Shula: Give Pats asterisk if they go 16-0

[superpunk]

It's easy to dismiss this as simply sour grapes.

But, the Pats were CAUGHT cheating this year. Whether that contributed to their record cannot be determined. But, no matter how you slice it, their record this season is marred by the fact that they cheated in (at least) their first game. If you put yourself in Shula's shoes, as a guy who spent his life working toward his achievements, I'm sure you can see where he'd be slightly upset that his record was broken by a team that cheated - and I'm sure you can see why he would want that fact memorialized.

 

[Doomsday]

LOL

Bitter?

and worried. The writing is on the wall and he knows it.

Spygate has more to do with previous teams then this year's team in my opinion.

 

[Doomsday101]

It's easy to dismiss this as simply sour grapes.

But, the Pats were CAUGHT cheating this year. Whether that contributed to their record cannot be determined. But, no matter how you slice it, their record this season is marred by the fact that they cheated in (at least) their first game. If you put yourself in Shula's shoes, as a guy who spent his life working toward his achievements, I'm sure you can see where he'd be slightly upset that his record was broken by a team that cheated - and I'm sure you can see why he would want that fact memorialized.

I could understand past season being looked but this season? The story broke after week 1 and since then the Pats have continued to win and big most of the time while under the eye of the NFL. Dolphins get like this every year a team challenges their perfect mark.

 

[tunahelper]

I doubt the 72 dolphins would even score against this Patriots team?

What a joke!

 

[superpunk]

I could understand past season being looked but this season? The story broke after week 1 and since then the Pats have continued to win and big most of the time while under the eye of the NFL. Dolphins get like this every year a team challenges their perfect mark.

They were caught cheating in a game this year.

They were forced to turn over all their cheating materials this year.

Their head coach and franchise was fined, and stripped of a first round draft pick this year.

So yeah - I can see why Don Shula would want it noted for posterity that the Patriots were caught, fined, and punished for cheating in the same year that they went undefeated. (if they do) The issue is not whether cheating helped them at all. The issue is that it happened in a game THIS YEAR, and that shouldn't be forgotten

 

[Mavs Man]

I'll be very surprised if they go 16-0. It is just too hard to do. Every team they play from here on out will play them as if it's the Super Bowl. They want to be the team that gives the Pats their first loss.

 

[Doomsday101]

They were caught cheating in a game this year.

They were forced to turn over all their cheating materials this year.

Their head coach and franchise was fined, and stripped of a first round draft pick this year.

So yeah - I can see why Don Shula would want it noted for posterity that the Patriots were caught, fined, and punished for cheating in the same year that they went undefeated. (if they do) The issue is not whether cheating helped them at all. The issue is that it happened in a game THIS YEAR, and that shouldn't be forgotten

You are right in week 1 against the Jets so are you telling me that from week 2 to now they have continued? I think if someone wants to question past games then I can see their point if we are talking this season sorry no I don't see it.

 

[superpunk]

You are right in week 1 against the Jets so are you telling me that from week 2 to now they have continued? I think if someone wants to question past games then I can see their point if we are talking this season sorry no I don't see it.

Is this the part of the conversation where you stop reading what I write, read just the first sentence, and then harp on some nonsensical red herring over and over again?

If so, count me out. I've been through that many times before.

If not - they cheated this year. All Shula is saying is that it should be noted that they cheated, and were caught cheating, in the year that they (maybe) went 16-0. He is not saying that they are still cheating, or that the cheating even affected anything. He even said it's a shame they got caught, because Brady is playing at a level where that sort of conduct is completely unnecessary.

What he is saying is, if they go undefeated, it should be noted that they were caught cheating, fined, and stripped of draft picks in the same year that they went undefeated.

Then, let the people do with that information what they will.

 

[Chuck 54]

I think it's likely they go 16-0, but that really means nothing in today's game and won't match Miami. They have to also sweep through the playoffs and the SB....if they do that, which would actually make them 19-0, screw the asterisk...they deserve the record.

Coaches have always cheated a little here and there with spies and scouts and in the old days getting guys off other rosters. The players who play the game will have spilt their own blood and endured injuries and played at an unbelievably high level if they actually win the SB and go 19-0.

You can hate Bellicheat all you want, but the players will not deserve to have an asterisk by their 19-0 record, especially since this is being watched so closely throughout the final 2/3rds of the season. Right now I'm sure NE probably can get away with less than any other team in the league.

I don't think they'll go 19-0, but if they do, I'm not going to discredit the players by calling for an asterisk.

 

[Doomsday101]

Is this the part of the conversation where you stop reading what I write and just harp on some nonsensical red herring over and over again?

If so, count me out.

If not - they cheated this year. All Shula is saying is that it should be noted that they cheated, and were caught cheating, in the year that they (maybe) went 16-0. He is not saying that they are still cheating, or that the cheating even affected anything. He even said it's a shame they got caught, because Brady is playing at a level where that sort of conduct is completely unnecessary. What he is saying is, if they go undefeated, it should be noted that they were caught cheating, fined, and stripped of draft picks in the same year that they went undefeated.

Then, let the people do with that information what they will.

I read it the entire thing I get what he is saying. Pats taped signals to use in future games by all accounts. So the info they used in the Jets game was meaningless but yes they did wrong and was fined for it.

Will any of this take away from the Pats should they pull of the perfect season? in my opinion no it would have been a great feat so Shula and anyone else can put what ever they want next to the mark but to go 16 weeks (not 14) and win it all in my view is a bigger accomplishment.

Having said that I hope the Pats don't get it, because I would love to see the Cowboys prevent them from getting it with a re-match in the SB but that is another story.

 

[CowboyChris]

what gets me the most, is why would they have to cheat against the Jets of all teams. thats really dumb on their part. and i agree with Shula.

 

[percyhoward]

Shula's just telling it like it is.

 

[Doomsday101]

and Jerry Jones take on it?

Jerry was kind enough to chat with reporters for about 40 minutes today. He spent a decent amount of that time answering questions about the Spygate, an issue that a brave dude from the NFL Network kept hammering.

Understand that Jerry and New England owner Robert Kraft are tight. They've banded together as big-money, business-savvy owners on a lot of issues over the years. Kraft and his wife will join the Joneses at dinner tomorrow night to celebrate Jerry's birthday.
Jerry is about to replace Kraft as chairman of the NFL Network Committee, which is why I called the reporter brave. He's basically grilling his bosses on a controversial issue for the world to see.

Jerry interrupted the reporter's first Spygate question to say that the issue doesn't pop up in his mind when he thinks about the Patriots. OK, but how much of a competitive edge did those hidden cameras give the Pats as they built a dynasty?
"I don't think it impacted their success or caused them to have more success because of the things that were alleged," Jerry said. "I don't think it impacted that at all."
Wait a second. Alleged? They were caught cheating.

"But I'm just saying that we don't know then," Jerry said. "That would have to be alleged as far as those years. Would you agree with that? Having said that, I don’t think it would have impacted those teams.

"The first year I was on the competition committee, Don Shula, [Marty] Schottenheimer, [Tom] Flores, those were the guys that were on the competition committee. When I met with them in the spring, they said, 'Jerry, did you know that everybody in the league knew where y'all were going to run and whether you were going to pass or run.' We won the Super Bowl. And they said, 'Nobody could stop you, knowing where you were going and when you were going there. We had your signals from Day 1 going from the sidelines.'

"My point is I do not think that that impacted them winning over an opponent if that were the case, which it may have been advanced, but I don’t know that to be the case at all.

"The facts are I know how much the integrity is of Bob and his family. I know firsthand what it is. I've seen it operate. I've seen what character and integrity is. I think it does impact throughout the organization there."

 

[joseephuss]

You are right in week 1 against the Jets so are you telling me that from week 2 to now they have continued? I think if someone wants to question past games then I can see their point if we are talking this season sorry no I don't see it.

I doubt they have continued cheating, but the type of cheating they have done could help them for a long time. They stock piled defensive calls for years from different teams and coaches. That is information they can still put to good use. I bet every coach that has faced the Pats this year tries to change up their defensive signals, but sometimes you can't change every single call or signal that you installed during training camp.

 

[Doomsday101]

I doubt they have continued cheating, but the type of cheating they have done could help them for a long time. They stock piled defensive calls for years from different teams and coaches. That is information they can still put to good use. I bet every coach that has faced the Pats this year tries to change up their defensive signals, but sometimes you can't change every single call or signal that you installed during training camp.

I have heard some coaches say that they did not feel it gave them much of an edge at all. Jimmy Johnson being one of them. I'm not saying what they did was right and I agree the punishment should have been stronger just based on the principals but do I think any great edge was attained? NO. I have seen teams do worse like the skins sending an assistant to spy on Dallas during practice during George Allen’s time in Washington. I think the Pats are a good team and that is why they have won games

 

[joseephuss]

I have heard some coaches say that they did not feel it gave them much of an edge at all. Jimmy Johnson being one of them. I'm not saying what they did was right and I agree the punishment should have been stronger just based on the principals but do I think any great edge was attained? NO. I have seen teams do worse like the skins sending an assistant to spy on Dallas during practice during George Allen’s time in Washington. I think the Pats are a good team and that is why they have won games

I think the Pats are a good team and well run organization. That above all else is what has made them successful.

I too believe that the type of cheating they did can give them an advantage. If it didn't, then why do it in the past? If it didn't, then why did they make a rule to forbid it? If it didn't, then why did Belichek blatantly ignore said rule and continue to do it this season?

I have heard other coaches and players say yes it can be advantageous to have that kind of information. It still takes good players to put that type of inside information to good use. If you told Marcellus Wiley that if the QB yells Blue Beetle that it means the QB will take a 7 step drop and the tackle is going to block him one on one, I bet Wiley still doesn't get the sack. The Pats have better and smarter players than Wiley and could use that type of info to their advantage from time to time. Not every single play or every single game, but sometimes it only takes one or two plays a game to make a difference.

Nothing is definitive as to how much their spying has helped them, but they definitly placed a cloud over themselves with their actions.

 

[khiladi]

They got caught cheating vs. the Jets, not in their SBs. Its quite a stretch to play judge and jury on that level without proof. Alrthough we are all sure it happened.

Not really, because tapes were burned, meaning that the suspicions and the stretch are quite justified...

 

[Royal Laegotti]

Give it up Shula, it ain't gonna happen. If Barry Bonds and Mark Mcguire ain't gettin' a asterisk then the Pats ain't.

 

[khiladi]

It still takes good players to put that type of inside information to good use. If you told Marcellus Wiley that if the QB yells Blue Beetle that it means the QB will take a 7 step drop and the tackle is going to block him one on one, I bet Wiley still doesn't get the sack.

Uhh.. Marcellus Wiley was a pro-bowl player when he played for Wade Phillips in Buffalo, meaning the SCHEME, i.e. the PLAY-CALLING can make a huge difference in the game, as well as 'execution'... when he came here with Mike Zimmer, he sucked rotten eggs...

Look at the San Diego defense this year as opposed to last year...

 

[khiladi]

Give it up Shula, it ain't gonna happen. If Barry Bonds and Mark Mcguire ain't gettin' a asterisk then the Pats ain't.

What are you talking about? Barry Bonds has been getting an asterisk ever since the scandal He is boo'ed every time he goes up to bat, and his home-run record is criticized by every single person in the media. All the media does about the Patriots is defend them, and give them the benefit of the doubt...