Some issues with the HoF...

[trickblue]

OK... we all know this is nothing new...

Bob Hayes should be in. Hands down. He changed the game. Chuck Howley should be in. Hands down. Friend of CZ Cliff Harris should be in. Hands down. Drew Pearson should be in. Hands down. Lee Roy Jordan should be in. Hands down.

This is the release from the NFL today:

Two more Cowboys were among the final four Seniors Committee considerations for the 2008 Pro Football Hall of Fame induction. Wide receiver Bob Hayes and linebacker Chuck Howley were included in the final four, along with Johnny Robinson and Tommy Nobis. That group will be pared down to two.
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ALL of these guys deserve to be in. Why does it have to be cut down to two from the old school?

Why do more recent players get more consideration than the players that preceded them?

There are MANY old time players that deserve to be in. Why are the rules so stringent?

It's a disgrace to see newer players getting in over their predecessors that deserve it as much if not more...

I don't give a crap who they played for... Monk, Gradishar, Klecko, (Bob) Hayes, (Harvey) Martin, (Cliff) Harris. ALL of these guys deserve to be in...

The problem is that we have voters that were crapping their diapers when many of these guys played...

Why can't we just get the guys in that deserve it?

I grew up in the 60's... everyone here knows I am old school... why do players of that era have achieve a higher standard?

 

[Q_the_man]

Pearson was good and I loved him, but he was no HOFer sorry

 

[trickblue]

Pearson was good and I loved him, but he was no HOFer sorry

Let me ask you this... is Lynn Swann Hof?

 

[Q_the_man]

Let me ask you this... is Lynn Swann Hof?

it's a difference swann was part of 4 super victories.....and he had more tds and 2 less years.....

 

[blindzebra]

Swann: 336 rec, 5462 yards, 51 TDs

Pearson: 489 rec, 7832, yards, 48 TDs

Playoffs you say?

Swann: 48 rec, 907 yards, 9 TDs

Pearson: 68 rec, 1131 yards, 8 TDs

 

[trickblue]

Pearson was good and I loved him, but he was no HOFer sorry

it's a difference swann was part of 4 super victories.....and he had more tds and 2 less years.....

Swann: 336 rec, 5462 yards, 51 TDs

Pearson: 489 rec, 7832, yards, 48 TDs

Playoffs you say?

Swann: 48 rec, 907 yards, 9 TDs

Pearson: 68 rec, 1131 yards, 8 TDs

Where is your (Steeler) God now?

Five "Hail Mary's" and 12 "Baptist's Rule"...

 

[Q_the_man]

Swann: 336 rec, 5462 yards, 51 TDs

Pearson: 489 rec, 7832, yards, 48 TDs

Playoffs you say?

Swann: 48 rec, 907 yards, 9 TDs

Pearson: 68 rec, 1131 yards, 8 TDs

swann avg ----37 rec 606 yards 5.5 tds a year

pearson avg ---44 rec 712 yards 4.3 tds a year

Pearson avg more catches and yards, swann avg more TD,

If anything Cliff Branch should be in the HOF b4 both of them

 

[Q_the_man]

Where is your (Steeler) God now?

Five "Hail Mary's" and 12 "Baptist's Rule"...

I have no steeler God, I Bleed Blue and Silver, Growing up I loved Pearson, and I think he was good but not Hof, Bob Hayes goes b4 him IMO.... Swann Just made a couple good catches that were highlight reel and since it was the 70's and they won 4 titles they threw him in....

 

[blindzebra]

Branch's stats are comparable to the other Steeler WR in the HOF Stallworth, and his numbers are better than both Pearson's and Swann's.

But what you should be saying instead of Drew not being worthy, is if identical numbers from players who also won championships and played equally well in big games aren't in why are Swann and Stallworth?

Because there is a bias against Dallas and Oakland.

 

[Q_the_man]

It's almost like comparing Monk to Irvin.... Monk has more yards, catches and TDs and has a couple rings. it's just well, I'm not voting so as long as we get a couple in the hall I guess we are OK. lol

 

[trickblue]

I have no steeler God, I Bleed Blue and Silver, Growing up I loved Pearson, and I think he was good but not Hof, Bob Hayes goes b4 him IMO.... Swann Just made a couple good catches that were highlight reel and since it was the 70's and they won 4 titles they threw him in....

I agree... Hayes should be in... before ANY of them...

But if Swann and Stallworth are in, so should be Pearson...

Hayes should have been in before any of them regardless...

 

[trickblue]

It's almost like comparing Monk to Irvin.... Monk has more yards, catches and TDs and has a couple rings. it's just well, I'm not voting so as long as we get a couple in the hall I guess we are OK. lol

They both should be in...

The whole purpose of this thread was asking why the newer guys get in before the old timers...

There is no logical argument as to why any I mentioned above are not in...

 

[Q_the_man]

They both should be in...

The whole purpose of this thread was asking why the newer guys get in before the old timers...

There is no logical argument as to why any I mentioned above are not in...

the newer guys get in first because they are now players and the older guys after 2 or 3 year after not getting in u are not as rememberable as you were and as time goes by they fade away, sort of like sex with the wifey it was good in the beginning then after 40 years it's almost forgettable. glad I still have 30 more years b4 she forgets

Did Andre Reed get in, I don't think so but he was a great reciever so was bad moon Rison, well Rison first 7 years were as good as any WR ever....his stats I think are better then Irvin and If not for Injury could of had over 125 Tds....

 

[blindzebra]

The problem with the voting is that individual bias plays too big a role and set guidelines are nonexistent.

For me it should come down to this:

Was the player instrumental to cause drastic change within the game?

Some players were so explosive that teams and even the rule makers had to alter the game to try to contain them.

Bob Hayes, Gale Sayers, Lawrence Taylor fit this category.

Was the player considered among the best at his position during his career?

This is where pro bowls, all pro, all decade and individual awards come into play.

Did the player have stats that rank among the all-time best?

Was the player at his best in the big game?

Was the player outstanding even without great support?

I don't think players should be penalized for being on great teams, but players on the bubble should get the benefit of the doubt if they were great in spite of being on a crappy team.

Players that fit into 3 to 5 of those areas should be a lock for the HOF, IMO.

 

[Q_the_man]

A new bar will be set now, WR will need 1000 catches, 12,000 yards and about 90 tds to get into the hall now. Oh well, we might get Hayes and pearson in, it would be nice....

But now I'm waiting on Romo, Ware, Newman, Roy and this years Cowboys to be in the talk for HOF in the next 10 years

 

[Hostile]

In 1963 they inducted an avowed racist into the Hall of Fame in George Preston Marshall, the owner of the Commanders.

In the original NFL there were Black athletes. Marshall talked other owners into avoiding Blacks starting in 1934. In 1946 the other teams began signing Black players but Marshall and the Commanders did not until 1962 and then only under a threat by the JFK Administration. So from 1934 through 1946, largely due to this man's influence, Blacks were discriminated against in the NFL. He continued his own discrimination against them for 16 more years.

One year after he caved to pressure from the Presidency of the United States, he's a Hall of Famer. His racism is noted by the Hall of Fame, albeit hidden behind fluffy language.

"Marshall was totally involved in all aspects of his team's operation and endured his share of criticism for not integrating his team until being forced to do so in 1962."

In 1962 Marshall complied with the Presidential order because the Government could revoke his lease on DC Stadium, paid for with government money. So Marshall drafted Syracuse RB Ernie Davis in the 1st round in 1962. Davis refused to play for "that S.O.B." He was traded to Cleveland for Bobby Mitchell and Mitchell was the first Black to play for the Commanders.

I ask you, who hurt more people? Bob Hayes with his drug use? Or George Preston Marshall and his racism?

Marshall is enshrined because in many ways he changed the game.

So did Bob Hayes.

 

[JakeCamp12]

This is just my 2 cents...but I don't think Pearson belongs in the Hall because he was just a very good player. He deserves to be in the Ring of Honor, but not the Hall. He didn't change the game in any special way nor was he the catalyst on any of those teams he played for. I love Drew, loved watching him play, but he is not a HOFer in my opinion. I also don't think John Stallworth was, but I do think Swann was. Swann always showed up in big games, which I hated. I don't think Monk is a HOfer either. He and Drew are the same type of receiver in my opinion, very good, but not Hall worthy. Hayes is Hall worthy as he changed the sport because of his speed and athleticism. No one that could run track in those days could also play football. They never would have been able to take the pounding. Hayes was the physical freak of his era because he could do many things well. A 21 year old Bob Hayes today would torch the receiving records if given the chance. I am praying he gets in this year and a sever injustice is fixed....ray:

 

[JakeCamp12]

In 1963 they inducted an avowed racist into the Hall of Fame in George Preston Marshall, the owner of the Commanders.

In the original NFL there were Black athletes. Marshall talked other owners into avoiding Blacks starting in 1934. In 1946 the other teams began signing Black players but Marshall and the Commanders did not until 1962 and then only under a threat by the JFK Administration. So from 1934 through 1946, largely due to this man's influence, Blacks were discriminated against in the NFL. He continued his own discrimination against them for 16 more years.

One year after he caved to pressure from the Presidency of the United States, he's a Hall of Famer. His racism is noted by the Hall of Fame, albeit hidden behind fluffy language.

"Marshall was totally involved in all aspects of his team's operation and endured his share of criticism for not integrating his team until being forced to do so in 1962."

In 1962 Marshall complied with the Presidential order because the Government could revoke his lease on DC Stadium, paid for with government money. So Marshall drafted Syracuse RB Ernie Davis in the 1st round in 1962. Davis refused to play for "that S.O.B." He was traded to Cleveland for Bobby Mitchell and Mitchell was the first Black to play for the Commanders.

I ask you, who hurt more people? Bob Hayes with his drug use? Or George Preston Marshall and his racism?

Marshall is enshrined because in many ways he changed the game.

So did Bob Hayes.

Bravo Hos, Bravo! :clap2:

 

[Big Country]

Very nice Hos,

Very nice!

:skins: :thankyou:

 

[big dog cowboy]

Here is one to consider. NFL observers now say it's time for Monk to get in. So take off your blinders and riddle me this - Pearson or Monk?