So Bruce Arians Didn't Retire

[Hostile]

I can't help but wonder how our fans would be reacting if Jerry did something like Art Rooney II did in this case. He over rode his GM, and Head Coach, against the wishes of his star QB, and announced the man's retirement, instead of saying that he was not going to be retained.

I have been under the impression that owners have no input on rosters and staff if there is a GM in place. I was under the impression that moves like this do not happen anywhere but in Dallas. They especially don't happen in Pittsburgh which is one of the landmark franchises.

What about what is happening in Indianapolis where the owner isn't even talking to the media to stir up stuff, he's using Twitter? Making decisions that should be for his GM, except that he hasn't got one yet, but did hire a Head Coach without settling on a GM. It never happens.

Or what is happening in Kansas City where the Head Coach was fired, they say for cause and so he won't be paid. Meanwhile the entire organization is walking on egg shells thinking their phones and even cell phones are bugged by Scott Pioli, their GM.

We're a lot more professionally run than a lit of disgruntled fans care to admit.

 

[casmith07]

This thread will go nowhere fast

 

[bigE79]

This thread will go nowhere fast

Sad but true

 

[burmafrd]

the only franchize worse run then ours was the Raiders as long as Walking Dead Man was alive. Most of the haters will now claim we are the worst.

 

[Dough Boy]

The Pittsburgh-Gate is shocking. They are the anti-ran Cowboys. They are the owners that hire a GM and never make any decisions. Or, so we were told...

 

[batman36]

I can't help but wonder how our fans would be reacting if Jerry did something like Art Rooney II did in this case. He over rode his GM, and Head Coach, against the wishes of his star QB, and announced the man's retirement, instead of saying that he was not going to be retained.

I have been under the impression that owners have no input on rosters and staff if there is a GM in place. I was under the impression that moves like this do not happen anywhere but in Dallas. They especially don't happen in Pittsburgh which is one of the landmark franchises.

What about what is happening in Indianapolis where the owner isn't even talking to the media to stir up stuff, he's using Twitter? Making decisions that should be for his GM, except that he hasn't got one yet, but did hire a Head Coach without settling on a GM. It never happens.
Or what is happening in Kansas City where the Head Coach was fired, they say for cause and so he won't be paid. Meanwhile the entire organization is walking on egg shells thinking their phones and even cell phones are bugged by Scott Pioli, their GM.

We're a lot more professionally run than a lit of disgruntled fans care to admit.

I don't recall the name of the new GM in Indy, but he was hired away from Philadelphia a few weeks back. Grigson(maybe?). He reportedly had a huge say in hiring Chuck Pagano. But I get what you are saying. This could be a short thread.

 

[Dodger12]

It's almost comical the lengths people will go to defend Jerry as if the way he's handles this team is the norm. When the Steelers spend an entire draft picking back-ups or have a sideline conference with a coach during the game, come see me.

 

[hutch1254]

It's true. We're are not the only team with an owner that gives the appearance of doing, for lack of a better word, crazy things or actions. I think the difference though, like most things for our team, the power of the Star draws the attention.

With the Pittsburgh situation I think it will get overlooked greatly because from what I've been reading and hearing from Steelers fans that I know most are glad that Arians is gone and they really don't care how it was done. They want the power run game and stiff defense back.

Interesting that Little Ben will be having a "sit down" with Rooney about the direction of the team next week. Rooney is going to tell him to shutup and mind his off the field business.

 

[Hostile]

It's almost comical the lengths people will go to defend Jerry as if the way he's handles this team is the norm. When the Steelers spend an entire draft picking back-ups or have a sideline conference with a coach during the game, come see me.

I am not defending Jerry. Nowhere did I applaud a move he made. This is about your chance, and others, to get educated on the actual inner workings of NFL franchises. For years now fans on this site have heralded Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, and New England and recently Green Bay as professionally run franchises while we are a circus.

One myth had other Owners letting their football men handle football affairs. Rooney in particular was heralded. I am a huge Kevin Colbert fan. Ozzie Newsome may be the only GM I like better. Where is Colbert in this Arians deal? This was his job right? That has been the chorus here.

Did you read the reports that Ozzie Newsome was being pressured to retire in Baltimore so that the Ravens could promote Eric DeCosta and not lose him to another team?

I was lambasted for daring to say that NFL owners do have input on football matters. That GMs do not have autonomy. That the owners have the final say. Well...was I right? I gave you 2 examples. I can give a lot more.

I called the Office of GM a title. I said that Tom Ciskowski is our Assistant Director of Player Personnel and that he acts in the same capacity as Ozzie Newsome, just with a different title. I further cited Scott Pioli's time with that exact title in New England where Belichick also has the title of GM.

Who was right? The answer is as plain as a cloudless day. Ya'll give Jerry way too much power and I didn't.

:laugh2:

I love irony.

 

[Dodger12]

I am not defending Jerry. Nowhere did I applaud a move he made. This is about your chance, and others, to get educated on the actual inner workings of NFL franchises.

For years now fans on this site have heralded Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, and New England and recently Green Bay as professionally run franchises while we are a circus.

I was lambasted for daring to say that NFL owners do have input on football matters. That GMs do not have autonomy. That the owners have the final say. Well...was I right? I gave you 2 examples. I can give a lot more.

Stop exhagerating your previous position and acting like a martyr because you didn’t get lambasted for anything of the sort. You got crucified because you said some dumb things in defense of Jerry (and I mean real dumb), namely that a GM has no bearing on winning or losing on the field. And now you want to educate me and others on the inner workings of the NFL? Please…….the situation in Pittsburg is no different than the one we had with Stewart and I don’t recall too many people getting on Jerry for forcing Wade’s hand.

The owner signs the checks and he should have final say and yes, he can do what he wants because he owns the team but that doesn’t make it right. Show me where Kraft or Rooney or Irsay have a conference with the HC on the field during a game. Show me what quality GM dedicates an entire draft to drafting back-up players?

Jerry’s a horrendous GM and if he didn’t own the team, he’d be fired. It’s really that simple. And I'm not quite sure why you brought up the Ravens situation with DeCosta but you were throwing out some buckshot hoping something would hit.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

People lambast Jerry for some things and don't want to admit, even for a second, that dumb things happen elsewhere. When provided the evidence, they say, "How much do we suck when we have to be compared to X, Y, and Z doing stupid and/or inexplicable things."

Exhibits A - AAZ: This thread.

 

[Hostile]

Stop exhagerating your previous position and acting like a martyr because you didn’t get lambasted for anything of the sort. You got crucified because you said some dumb things in defense of Jerry (and I mean real dumb), namely that a GM has no bearing on winning or losing on the field. And now you want to educate me and others on the inner workings of the NFL? Please…….the situation in Pittsburg is no different than the one we had with Stewart and I don’t recall too many people getting on Jerry for forcing Wade’s hand.

The owner signs the checks and he should have final say and yes, he can do what he wants because he owns the team but that doesn’t make it right. Show me where Kraft or Rooney or Irsay have a conference with the HC on the field during a game. Show me what quality GM dedicates an entire draft to drafting back-up players?

Jerry’s a horrendous GM and if he didn’t own the team, he’d be fired. It’s really that simple. And I'm not quite sure why you brought up the Ravens situation with DeCosta but you were throwing out some buckshot hoping something would hit.

Blah, blah, blah. More spin. I have said NFL Owners are heavily involved in the final word on their teams and a bunch of people denied it. I have said GM is nothing but a title and a bunch of people denied it. I have stated that Tom Ciskowski operates more as our GM than Jerry does, and a bunch of people denied it. I have stated that other NFL teams have great GMs yet still have tumultuous circumstances happening, and a bunch of people denied it.

Wake up or don't. That choice is yours and theirs.

 

[visionary]

I can't help but wonder how our fans would be reacting if Jerry did something like Art Rooney II did in this case. He over rode his GM, and Head Coach, against the wishes of his star QB, and announced the man's retirement, instead of saying that he was not going to be retained.

I have been under the impression that owners have no input on rosters and staff if there is a GM in place. I was under the impression that moves like this do not happen anywhere but in Dallas. They especially don't happen in Pittsburgh which is one of the landmark franchises.

What about what is happening in Indianapolis where the owner isn't even talking to the media to stir up stuff, he's using Twitter? Making decisions that should be for his GM, except that he hasn't got one yet, but did hire a Head Coach without settling on a GM. It never happens.

Or what is happening in Kansas City where the Head Coach was fired, they say for cause and so he won't be paid. Meanwhile the entire organization is walking on egg shells thinking their phones and even cell phones are bugged by Scott Pioli, their GM.

We're a lot more professionally run than a lit of disgruntled fans care to admit.

:laugh2:


wait, i was told indianapolis hired a HC before hiring a GM
was that wrong?

 

[visionary]

This thread will go nowhere fast

this thread will go exactly where the indignant misinformed thread about "indianapolis hired a HC without hiring a GM" thread went



when will the excuse-making stop?

 

[TellerMorrow34]

It's almost comical the lengths people will go to defend Jerry as if the way he's handles this team is the norm. When the Steelers spend an entire draft picking back-ups or have a sideline conference with a coach during the game, come see me.

I'm just curious what the excuse would be when those things happen? People have repeatedly said that the things he mentioned already don't happen anywhere else, and said thing to this exact effect. Come see me when they do. Now he's pointed them out and the tune is changed to some other criteria?

Look I get not liking Jerry and what he does. He pisses me off a lot. But these claims were made, of course not necassarily by you. I don't recall your member name so I honestly don't know how often you've been in the endless Jerry threads. But those claims Hos is providing about those things never happening anywhere but Dallas have been made, and made numerous times. Now that he's showing prime examples of them happening elsewhere, including in Pittsburgh which is always one of the franchise people point out as "This would never happen there" the tune is gonna change again.


Endless cycle on both sides really.

 

[Hostile]

I'm just curious what the excuse would be when those things happen? People have repeatedly said that the things he mentioned already don't happen anywhere else, and said thing to this exact effect. Come see me when they do. Now he's pointed them out and the tune is changed to some other criteria?

Look I get not liking Jerry and what he does. He pisses me off a lot. But these claims were made, of course not necassarily by you. I don't recall your member name so I honestly don't know how often you've been in the endless Jerry threads. But those claims Hos is providing about those things never happening anywhere but Dallas have been made, and made numerous times. Now that he's showing prime examples of them happening elsewhere, including in Pittsburgh which is always one of the franchise people point out as "This would never happen there" the tune is gonna change again.


Endless cycle on both sides really.

Exactly. The new spin will be what is posted above that I got it wrong about the HC before the GM. That will be their only focus. I spoke rashly about one topic. Big damned deal. That is nothing but a strawman to try and draw attention away from the fact that NFL owners DO get heavily involved in the personnel decisions of their team. It is NOT just Al Davis, Mike Brown, and Jerry Jones.

These guys flat out said other NFL owners let their GMs handle the football business and several teams have been heralded by fans on this forum as examples of professionalism. My how the tune has changed. 2 years ago we should have hired Bill Polian away from Indianapolis. He gets fired by Indy and how has the story changed? Uh, he's no good. For years he was pimped as the prototypical GM type that we need. Same with Scott Pioli who is Parcells son-in-law and maybe could come here with Parcells and fix everything.

Turns out this "blind homer" ain't the one who needs a seeing eye dog.

 

[Hostile]

[youtube]tc677cJndLc[/youtube]

 

[Dodger12]

Blah, blah, blah. More spin. I have said NFL Owners are heavily involved in the final word on their teams and a bunch of people denied it. I have said GM is nothing but a title and a bunch of people denied it. I have stated that Tom Ciskowski operates more as our GM than Jerry does, and a bunch of people denied it. I have stated that other NFL teams have great GMs yet still have tumultuous circumstances happening, and a bunch of people denied it.

Wake up or don't. That choice is yours and theirs.

Blah, blah, blah back at you because you’ve been giving a ton BS here recently. This may not mean a whole lot to you, but I have a ton of respect for you and others here even though I disagree with what you have to say. But you’re moving the goal post and then claiming you’re right about something that was never said. Not many people will deny that owners have the final say; it’s their team and they most certainly can have the final say in how their organization is run and the decisions that affect their organization.

If you want to sell to the masses that Ciskowski operates more as a GM than Jerry, then have at it but I’m not buying it and it cheapens not only your argument, but your credibility. And again, I say that with all due respect. Ciskowski didn’t over rule his scouts on QC. He didn’t release Banks and hand the keys to QC, nor bring in Hutch and later Henson. He didn’t bring in Pac Man or TO. Ciscowski didn’t pull the plug on the Galloway or RW trade nor fly to New Jersey to woo BP when he needed a stadium built. Those were decisions made by the GM so please spare us that BS.

The only person that needs to wake up is you. I’m honestly trying to figure out what your angle is because you’ve gone way off the reservation.

I have stated that other NFL teams have great GMs yet still have tumultuous circumstances happening, and a bunch of people denied it.

By the way, can you provide me with the thread where you made this statement and people denied it? Just curious.

 

[Dodger12]

I'm just curious what the excuse would be when those things happen? People have repeatedly said that the things he mentioned already don't happen anywhere else, and said thing to this exact effect. Come see me when they do. Now he's pointed them out and the tune is changed to some other criteria?

I’ll let you know when those things happen because if you think that any organization has been run like ours the past 16 years, then you’re delusional. Can you refer me to a team other than the Cowboys that drafted for special teams and back-ups not once, but twice? You’d think after that philosophy failed the first time, you wouldn’t do it again. Can you refer me to a situation where any reputable owner made his way to the sidelines to have a conference with his HC in any game, let alone one with playoff implications? I’ll wait on that one………………….

Look I get not liking Jerry and what he does. He pisses me off a lot. But these claims were made, of course not necassarily by you. I don't recall your member name so I honestly don't know how often you've been in the endless Jerry threads. But those claims Hos is providing about those things never happening anywhere but Dallas have been made, and made numerous times. Now that he's showing prime examples of them happening elsewhere, including in Pittsburgh which is always one of the franchise people point out as "This would never happen there" the tune is gonna change again.

What’s a prime example? That Pittsburgh canned their OC in the same manner that we canned our DC a couple of years back? In order to make it all relative, you and Hos would have to show me where the fan base was against the move and thought Jerry meddled. I’ll also wait on that one because it didn’t happen. Stewart needed to go and the GM stepped in and basically forced the HC’s hand. In other words, the GM acted in the best interests of the franchise. No one but maybe a select few disagreed with Jerry so please show me how this is relevent to the whole argument. It’s a stretch and a huge one at that.

I’ll tell you another thing that I find funny. Hos and others have asked for references and links when people (ie: “realists&#8221 make claims. Have you seen one here? Have you seen a link to back Hos’ claim? You’re just assuming that what Hos says is fact without any evidence whatsoever. I’ll bet you didn’t even try to verify Hos’ point. I’m from PA and I’ve read articles that state that Tomlin signed off on the “retirement”, that it was his call and he’s is in the process of finding another OC. You know made those claims? Pitsburgh’s owner. Of course, you and others would deny it because that’s what we do here; ask for links and evidence then discredit them when they are provided but doesn't fit a certain agenda. Oh there’s irony alright, but people are looking in the wrong place to find it.

 

[Hostile]

Blah, blah, blah back at you because you’ve been giving a ton BS here recently. This may not mean a whole lot to you, but I have a ton of respect for you and others here even though I disagree with what you have to say. But you’re moving the goal post and then claiming you’re right about something that was never said. Not many people will deny that owners have the final say; it’s their team and they most certainly can have the final say in how their organization is run and the decisions that affect their organization.

If you want to sell to the masses that Ciskowski operates more as a GM than Jerry, then have at it but I’m not buying it and it cheapens not only your argument, but your credibility. And again, I say that with all due respect. Ciskowski didn’t over rule his scouts on QC. He didn’t release Banks and hand the keys to QC, nor bring in Hutch and later Henson. He didn’t bring in Pac Man or TO. Ciscowski didn’t pull the plug on the Galloway or RW trade nor fly to New Jersey to woo BP when he needed a stadium built. Those were decisions made by the GM so please spare us that BS.

The only person that needs to wake up is you. I’m honestly trying to figure out what your angle is because you’ve gone way off the reservation.



By the way, can you provide me with the thread where you made this statement and people denied it? Just curious.

Ciskowski was not in his current position when we acquired Joey Galloway, Chad Hutchinson, or Quincy Carter, so of course it wasn't his call.

Nor have I ever maintained he was involved in those decision making process. I am frankly shocked that it would even be brought up since I have never once claimed he was responsible for those acquisitions.

However, Dave Campo, Larry Lacewell, and others did have input on those moves. It was not all Jerry Jones to the detriment of his football men and team.

Same is true with Roy Williams. Tom Ciskowski did have input on the acquisition of Roy Williams. So did Wade Phillips. It was not only Jerry Jones.

This is the part no one wants to accept because they are so frustrated. Go on believing the myths if you wish. Go on believing that I am Jerry Jones defender if you wish, but it really isn't true. I continue to tell you guys that Jerry is not this great and powerful Oz that you have created, and little by little everything I tell you about the organization is proving to be true.

Deny that all you wish. Disagree with it all you wish. Believe with all your heart that it "cheapens" my credibility. I was never guessing. Do with that information whatever you wish, but I am the guy who pointed out on this forum 3 or 4 years ago that Stephen is the one who negotiates all contracts and answers all questions about contracts, and is the man seated on the Competition Committee, not Jerry Jones.

Once the truth of that was proven, guess what has slowly happened? Stephen has gone from being the golden child promise of our future to being criticized as just a Jerry clone who has no business in this business.

I haven't moved my "goalposts" one inch in all these years of these debates. I have repeatedly said who the GM is does not matter. That it is nothing but a title. I have repeatedly said over the years that other teams are run just like we are. Not Pittsburgh I was told. The Rooney's get out of the way and let their football men run things.

My how silent those oracles are with this news that Art Rooney II forced Arians out against the wishes of his QB and HC.

Like I said, Bill Polian was heralded around here for years. "Let's get Polian from the Colts, we're the Cowboys damnit, it is an upgrade." Peyton Manning goes down to injury and suddenly this football genius GM did nothing to prepare for that and thus is a horrible GM. Just last year people felt he was our savior from Jerry.

The goalposts move man, but I am not the one moving them.

As for providing you the thread, feel free to do a search on the topic. I know what I have said and feel no need to provide links to validate the fact that I have argued that the Cowboys are run like other NFL franchises. I find it really odd that you are even insinuating that I haven't made those claims. I take heat for it all the time from the same core group of posters.

You want to know something else? I am still waiting for one shred of evidence from a man who was our Head Coach here suggesting the meddling that is so often claimed by the media and swallowed by their fish-like fans who think it's just a juicy worm. I feel very comfortable that there are no such evidences, just more made up issues that allegedly tear at the very moral fabric of the football team.

I appreciate the "respect," but would prefer that you listen for a change and stop buying the media fairy tales about this football team.