Solar Panels

[Runwildboys]

The home I bought a couple of years ago doesn't have oil or gas. It's 100% electric with electric baseboard radiator heat. My electric bill during the coldest months are $950-$1000. Though during the spring and summer my electric bill shrinks to around $350.

At $65/mo, I can only guess you live in an apartment building that has a central boiler that provides heat. That's what my first apartment had when I first moved to NY back in Jan 2005. Of course the apartment was only 650sqft too.

Also, the boiler pipes went right beneath my bedroom. When it was 5F outside my room would get so hot that I had to open a window! lol.

I remember I had moved to Greenwich from that apartment, but I still had the apartment for a few months. My father was coming to town for a visit. I told him they could stay in my Larchmont, NY apartment. They loved it. Starbucks across the street. Beautiful little town with many places to eat, train to the city, etc all within walking distance.
I warned him to open in the window at night and he didn't believe me. Said it was too cold for that. The surprise call I got from him around 11pm that night!

I have a house. It's a small ranch, but I don't see why I would use much more electricity living in a bigger house, as long as it was still just me. I understand using more oil or whatever you heat with, but unless, like you said, you have electric heat, I don't see why you'd use much more electricity.
Of course, come summer I'll be running the A/C units, and a bigger house would definitely use more electricity for that....but $650/mo.? That seems like someone who isn't even trying to cut down his usage.

 

[morasp]

I believe there was a bit of discussion in this zone about installing solar panel to a home. I briefly looked, couldn't find it, and I think the search is still off. Anyway, here I am.

The wife is every eager to do this but I'm not so sure. She loves thinking she is helping the environment. Her car is an all electric, we have battery powered lawn equipment, which works okay, but gas-powered is still the way to go IMO. Don't even bother mentioning "Is electric really better than fossil fuel?" debate. I'm dealing with a wife who is convinced one way and it's a closed discussion.

I'm not worried about curb appeal or anything like that. I have an older house, but my location is in an excellent location and it will sell for an insane, considering what I think the house is worth have a metal roof that is two years old (if the economy can survive COVID-19). I live in the FL panhandle, my roof is plenty big, and it faces south/southeast.

They say I would need 32 panels.

Any thoughts?

I did it about a year and a half ago and it was the smartest thing I ever did. Even w/o utility rate increases it will pay for itself in 10 years and all parts and labor are warranted for 25 years. There is a new grid tie system this year with automatic battery backup kind of the those generac commercials you see on tv. The difference is the sun vs. storing enough fuel for the generator.

 

[Reality]

Depending on how wealthy your are, there are other choices than the high-end lithium batteries. AGM type batteries are half the price if not less.

I would definitely not buy AGM batteries. Lithium batteries can be drained down to 0 to 15% (depends on battery) while AGM batteries can only be drained down to 50 to 60%. Any lower and you will damage them, so cost is only relevant to count, not charge or efficiency.

Lithium batteries cost more but you have to buy 2 to 3 AGM batteries per 1 lithium battery to get the same “usable” storage.

 

[Jammer]

I did it about a year and a half ago and it was the smartest thing I ever did. Even w/o utility rate increases it will pay for itself in 10 years and all parts and labor are warranted for 25 years. There is a new grid tie system this year with automatic battery backup kind of the those generac commercials you see on tv. The difference is the sun vs. storing enough fuel for the generator.

Thank you for your reply. I am pretty sure we are going to pull the trigger to get this done.

 

[Rockport]

I would definitely not buy AGM batteries. Lithium batteries can be drained down to 0 to 15% (depends on battery) while AGM batteries can only be drained down to 50 to 60%. Any lower and you will damage them, so cost is only relevant to count, not charge or efficiency.

Lithium batteries cost more but you have to buy 2 to 3 AGM batteries per 1 lithium battery to get the same “usable” storage.

It depends on the use. It's commonly recommended for solar battery storage that AGM, Lead or flooded be used because you need a large number to store 3 or 4 days worth of energy. If cost is of no issue, than certainly Lithium is the way to go. For RV',s etc. lithium is the way to go depending on your budget.

 

[morasp]

In a related matter, we just bought a "solar generator" and love it. I had put together a system myself with inverters chargers solar panels etc. about six years ago and never had to use it. When I found this system I had to get it and it made me wish I had waited. I had looked on Amazon and there were a lot of options some by companies that aren't even around anymore and some that still are but I didn't really like any of them. The one I purchased is from a company called the Alt-E store and the product is called the Kilo Vault Res-Q. It is head a shoulders above the ones I had looked at in the past. 1200 watt hours, two year warranty vs. one or less, 2500 cycles vs 500 or less, the 1500 Watt output runs everything but my big appliances like Dryer, heat pump, and water heater, commercial grade build quality with a rugged metal chassis vs cheap molded plastic, the more stable and reliable lifepo4 batteries vs the cheaper lithium, and the final feature that was my tipping point for ordering it was the ability to increase the watt hour capacity by plugging my old AGM batteries into it and letting it use them first before it switched to it's internal battery.

 

[Reality]

It depends on the use. It's commonly recommended for solar battery storage that AGM, Lead or flooded be used because you need a large number to store 3 or 4 days worth of energy. If cost is of no issue, than certainly Lithium is the way to go. For RV',s etc. lithium is the way to go depending on your budget.

I don't think you read my post your replied to or my earlier posts. It's not about being off-grid. It takes 2-3 AGM batteries to provide the "usable" charge/storage available in one comparable lithium battery.

5-10 years ago AGM was a great upgrade from lead-based batteries, but Lithium has replaced AGM like AGM replaced lead-based batteries.

If the storage you require is 3-4 days of energy (not really the point of why I was suggesting batteries in the first place) then however many lithium batteries it takes, you will need 2-3 times that in AGM batteries to get the same "usable" charge/storage.

So, even on a budget, it's smarter to buy lithium now and expand as you can afford it unless you cannot afford a single 100ah lithium battery ($1,000 or lower) and if that's the case, you probably should not be looking to install a complete solar system on your house.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I don't think you read my post your replied to or my earlier posts. It's not about being off-grid. It takes 2-3 AGM batteries to provide the "usable" charge/storage available in one comparable lithium battery.

5-10 years ago AGM was a great upgrade from lead-based batteries, but Lithium has replaced AGM like AGM replaced lead-based batteries.

If the storage you require is 3-4 days of energy (not really the point of why I was suggesting batteries in the first place) then however many lithium batteries it takes, you will need 2-3 times that in AGM batteries to get the same "usable" charge/storage.

So, even on a budget, it's smarter to buy lithium now and expand as you can afford it unless you cannot afford a single 100ah lithium battery ($1,000 or lower) and if that's the case, you probably should not be looking to install a complete solar system on your house.

Not to mention, LiFOPO4 batteries weight substantially less than AGM batteries!

 

[YosemiteSam]

I just spoke to my dev about what he gets with his solar panels.

From his bill, he said it's inconsistant, but he expects probably $250/mo savings for the next several months as he said he is entering a period where it stays mostly sunny.

He said depending on how much Sun they get, he averages between 50-70kwh of power generation per day. Mostly 50-60 when the days are inconsistent Sun, and 60-70kwh per day when it's mostly sunny.

He has a 2-story house, his neighbor has a ranch style house and says his neighbor's electric bill averages $80/mo. (a bit smaller house and he says multi-story houses cost more to cool)

 

[morasp]

I don't think you read my post your replied to or my earlier posts. It's not about being off-grid. It takes 2-3 AGM batteries to provide the "usable" charge/storage available in one comparable lithium battery.

5-10 years ago AGM was a great upgrade from lead-based batteries, but Lithium has replaced AGM like AGM replaced lead-based batteries.

If the storage you require is 3-4 days of energy (not really the point of why I was suggesting batteries in the first place) then however many lithium batteries it takes, you will need 2-3 times that in AGM batteries to get the same "usable" charge/storage.

So, even on a budget, it's smarter to buy lithium now and expand as you can afford it unless you cannot afford a single 100ah lithium battery ($1,000 or lower) and if that's the case, you probably should not be looking to install a complete solar system on your house.

Lithium batteries also have a higher C rate so they can be charged faster and provide almost instantaneous response to load changes. They also are rated for thousands of charge/discharge cycles Vs. hundreds for AGM making them good for daily use.

 

[SlammedZero]

It seems to be a reemerging trend. I remember my dad did residential solar panel installs when I was really young (80s) and then business dried up. There are a couple houses in my neighborhood that have had them recently installed. If done right I don't think it looks all that bad either. I have an acquaintance that had his house done a few years ago. It took him those few years for it to turn into an investment but he is now receiving credits each month from Idaho Power. Definitely something to look into I think.

 

[Runwildboys]

My nephew worked (for a short time) for a company that would put them on your house free of charge, and you'd get some credit each month, but basically they were renting space on your roof.

 

[Rockport]

I don't think you read my post your replied to or my earlier posts. It's not about being off-grid. It takes 2-3 AGM batteries to provide the "usable" charge/storage available in one comparable lithium battery.

5-10 years ago AGM was a great upgrade from lead-based batteries, but Lithium has replaced AGM like AGM replaced lead-based batteries.

If the storage you require is 3-4 days of energy (not really the point of why I was suggesting batteries in the first place) then however many lithium batteries it takes, you will need 2-3 times that in AGM batteries to get the same "usable" charge/storage.

So, even on a budget, it's smarter to buy lithium now and expand as you can afford it unless you cannot afford a single 100ah lithium battery ($1,000 or lower) and if that's the case, you probably should not be looking to install a complete solar system on your house.

I read your post so stop implying I'm an imbecile or something. Lithium batteries are generally not recommended for solar panel storage because they are cheaper and are constantly being charged even on cloudy days therefore they usually never get discharged below 50%. If you can afford them, fine but they are the most expensive part of a solar system and therefore are not usually recommended. I know you don't like to be wrong so I'm done with this argument. Can't beat city hall.

 

[Bigdog]

I don't think it is required out here in CA just yet as they are building houses about 2 streets over from me and they do not have panels on them . Also I looked into it and I did not save a lot (only about $27 a month). Also I know that they are getting better but I talked to a guy who use to work in the business and he told me that they lose their efficiency and only about 30% effective when the lease is up in 20 years.

 

[Jammer]

Our system is going to be a small 10.08 KW DC. My "electric" payment will be roughly $20 less than my average monthly bill for the year and it will not go up so I should save more money in the long run. Basically I will be earning credits with the electric company to pay for my electric use for the summer months. We have gas heat and a gas tankless water heater so our electric bill is pretty low after October - May.

 

[65fastback2plus2]

Solar as with electric provides no environmental benefit and usually not a savings benefit.

There are alternate benefits, but that depends on your desires.

Example: I have all battery yard tools....the benefit? They're far more quiet

Solar provides the benefit of being able to be off grid.

 

[YosemiteSam]

lol

 

[Jammer]

Solar as with electric provides no environmental benefit and usually not a savings benefit.

There are alternate benefits, but that depends on your desires.

Example: I have all battery yard tools....the benefit? They're far more quiet

Solar provides the benefit of being able to be off grid.

According to the proposal I will get lots of benefit. One benefit is I will know exactly how much my bill will be every month as long as I don't increase my electrical use. I really don't see that happening because each new appliance becomes more efficient and it's just my me and my wife and we keep our house comfortable but not cold.

When the rates go up my solar panel costs will stay the same. When I pay the loan off then I will get almost free electricity. I cannot get legally get off the grid here in FL. I will have to pay a $20 connection fee monthly, but I'm okay with that. The electric company does have to maintain the grid and I'm on it.

If the panels don't provide me the power the installer says then they either upgrade the system on their dime, or they take it off my roof.

 

[morasp]

Our system is going to be a small 10.08 KW DC. My "electric" payment will be roughly $20 less than my average monthly bill for the year and it will not go up so I should save more money in the long run. Basically I will be earning credits with the electric company to pay for my electric use for the summer months. We have gas heat and a gas tankless water heater so our electric bill is pretty low after October - May.

What hardware are you going with. We ended up with Enphase micro-inverters and REC solar panels.

 

[Jammer]

What hardware are you going with. We ended up with Enphase micro-inverters and REC solar panels.

I'm pretty sure the same inverters (I know we're using their software) but our panels will be the Q-Cell - DUO G5.