonable? That Ware sucks if he doesn't get three sacks in a game? That Newman sucks if he doesn't get three picks a game? That julius sucks if he doesn't get 200 yards a game? That Roy sucks if he isn't all-world all the time?

 

[cowboyuptx]

So is this turning into a question of Ware versus Merriman? Is this a question about whether or not Ware can rush the passer?

Comparing Ware to Merriman is legit, but it's too difficult to do. Merriman plays in a different system with different surrounding talent. The bottom line is that most people had Ware as a higher rated player in that draft. When it came time to choose, Parcells took Ware and immediately compared him to LT.

Now that we have seen Ware for over a year, I thought all of us were aware of what he could do. I have no question about his ability to get to a QB and create pressure. I'm surprised that anyone else might.

I'm more bothered by how Ware seems to have so little help when it comes to getting to the QB. I'm more bothered by seeing him cover the slot and people coming out of the backfield. Honestly, I'm bothered that he's already getting lumped into the Roy Williams/Julius Jones group of underappreciated players. Just because a guy isn't allowed to shine (for whatever reason) doesn't mean he isn't a very good player.

My hunch is that if you put Roy Williams in the Steelers defense, he would be a defensive player of the year candidate. I think if you put a healthy Julius Jones in a proven system, he would be a back who got a ton of love. If you put Demarcus Ware in San Diego, he wuold be getting all of this credit too.

So why don't these guys shine more here? I truly don't think I'm overrating these players - at least, not by much.

Is it possible that some of the expectations here are unreasonable? That Ware sucks if he doesn't get three sacks in a game? That Newman sucks if he doesn't get three picks a game? That julius sucks if he doesn't get 200 yards a game? That Roy sucks if he isn't all-world all the time?

Dude, that was excellent!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

It is gonna be so sweet when Ware proves these Merriman groupies wrong.

I just want them to shut-up and appreciate the talent that is Ware

 

[Clove]

Merriman is special, but so is Ware. Ware, for the first time since he's been drafted, looked like a pure linebacker Sunday... Now if we can play some sucky teams he can get his stats up...

 

[ZeroClub]

I am glad the Cowboys drafted Ware. He's a great talent, fun to watch, easy to cheer for.

In retrospect, I think a possible advantage with Merriman is that he is better than Ware to move to Ellis's LB position. If Merriman were moved there, then the Cowboys would have been more comfortable with drafting someone like Manny Lawson (instead of Carpenter).

Merriman + Lawson would seem like a powerful 1-2 punch....

That said, again, I am pleased to have the opportunity to cheer for Ware and watch him develop.

 

[802dave]

Ware will be a great player. Merriman is an animal.

The Cowboys played one of the strongest teams in the league last week in Jacksonville and they fell behind due to too many mistakes. Playing catchup makes it difficult to look like a group of great players! It's extremely difficult in today's NFL to regularly recover from errors and deficits.

I think we're going to see much improved perfomances this week from several of the players mentioned in this thread! It can't come at a better time either! Smoke the Skins!!!

 

[dbair1967]

So what do you make of Wares comments after the game where when asked about starting pretty good the other day and then falling off he said it was because he thought he was setting up the guy for some different moves later on?

I got an idea for Mr. Ware. On a play where your assignment is to get after the QB, dont think about anything other than the fact that you're gonna get past that SOB in front of you come hell or high water.

6+ years of absolute futile efforts in trying to get pressure on other teams QB's, make negative plays and force turnovers says otherwise

like the others said...its the scheme..they are coached to be passive and sit back on their heals

David

 

[CrazyCowboy]

I don't believe the Chargers will trade him to us......for Ware or anyone else

 

[ManicDepressiveMan]

I still think Merriman is the better player, but I'd kill for an attack scheme defense in Dallas. A scheme to finally take advantage of the skills of a Ware or Roy Williams.

 

[tyke1doe]

If Ware is truly that good and we'd rather run him back in coverage or make sure he has outside contain on pass plays, then someone is insane.

Or stupid.

Otherwise ...