Some seasoned (or stale) thoughts from an old draftnik

[jobberone]

I think there is a good chance we will select a safety with one of our first three picks. This is a deep draft for safeties relative speaking.

 

[cowboyjoe]

- The "real" draft board is tiny. Though there are maybe 100-120 guys on our draft board every year, there are really only 20-30 guys pinpointed. Jimmy Johnson advocated focusing on twenty to thirty prospects, and then using strategies to get as many of them at the right value/round as possible (in fact he taught this to Belichick, who lately only had 25 guys on his entire draft board one year). I believe we continue this strategy. Last year, Mike Hamlin, Buehler and McGee were three of those guys we focused on and got. More on Mike Hamlin below.
- Trades involving vets, ever? Nice to think we can pawn off a vet for a draft pick (or the opposite), but can anyone remember the last time we did it during the draft itself? Before the draft for sure. But during? Maybe you guys can remember. It looks like something Jerry doesn't like to do.
- We will try hard to recoup our missing fifth pick. Hey, last year Baltimore moved up three spots in the first round and all it cost them was a fifth rounder. We always try to fill in missing low-round picks by trading down a little in early rounds. If you don't have that chip each round, your trading-up ability suffers. Like right now, we would have to use a fourth-round pick to trade up in some round because you don't have a fifth (likewise a sixth would be too little to get the deal done).
- We don't scout small schools much at all anymore. Ciskowski said this was our new policy over a year ago. Then we go and pick Jason Williams, so go figure.
- We take calls, not make calls in the War Room. Jerry once spoke of this like it was an axiom for him. I'm sure we make some, but often when we move up to get a desired player, it's because a team called him first with a trade-down deal. Jerry got rich buying old oil wells from distressed sellers.
- QB won't be an afterthought. Besides OL, DB, ILB and maybe a kick returner (which we tried for last year, but couldn't pull off), QB may get a late "need" look. Tim MacMahon/ESPN interviewed Jerry at the combine and wrote "Jerry admitted the Cowboys haven't seen much from McGee." (I think that means they're disappointed.) ... At least a priority UDFA to compete with McGee, but it won't be just a camp body this year. Maybe even a street FA vet QB to push McGee and Kitna a little.
- The strange case of Mike Hamlin. Late on the first day of the draft last year, around the time we were scheduled to make our first pick (second round), a Cowboys front office guy told 105.3 (anonymously) that the Cowboys weren't going to take a safety with the pick (one of our needs), but liked Mike Hamlin the next day. But we waited until our second fifth-round pick to finally take Hamlin. My question: if he was so coveted and safety was a need, why did we wait until nearly the end of the draft to take him. How did we know he would still be there? ... Answer: extraordinary spy stuff is going on with the player (and maybe his agent?) to know just who else is interested in him and how much interest, and it is the same way with the rest of the two dozen guys that we really covet. Either that, or the draft is rigged. The same thing happened the year before with T. Choice: The War Room scene was videotaped and shown on "The Blitz" later that night. The debate was whether we should trade our 111 pick for Cleveland's third round pick the next year. Jerry went to the magnetic draft board and said to the room: We can either have the running back and this guy (nametag in his hand - we also had a second fourth-round pick, 11 picks later), OR get the running back and have a three-pick next season. So we sent the 111 pick to Cleveland, taking T. Choice with the 122 pick. But how did Jerry speak with total confidence that Choice would be there 11 picks later?? ... If they weren't so confident, Jerry would have taken Choice with the 111 pick. It's very mystical.

super info buddy, thanks;

 

[Randy White]

Disappointed or they just haven't had much time to look at Stephen McGee yet? I felt Jerry Jones meant the latter.

I'm a McGee fan. Not only because of his skills, but because of what he could represent for the Dallas Cowboys in the future, ie: at least a #1 draft pick.

However, the way I read JJ on this one is that McGee hasn't shown much in terms of commitment. People might make fun of JJ, but he's not a fool. He knows 3rd string QBs barely get a couple of practice snaps, and most of their PT comes as the opponent's QB for the defense. However, if the guy is putting extra work on the film room, putting extra work after practice, putting extra work in the weight room and/or training field, he'd BE noticed.

We heard about Tony Romo before Tony Romo became Tony Romo. Most of us dimissed it ( including myself ) as medias' pet reporting ( usually the back up guys are the sources in many of their stories and in return they get some press lines ), but it was straight from the coaches. Now I know TR didn't get any more snaps than your typical 3rd or 4th QB in training camp or practice squad player, yet he was doing something for coaches to notice him.

McGee should adhere to the same principle that TR did.

 

[Randy White]

For some odd reason, veteran players have little to no value on draft day.

Human nature.. " grass is always greener on the other side " syndrome during draft season.

 

[the kid 05]

\
- QB won't be an afterthought. Besides OL, DB, ILB and maybe a kick returner (which we tried for last year, but couldn't pull off), QB may get a late "need" look. Tim MacMahon/ESPN interviewed Jerry at the combine and wrote "Jerry admitted the Cowboys haven't seen much from McGee." (I think that means they're disappointed.) ... At least a priority UDFA to compete with McGee, but it won't be just a camp body this year. Maybe even a street FA vet QB to push McGee and Kitna a little.

Dont be to surprised if we dont take a qb in this years draft as next years the qb spot is headed to be deep

 

[montgod]

For some odd reason, veteran players have little to no value on draft day.

Usually because teams have their draft plans set. There are of course some situations where a trade is made during the draft, but I believe those are often thought of in advance of the draft in case the guy they wanted to draft becomes unavailable.

After the draft, there usually is less trading because picks have been committed to and teams want to see the results of these picks before making any trades or FA signings. Again, depending on who the teams pick or obtain during draft day makes a huge difference on who they might want to get or sign after the draft.

In summary, a vets value to a team is definitely higher before and during the draft then after.

I think the contract they're signed to plays into it a lot. I've seen the eagles trade off guys a year or two after the extended them into a good deals for excellent value.

Contracts do play a role, but won't play as much a role this year with the uncapped season imo. This should be a very interesting draft in regards to trades.

With players such as Gaither, Atogwe, I would believe they could be in play for a trade if a team doesn't get the player they want in the draft especially with their contracts in limbo. This is where our very own Barber, Spears, Carpenter, and Crayton could possibly be options for trades especially to a team like Miami. It's a small chance, but one that could still occur. Looking forward to Thursday!

 

[CF74]

I'm a McGee fan. Not only because of his skills, but because of what he could represent for the Dallas Cowboys in the future, ie: at least a #1 draft pick.

However, the way I read JJ on this one is that McGee hasn't shown much in terms of commitment. People might make fun of JJ, but he's not a fool. He knows 3rd string QBs barely get a couple of practice snaps, and most of their PT comes as the opponent's QB for the defense. However, if the guy is putting extra work on the film room, putting extra work after practice, putting extra work in the weight room and/or training field, he'd BE noticed.

We heard about Tony Romo before Tony Romo became Tony Romo. Most of us dimissed it ( including myself ) as medias' pet reporting ( usually the back up guys are the sources in many of their stories and in return they get some press lines ), but it was straight from the coaches. Now I know TR didn't get any more snaps than your typical 3rd or 4th QB in training camp or practice squad player, yet he was doing something for coaches to notice him.

McGee should adhere to the same principle that TR did.

Well to be fair about it isn't McGee nursing a shoulder injury or something? Anywho I don't expect anything special from him until year #4...

 

[igtmfo]

In 2003, our draft board had at least 121 players listed just for the first five rounds, so we probably had 170 or 180 draftable players listed.

Adam, the Cowboys in fact do have only 100-120 picks on their board nowadays, per Todd Archer story in the Dal Morning News last year. Apparently Archer got the 120 from a Cowboys source, and Mike Lombardi shot that down and said it was even fewer, to quote:

"Now the Cowboys rank players by round and by position. And like a lot of teams, the number of names on the board is limited. The Cowboys will end up with roughly 120 names when the evaluation process is done.

'Even that sounds a little high,' (Mike) Lombardi said. 'Most of the time, it's 110, 105.'

Other teams, such as the New York Giants, will have more than 300."

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sharedc...wboys/stories/031709dnspocowlede.37660d6.html

 

[Stash]

- Trades involving vets, ever? Nice to think we can pawn off a vet for a draft pick (or the opposite), but can anyone remember the last time we did it during the draft itself? Before the draft for sure. But during? Maybe you guys can remember. It looks like something Jerry doesn't like to do.

It's definitely been a rarity as picks are more valuable and players less valuable on draft day. That said, I still think it happens this year.

- We will try hard to recoup our missing fifth pick. Hey, last year Baltimore moved up three spots in the first round and all it cost them was a fifth rounder. We always try to fill in missing low-round picks by trading down a little in early rounds. If you don't have that chip each round, your trading-up ability suffers. Like right now, we would have to use a fourth-round pick to trade up in some round because you don't have a fifth (likewise a sixth would be too little to get the deal done).

- We take calls, not make calls in the War Room. Jerry once spoke of this like it was an axiom for him. I'm sure we make some, but often when we move up to get a desired player, it's because a team called him first with a trade-down deal. Jerry got rich buying old oil wells from distressed sellers.

I think you make calls to trade up and take calls to trade down. We've mostly traded down lately so we've been taking the calls. If there's a player they covet close to #27, I think they'll make a call this year.

- QB won't be an afterthought. Besides OL, DB, ILB and maybe a kick returner (which we tried for last year, but couldn't pull off), QB may get a late "need" look. Tim MacMahon/ESPN interviewed Jerry at the combine and wrote "Jerry admitted the Cowboys haven't seen much from McGee." (I think that means they're disappointed.) ... At least a priority UDFA to compete with McGee, but it won't be just a camp body this year. Maybe even a street FA vet QB to push McGee and Kitna a little.

I think you misinterpret his comments. Bystating they haven't seen much from McGee he means just that. They're still in a wait and see mode with him. But I hardly take it that they're looking to replace him.

- The strange case of Mike Hamlin. Late on the first day of the draft last year, around the time we were scheduled to make our first pick (second round), a Cowboys front office guy told 105.3 (anonymously) that the Cowboys weren't going to take a safety with the pick (one of our needs), but liked Mike Hamlin the next day. But we waited until our second fifth-round pick to finally take Hamlin. My question: if he was so coveted and safety was a need, why did we wait until nearly the end of the draft to take him. How did we know he would still be there? ... Answer: extraordinary spy stuff is going on with the player (and maybe his agent?) to know just who else is interested in him and how much interest, and it is the same way with the rest of the two dozen guys that we really covet. Either that, or the draft is rigged. The same thing happened the year before with T. Choice: The War Room scene was videotaped and shown on "The Blitz" later that night. The debate was whether we should trade our 111 pick for Cleveland's third round pick the next year. Jerry went to the magnetic draft board and said to the room: We can either have the running back and this guy (nametag in his hand - we also had a second fourth-round pick, 11 picks later), OR get the running back and have a three-pick next season. So we sent the 111 pick to Cleveland, taking T. Choice with the 122 pick. But how did Jerry speak with total confidence that Choice would be there 11 picks later?? ... If they weren't so confident, Jerry would have taken Choice with the 111 pick. It's very mystical.

I disagree with this.

If they had so much inside knowledge, how did they get schnookered by Seattle last season and lose out on Max Unger?

And they then followed up that gaffe with a panicked trade down at a net loss.

 

[igtmfo]

We don't scout small schools much at all anymore. Ciskowski said this was our new policy over a year ago. Then we go and pick Jason Williams, so go figure.


Sorry dude don't buy it - when this year we looked at

Mike Iupati, OG/OT, Idaho
Vladimir Ducasse, OT, Massachusetts
Akwasi Owusu-Ansah, CB, Indiana (PA)
Brandon Lang, OLB/DE, Troy
Clay Harbor, FB/TE, Missouri St
Arthur Moats, OLB, James Madison
Larry Hart, OLB, Central Arkansas
J'Marcus Webb, OT, West Texas A&M
Aaron Morgan, DE/OLB, Louisiana-Monroe

An never would have taken Ware unless Troy is considered a big School
Brewster from Ball State

This confuses me too, but it was the subject of an entire DMN blog entry (I'm going to try to find the blog entry to clarify, but can't find it immediately ...)

It was some time before the 2009 draft and perhaps before the 2008 draft. Ciskowski was quoted that they did some study and found that 90-95 percent or more of guys on NFL rosters were from Div 1 schools, maybe even Div. 1 Bowl Division only, not even the Championship Division. So they were going to pretty much drop scouting those schools he said as it wasn't good bang for the buck to spend time on them.

Maybe Ciskowski meant our scouts don't visit those colleges or watch tape on them any more as part of routine scouting.

But there is a NFL group-scouting service that scouts those schools then sends info to all the teams, right? (I'm not sure if there is still such a thing) .. But anyway those small school studs do go to the combine and are seen by our guys.

So by not visiting those schools, we probably we have no idea of some small-school Gil Brandt total sleeper type, unless that guy pops up when the NFL scout finds him and he gets some word of mouth. ... Probably nowadays we might miss the Pat Crayton types.

Because Cowboy scouts have never seen these certain small-school studs in person, we invite them in for a visit before the draft because of the buzz on them.

Maybe that's what is happening as these dudes from La.-Monroe get a free bus ride to Valley Ranch.

 

[the kid 05]

Adam, the Cowboys in fact do have only 100-120 picks on their board nowadays, per Todd Archer story in the Dal Morning News last year. Apparently Archer got the 120 from a Cowboys source, and Mike Lombardi shot that down and said it was even fewer, to quote:

"Now the Cowboys rank players by round and by position. And like a lot of teams, the number of names on the board is limited. The Cowboys will end up with roughly 120 names when the evaluation process is done.

'Even that sounds a little high,' (Mike) Lombardi said. 'Most of the time, it's 110, 105.'

Other teams, such as the New York Giants, will have more than 300."

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sharedc...wboys/stories/031709dnspocowlede.37660d6.html

Ill put my odds in favor of Adam being right over Archer

 

[Randy White]

I disagree with this.

If they had so much inside knowledge, how did they get schnookered by Seattle last season and lose out on Max Unger?

Probably because they didn't get " schnookered. They just simply targeted Unger at that pick and weren't willing to move up to get him.

Remember that Jerrah has been burned by that too before: Quincy Carter and Ebenezer Ekuban, quickly comes to mind.

And they then followed up that gaffe with a panicked trade down at a net loss.

What makes you think they " panicked " ? IF anything, they did what a smart team should do: if you don't see anybody you like for your team at the spot you're picking, get out and move back.

Would you rather they drafted Williams with that 2nd round draft pick instead of moving down and getting him in the 3rd round ?

 

[Stash]

Probably because they didn't get " schnookered. They just simply targeted Unger at that pick and weren't willing to move up to get him.

Remember that Jerrah has been burned by that too before: Quincy Carter and Ebenezer Ekuban, quickly comes to mind.

Make whatever excuse you want. You know what happened, I know what happened.

What makes you think they " panicked " ? IF anything, they did what a smart team should do: if you don't see anybody you like for your team at the spot you're picking, get out and move back.

Would you rather they drafted Williams with that 2nd round draft pick instead of moving down and getting him in the 3rd round ?

The fact they took a loss in moving down tells me that they did.

They miscalculated on Unger falling to them and it cost them - twice.

They didn't get the guy they wanted and got less than value to trade down.

Lose-lose.

And now they have a linebacker project that isn't close to being ready to contribute.

Lose-lose-lose.