Soccer Gold Cup - USA vs Mexico

ABQCOWBOY

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joseephuss;3982048 said:
I don't know if there is one specific reason why soccer fails in the US. Fail meaning, having great success in the World Cup and sending a large number of players to the premier leagues of Europe.

Here are my reasons:

1. While youth soccer is big, there is a drop off in the teenage years. There are many local youth teams you can play for, but that number dwindles during the teenage years. And if you want to be a part of the high quality teams it is going to cost you and your family some money. If you ever look up the story of Clint Dempsey you see where his family had to pay a lot of money for him to play on a club team in Dallas. He had to commute back and forth from Nacogdoches. That doesn't happen in other countries. They have good competitive leagues for all ages. Those countries also go out and recruit the top talent and cover their expenses. Soccer can be a very cheap game to play, but the higher the quality the higher the cost. And when you have other options that are cheaper in those regards you lose some of your better athletes.

2. I think coaching in the U.S. is second tier at best. Spain and Germany have a ton of coaches that go to clinics and training to become better at their craft. I think the number of UEFA certified coaches in those two countries far surpasses that of other European countries. The majority of coaches in the U.S. aren't up to that standard.

3. Culture plays a part. It is not the only thing. Some countries have a culture of soccer, but still don't do great at the World Cup. Yet the teams that excel at the sport definitely have a soccer culture about them that the U.S. lacks and maybe always will. It is one thing to have a large population of kids playing in soccer leagues growing up. It is another thing to live and breath soccer. A kid may have a practice every Wednesday and a game every Saturday. What is he doing outside of that time? How does that compare to a kid growing up in one of the great soccer countries? I bet that those kids in the other countries do more things associated with soccer outside of the Wednesday practice and Saturday game than the kids in the U.S. They have been doing it a lot longer in those countries. You don't catch up with that overnight. Although soccer has grown quite a bit over the years, it has a long way to go to be a big part of the culture of the U.S.


I disagree that U.S. soccer is too structured with regards to practice as opposed to just going out and playing. Germany has always been known as very structured in their soccer. Italy plays a rather boring brand of soccer of defense, defense, defense and then counter. Brasil distorts the perception on how teams/countries prepare. They just play and have fun. At least that is the way it looks and it works for them. That is not how every country approaches the game.

I can tell you that in any club team I've ever seen, you don't practice on Wed and play on Saturday. It's much more intense then that. You do live, eat and breath soccer but that's kinda beside the point I think. I am not sure how club soccer is coached where you are at Josee but here, the club soccer coaches are not guys who are not up to speed on the latest coaching techniques by any stretch. In fact, the bulk of the expense is for the retention of these coaches and the assistant coaches who are typically players who are currently playing college or semi pro soccer. If you play HS soccer, it's completely different but you do practice every day.

As far as structured play, even in Europe, they actually play much more then we do. For example, in Europe, you have club teams that are set up to coach a certain style of offense and defense. It's very likely that if you play soccer in Germany and you don't move or join another club, it very possible that you are going to play the same style of soccer. I.E., the same defense and the same offense. In the U.S., when you play Club Soccer, you have different teams all the time. On every team, you have different coaching and a different style. Basically, kids are learning new offense and defenses all the time. You take the basics forward with you but you relearn the rest a lot of times. You spent the majority of practice learning and practicing these things as opposed to actually playing soccer. It is very different here in this regard. Much more structured and much less fun.

Now, if your point is that the Germans have their stuff much more together then we do because they are consistent in their approach from 5 to 17, then yeah, that's a true statement IMO and I would agree with you. However, from the perspective of the player, here in the U.S., it is much more structured because you are having to focus on relearning things from team to team, according to the style of play that HC uses. Much less time to actually play the game and just enjoy it.
 

CATCH17

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ABQCOWBOY;3981679 said:
I think we should be at a point in this country where we should be seeing better results. These countries do not have better athletes then we do. We have more kids playing organized soccer in this country then in any other country in the world. It's not a matter of not enough exposure or not enough kids playing. We should be seeing better results. Soccer is never going to be more popular then Football or Basketball in this country but even if it's third, it still means that more money is being put into the sport then any other sport, outside of American Football and Basketball, in the world. We need to see better results or Soccer's popularity is going to start deteriorating IMO.

All it will take is that 1 iconic lightning rod of a soccer player for the US and I think the sport will get huge here.

We just haven't had that guy come through yet.
 

The30YardSlant

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CATCH17;3982163 said:
All it will take is that 1 iconic lightning rod of a soccer player for the US and I think the sport will get huge here.

We just haven't had that guy come through yet.

I'm very skeptical. Even as someone who enjoys soccer in light doses, I have to admit that it can get hard to watch if you start comparing it to basketball and football. It just doesnt measure up in terms of excitement. 80% of the game is played far from the goal with no realistic chance of a goal occuring.

Even if America ever got really good at soccer (unlikely), it would never be more than fourth fiddle here (baseball, while not overly exciting itself, is too ingrained in our mindset to ever be replaced).
 

ABQCOWBOY

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CATCH17;3982163 said:
All it will take is that 1 iconic lightning rod of a soccer player for the US and I think the sport will get huge here.

We just haven't had that guy come through yet.

I don't think so Catch. I would not be surprised to see a person, such as you describe, change the landscape for a brief time but not for a sustained period of time. In order for us to change, I think we need to make some very basic changes in how we teach the game and develop the sport. So long as we continue to exclude a large segment of the available athletes, we are going to have issues IMO.

I guess we'll see.

:)
 

The30YardSlant

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Soccer also requires a very specific and technical skillset. You can't just pick up a soccer ball and be great at it just because you have natural ability like you can basketball (and to a lesser extent football). It's tough to get kids in America with talent to dedicate the years of effort it takes to be a great soccer player.
 

Cythim

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The MLS clubs are working hard to develop youth talent, but as previously stated college soccer is stunting their growth. College soccer players are not allowed to play for the MLS development squads so they are left in the hands of poor coaching between 18 and 22.

Portland has a U-23 team that isn't part of the MLS development system so college players can play during the summer. One of our stars from 2010 (the team went undefeated and won the PDL championship) discussed the huge disparity in playing for the Timbers versus the college game and how much it helped him in his development.

One thing MLS is doing is offering kids a deal called Generation Adidas where they can turn pro early and are offered a college scholarship to complete school once their pro career is over. This guarantees them a chance at an education should their pro career not work out.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Cythim;3982296 said:
The MLS clubs are working hard to develop youth talent, but as previously stated college soccer is stunting their growth. College soccer players are not allowed to play for the MLS development squads so they are left in the hands of poor coaching between 18 and 22.

Portland has a U-23 team that isn't part of the MLS development system so college players can play during the summer. One of our stars from 2010 (the team went undefeated and won the PDL championship) discussed the huge disparity in playing for the Timbers versus the college game and how much it helped him in his development.

One thing MLS is doing is offering kids a deal called Generation Adidas where they can turn pro early and are offered a college scholarship to complete school once their pro career is over. This guarantees them a chance at an education should their pro career not work out.

That sounds like a great move Cythim. I think that the inequity between college soccer and a lot of these development teams is just too great a disadvantage for our kids. If this could catch on, it might solve a lot. Thanks for posting that info.
 

joseephuss

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ABQCOWBOY;3982081 said:
I can tell you that in any club team I've ever seen, you don't practice on Wed and play on Saturday. It's much more intense then that. You do live, eat and breath soccer but that's kinda beside the point I think. I am not sure how club soccer is coached where you are at Josee but here, the club soccer coaches are not guys who are not up to speed on the latest coaching techniques by any stretch. In fact, the bulk of the expense is for the retention of these coaches and the assistant coaches who are typically players who are currently playing college or semi pro soccer. If you play HS soccer, it's completely different but you do practice every day.
.

I wasn't talking about club teams. I was talking about the average youth leagues. More kids play in those leagues than those that play for club teams.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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joseephuss;3982370 said:
I wasn't talking about club teams. I was talking about the average youth leagues. More kids play in those leagues than those that play for club teams.

Yes, but the serious players, the ones who go on to play in college or on U-Teams come from clubs. That's the problem. If you don't play club, you are probably not going to advance your athletic career in the sport.
 

DFWJC

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OMG.

Could AMERICAN football please start soon!

Cheers.
 

LatinMind

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the biggest flaw US soccer has is its coaching and their gameplan. Altadore would dominate in a brazil or england setting. That and the US coaches seem to want to keep the same old names in rotation instead of infusing the team with new and younger players. Mexico did that for yrs. They moved away from that and look how its going for them.
 

CATCH17

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I enjoyed all the Soccer talk in this thread. I think I learned a little more about the sport.


This must be what it's like for you guys when I post about football. ;)
 

Cythim

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ABQCOWBOY;3982353 said:
That sounds like a great move Cythim. I think that the inequity between college soccer and a lot of these development teams is just too great a disadvantage for our kids. If this could catch on, it might solve a lot. Thanks for posting that info.

Not a problem. Many of our USMNT players were actually signed to Generation Adidas contracts.

Tim Howard, Clint Dempsey, Landon Donovan, Michael Bradley, Carlos Bocanegra, Clarence Goodson, Michael Bradley, Sacha Kljestan, Maurice Edu, Jozy Altidore, DeMarcus Beasley, and Freddy Adu
 
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