Solar Panels

[Jammer]

I believe there was a bit of discussion in this zone about installing solar panel to a home. I briefly looked, couldn't find it, and I think the search is still off. Anyway, here I am.

The wife is every eager to do this but I'm not so sure. She loves thinking she is helping the environment. Her car is an all electric, we have battery powered lawn equipment, which works okay, but gas-powered is still the way to go IMO. Don't even bother mentioning "Is electric really better than fossil fuel?" debate. I'm dealing with a wife who is convinced one way and it's a closed discussion.

I'm not worried about curb appeal or anything like that. I have an older house, but my location is in an excellent location and it will sell for an insane, considering what I think the house is worth have a metal roof that is two years old (if the economy can survive COVID-19). I live in the FL panhandle, my roof is plenty big, and it faces south/southeast.

They say I would need 32 panels.

Any thoughts?

 

[Rockport]

I believe there was a bit of discussion in this zone about installing solar panel to a home. I briefly looked, couldn't find it, and I think the search is still off. Anyway, here I am.

The wife is every eager to do this but I'm not so sure. She loves thinking she is helping the environment. Her car is an all electric, we have battery powered lawn equipment, which works okay, but gas-powered is still the way to go IMO. Don't even bother mentioning "Is electric really better than fossil fuel?" debate. I'm dealing with a wife who is convinced one way and it's a closed discussion.

I'm not worried about curb appeal or anything like that. I have an older house, but my location is in an excellent location and it will sell for an insane, considering what I think the house is worth have a metal roof that is two years old (if the economy can survive COVID-19). I live in the FL panhandle, my roof is plenty big, and it faces south/southeast.

They say I would need 32 panels.

Any thoughts?

Your wife is right.

 

[Reality]

I believe there was a bit of discussion in this zone about installing solar panel to a home. I briefly looked, couldn't find it, and I think the search is still off. Anyway, here I am.

The wife is every eager to do this but I'm not so sure. She loves thinking she is helping the environment. Her car is an all electric, we have battery powered lawn equipment, which works okay, but gas-powered is still the way to go IMO. Don't even bother mentioning "Is electric really better than fossil fuel?" debate. I'm dealing with a wife who is convinced one way and it's a closed discussion.

I'm not worried about curb appeal or anything like that. I have an older house, but my location is in an excellent location and it will sell for an insane, considering what I think the house is worth have a metal roof that is two years old (if the economy can survive COVID-19). I live in the FL panhandle, my roof is plenty big, and it faces south/southeast.

They say I would need 32 panels.

Any thoughts?

I think California requires them on all new multi-level homes being built now, but it is not just about helping the environment though.

Solar panels are a smart investment and they are getting more efficient and their costs are decreasing every year. In addition to lowering your electric bill, if you purchase enough battery storage, you can power your house during brief and extended power outages.

 

[FloridaRob]

Just know whatever you spend on it, you will not get a dollar for dollar return on it if you sell. I do see a higher return on that than I see in pools, and that is in florida where everyone should have a pool. If you do it, just plan on staying there a long time . If you plan on leaving sooner than five years reconsider.

 

[Jammer]

I think California requires them on all new multi-level homes being built now, but it is not just about helping the environment though.

Solar panels are a smart investment and they are getting more efficient and their costs are decreasing every year. In addition to lo wering your electric bill, if you purchase enough battery storage, you can power your house during brief and extended power outages.

Thanks for feedback Reality. I know I read about California's new construction laws. I would not be getting back up batteries. In FL you cannot legally get off the grid. No mater how much energy you generate you will only get credits. One of the main reasons I'm looking into this is because the payment will be flat and I won't have to worry about energy prices going up unless I use more than my system supports.

 

[Reality]

Just know whatever you spend on it, you will not get a dollar for dollar return on it if you sell. I do see a higher return on that than I see in pools, and that is in florida where everyone should have a pool. If you do it, just plan on staying there a long time . If you plan on leaving sooner than five years reconsider.

If you keep your house long enough, you will more than offset your losses on resellability.

That said, there are other benefits such as it will make your house more appealing to some buyers should you decide to sell in the future.

 

[Reality]

Thanks for feedback Reality. I know I read about California's new construction laws. I would not be getting back up batteries. In FL you cannot legally get off the grid. No mater how much energy you generate you will only get credits. One of the main reasons I'm looking into this is because the payment will be flat and I won't have to worry about energy prices going up unless I use more than my system supports.

I wasn't speaking about off-grid use. I was talking about "reserve power" use.

I am not overly familiar with residential solar systems, but I would think that having no reserve storage would mean you will only see a small benefit from your solar system and that's only when the sun is or recently was shining.

With a battery storage system, it's not about disconnecting from wired electrical service. It's about storing a reserve that you can pull from when you use electricity.

Think of it like this .. imagine having to buy gas for your vehicle every time you drive it. That would be a pain even if you had a gas pump at your house. That is why vehicles have gas tanks, so there is a reserve available. It will not let you drive indefinitely but at least it will offset the need to get gas for a little while.

A battery storage system is simply a middle-man energy supplier that stores and provides energy until it runs out, then you pull from your wired electrical provider.

 

[FloridaRob]

If you keep your house long enough, you will more than offset your losses on resellability.

That said, there are other benefits such as it will make your house more appealing to some buyers should you decide to sell in the future.

That's true. That's why I said keep it a while. And while it would be appealing to buyers, they are not going to pay a dollar for dollar of the actual cost. Similar to a pool.

 

[YosemiteSam]

A developer that works for me that moved from Ohio to Arizona close to a year ago had solar panels installed on his house. It cut his electric bill from $650/mo to $320/mo. At least that is what it cut it the first full month of use.

He calculated it would take a little over five years (around 68 months I believe) for the panels to pay for themselves at that rate. Kind of like paying off a car by saving on your electric payment lol.

Maybe tomorrow I will check with him again and see if he is still averaging the same savings.

If your using solar electricity, you aren't burning (as much anyway) coal, natural gas, or any other fossil fuels for your home, so you are in fact helping the environment.

I live in a area that is heavily forest. So, solar panels really aren't an option for me unless I cut all the trees down and I'm just not going to do that.

 

[Jammer]

I wasn't speaking about off-grid use. I was talking about "reserve power" use.

I am not overly familiar with residential solar systems, but I would think that having no reserve storage would mean you will only see a small benefit from your solar system and that's only when the sun is or recently was shining.

With a battery storage system, it's not about disconnecting from wired electrical service. It's about storing a reserve that you can pull from when you use electricity.

Think of it like this .. imagine having to buy gas for your vehicle every time you drive it. That would be a pain even if you had a gas pump at your house. That is why vehicles have gas tanks, so there is a reserve available. It will not let you drive indefinitely but at least it will offset the need to get gas for a little while.

A battery storage system is simply a middle-man energy supplier that stores and provides energy until it runs out, then you pull from your wired electrical provider.

I understand all that. My last company installed battery backup systems for our systems to include some Navy Brigs (you wouldn't want the prison system electrical system going down while the generators kick in LOL). My concern is cost. I will have to do more research on cost/benefits of battery backup.

 

[YosemiteSam]

That's true. That's why I said keep it a while. And while it would be appealing to buyers, they are not going to pay a dollar for dollar of the actual cost. Similar to a pool.

Depending where you are, pools can have a negative value on a home. Like up here in the NY / tri-state area. They are a negative to the value of the home. I bought my previous home with a pool and sold it for a hell of a lot more, but I also closed the pool when I had it.

 

[Reality]

I understand all that. My last company installed battery backup systems for our systems to include some Navy Brigs (you wouldn't want the prison system electrical system going down while the generators kick in LOL). My concern is cost. I will have to do more research on cost/benefits of battery backup.

You don't have to go crazy with battery storage. Again, the goal is not to be off-grid but to more fully utilize your solar system.

If you design it right, you could start with one or two lithium-based batteries and then add more to your setup if/when you need or want them.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I wasn't speaking about off-grid use. I was talking about "reserve power" use.

I am not overly familiar with residential solar systems, but I would think that having no reserve storage would mean you will only see a small benefit from your solar system and that's only when the sun is or recently was shining.

With a battery storage system, it's not about disconnecting from wired electrical service. It's about storing a reserve that you can pull from when you use electricity.

Think of it like this .. imagine having to buy gas for your vehicle every time you drive it. That would be a pain even if you had a gas pump at your house. That is why vehicles have gas tanks, so there is a reserve available. It will not let you drive indefinitely but at least it will offset the need to get gas for a little while.

A battery storage system is simply a middle-man energy supplier that stores and provides energy until it runs out, then you pull from your wired electrical provider.

My understanding is this.

You can get it two ways, but both ways feed power back into the grid.

The developer I was just talking about does NOT have batteries. He only feeds power back into the grid and then gets his monthly electric bill discounted for whatever power he feed back into the grid. His home does not use any of the power from his solar panels. 100% is sent back into the grid.

The other is, you have a battery store (maybe 100-500ah) and your solar panels charge your battery store. Once that store if fully charged (or even at the same time), it feed power back into the grid. If the power goes out, you can flip a switch that will turn *some* of the outlets in your house on, but not all of them.

You would need a MASSIVE battery store to power an entire house on batteries. For situations where you want your entire house powered. You need a whole house generator. (like a 10kw hour generator)

 

[Jammer]

A developer that works for me that moved from Ohio to Arizona close to a year ago had solar panels installed on his house. It cut his electric bill from $650/mo to $320/mo. At least that is what it cut it the first full month of use.

He calculated it would take a little over five years (around 68 months I believe) for the panels to pay for themselves at that rate. Kind of like paying off a car by saving on your electric payment lol.

Maybe tomorrow I will check with him again and see if he is still averaging the same savings.

If your using solar electricity, you aren't burning (as much anyway) coal, natural gas, or any other fossil fuels for your home, so you are in fact helping the environment.

I live in a area that is heavily forest. So, solar panels really aren't an option for me unless I cut all the trees down and I'm just not going to do that.

That's pretty good. I was worried about the roof coverage. We have a large oak tree that covers a large portion of our house, but where the panels would be installed the tree would have minimal disruption. My wife explained it would be pointless to have the tree removed because its shade provides a lot of cooling on it's own. I was hoping we would have to remove the tree. I hate the thing. Too many hours I spend cleaning up after it (leaves, sticks, pollen pods...list is endless).

 

[Reality]

My understanding is this.

You can get it two ways, but both ways feed power back into the grid.

The developer I was just talking about does NOT have batteries. He only feeds power back into the grid and then gets his monthly electric bill discounted for whatever power he feed back into the grid. His home does not use any of the power from his solar panels. 100% is sent back into the grid.

The other is, you have a battery store (maybe 100-500ah) and your solar panels charge your battery store. Once that store if fully charged (or even at the same time), it feed power back into the grid. If the power goes out, you can flip a switch that will turn *some* of the outlets in your house on, but not all of them.

You would need a MASSIVE battery store to power an entire house on batteries. For situations where you want your entire house powered. You need a whole house generator.

That's why I said start with one or two lithium-based batteries (assuming 100ah each) but allow for expansion should you need it.

I am in no way saying it will run your house completely which is why if you read my other posts I stressed this is not about going off-grid.

What I am saying is that your solar panels are going to generate energy all day, weather permitting, and you will not be there the entire time to utilize it. Yes, you can feed it back to the electric company for credits but you are at the mercy of their credit pricing system and as more people do it, I suspect it will drive down their value due to "administrative fees" of some kind.

Instead of wasting all of that energy or worse, sending it all back to the electric company for a fraction of what they are crediting you, it is way more logical to use as much of your own self-generating energy as possible by storing as much of it as you can.

To run a regular house, I would guess you would need somewhere between 2000ah and 3000ah storage, which is not cost-efficient even with the decrease in lithium battery storage pricing or improvements in energy conversion rates from charge controllers. Even then you would have to limit and work around your storage reserves for heavy draw items like dryers, dish washers, hair dryers, etc.

In any case, I would not install a residential solar system without some type of battery storage, but that's just me as I am sure some people do just that. I would have at least 100-200ah of lithium storage since most lithium-based batteries can be drained completely or down to 10-15% usually without being damaged.

 

[Jammer]

You don't have to go crazy with battery storage. Again, the goal is not to be off-grid but to more fully utilize your solar system.

If you design it right, you could start with one or two lithium-based batteries and then add more to your setup if/when you need or want them.

Thanks. I will contact the company and see what can be done. I do live in an area that is hurricane prone.

 

[YosemiteSam]

That's why I said start with one or two lithium-based batteries (assuming 100ah each) but allow for expansion should you need it.

I am in no way saying it will run your house completely which is why if you read my other posts I stressed this is not about going off-grid.

What I am saying is that your solar panels are going to generate energy all day, weather permitting, and you will not be there the entire time to utilize it. Yes, you can feed it back to the electric company for credits but you are at the mercy of their credit pricing system and as more people do it, I suspect it will drive down their value due to "administrative fees" of some kind.

Instead of wasting all of that energy or worse, sending it all back to the electric company for a fraction of what they are crediting you, it is way more logical to use as much of your own self-generating energy as possible by storing as much of it as you can.

To run a regular house, I would guess you would need somewhere between 2000ah and 3000ah storage, which is not cost-efficient even with the decrease in lithium battery storage pricing or improvements in energy conversion rates from charge controllers. Even then you would have to limit and work around your storage reserves for heavy draw items like dryers, dish washers, hair dryers, etc.

In any case, I would not install a residential solar system without some type of battery storage, but that's just me as I am sure some people do just that. I would have at least 100-200ah of lithium storage since most lithium-based batteries can be drained completely or down to 10-15% usually without being damaged.

I wasn't implying anything about what you said. I was just explaining what I've seen / read about other people's installations.

I have some solar panels, but mine are small mobile panels and I only use them to charge up my LiFePO4 batteries I use for ham radio and my astronomy / astrophotography. My batteries are 4.5ah, 9ah, and 12ah. I've been debating picking up a 50 or 100ah LiFoPO4 battery, but they are around $450 and $850 respectively. Mainly to power my radio at 100w power while camping for a few days. The 9 and 12ah batteries power my QRP radio (12-15w) the entire time, but not my 100w radio

 

[Runwildboys]

I believe there was a bit of discussion in this zone about installing solar panel to a home. I briefly looked, couldn't find it, and I think the search is still off. Anyway, here I am.

The wife is every eager to do this but I'm not so sure. She loves thinking she is helping the environment. Her car is an all electric, we have battery powered lawn equipment, which works okay, but gas-powered is still the way to go IMO. Don't even bother mentioning "Is electric really better than fossil fuel?" debate. I'm dealing with a wife who is convinced one way and it's a closed discussion.

I'm not worried about curb appeal or anything like that. I have an older house, but my location is in an excellent location and it will sell for an insane, considering what I think the house is worth have a metal roof that is two years old (if the economy can survive COVID-19). I live in the FL panhandle, my roof is plenty big, and it faces south/southeast.

They say I would need 32 panels.

Any thoughts?

You don't need to buy them.

A developer that works for me that moved from Ohio to Arizona close to a year ago had solar panels installed on his house. It cut his electric bill from $650/mo to $320/mo. At least that is what it cut it the first full month of use.

He calculated it would take a little over five years (around 68 months I believe) for the panels to pay for themselves at that rate. Kind of like paying off a car by saving on your electric payment lol.

Maybe tomorrow I will check with him again and see if he is still averaging the same savings.

If your using solar electricity, you aren't burning (as much anyway) coal, natural gas, or any other fossil fuels for your home, so you are in fact helping the environment.

I live in a area that is heavily forest. So, solar panels really aren't an option for me unless I cut all the trees down and I'm just not going to do that.

$650/mo.??? My electric bill last month was $65. Living alone has its advantages.

 

[Rockport]

That's why I said start with one or two lithium-based batteries (assuming 100ah each) but allow for expansion should you need it.

I am in no way saying it will run your house completely which is why if you read my other posts I stressed this is not about going off-grid.

What I am saying is that your solar panels are going to generate energy all day, weather permitting, and you will not be there the entire time to utilize it. Yes, you can feed it back to the electric company for credits but you are at the mercy of their credit pricing system and as more people do it, I suspect it will drive down their value due to "administrative fees" of some kind.

Instead of wasting all of that energy or worse, sending it all back to the electric company for a fraction of what they are crediting you, it is way more logical to use as much of your own self-generating energy as possible by storing as much of it as you can.

To run a regular house, I would guess you would need somewhere between 2000ah and 3000ah storage, which is not cost-efficient even with the decrease in lithium battery storage pricing or improvements in energy conversion rates from charge controllers. Even then you would have to limit and work around your storage reserves for heavy draw items like dryers, dish washers, hair dryers, etc.

In any case, I would not install a residential solar system without some type of battery storage, but that's just me as I am sure some people do just that. I would have at least 100-200ah of lithium storage since most lithium-based batteries can be drained completely or down to 10-15% usually without being damaged.

Depending on how wealthy your are, there are other choices than the high-end lithium batteries. AGM type batteries are half the price if not less.

 

[YosemiteSam]

$650/mo.??? My electric bill last month was $65. Living alone has its advantages.

The home I bought a couple of years ago doesn't have oil or gas. It's 100% electric with electric baseboard radiator heat. My electric bill during the coldest months are $950-$1000. Though during the spring and summer my electric bill shrinks to around $350.

At $65/mo, I can only guess you live in an apartment building that has a central boiler that provides heat. That's what my first apartment had when I first moved to NY back in Jan 2005. Of course the apartment was only 650sqft too.

Also, the boiler pipes went right beneath my bedroom. When it was 5F outside my room would get so hot that I had to open a window! lol.

I remember I had moved to Greenwich from that apartment, but I still had the apartment for a few months. My father was coming to town for a visit. I told him they could stay in my Larchmont, NY apartment. They loved it. Starbucks across the street. Beautiful little town with many places to eat, train to the city, etc all within walking distance.
I warned him to open in the window at night and he didn't believe me. Said it was too cold for that. The surprise call I got from him around 11pm that night!