Some seasoned (or stale) thoughts from an old draftnik

igtmfo

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- The "real" draft board is tiny. Though there are maybe 100-120 guys on our draft board every year, there are really only 20-30 guys pinpointed. Jimmy Johnson advocated focusing on twenty to thirty prospects, and then using strategies to get as many of them at the right value/round as possible (in fact he taught this to Belichick, who lately only had 25 guys on his entire draft board one year). I believe we continue this strategy. Last year, Mike Hamlin, Buehler and McGee were three of those guys we focused on and got. More on Mike Hamlin below.
- Trades involving vets, ever? Nice to think we can pawn off a vet for a draft pick (or the opposite), but can anyone remember the last time we did it during the draft itself? Before the draft for sure. But during? Maybe you guys can remember. It looks like something Jerry doesn't like to do.
- We will try hard to recoup our missing fifth pick. Hey, last year Baltimore moved up three spots in the first round and all it cost them was a fifth rounder. We always try to fill in missing low-round picks by trading down a little in early rounds. If you don't have that chip each round, your trading-up ability suffers. Like right now, we would have to use a fourth-round pick to trade up in some round because you don't have a fifth (likewise a sixth would be too little to get the deal done).
- We don't scout small schools much at all anymore. Ciskowski said this was our new policy over a year ago. Then we go and pick Jason Williams, so go figure.
- We take calls, not make calls in the War Room. Jerry once spoke of this like it was an axiom for him. I'm sure we make some, but often when we move up to get a desired player, it's because a team called him first with a trade-down deal. Jerry got rich buying old oil wells from distressed sellers.
- QB won't be an afterthought. Besides OL, DB, ILB and maybe a kick returner (which we tried for last year, but couldn't pull off), QB may get a late "need" look. Tim MacMahon/ESPN interviewed Jerry at the combine and wrote "Jerry admitted the Cowboys haven't seen much from McGee." (I think that means they're disappointed.) ... At least a priority UDFA to compete with McGee, but it won't be just a camp body this year. Maybe even a street FA vet QB to push McGee and Kitna a little.
- The strange case of Mike Hamlin. Late on the first day of the draft last year, around the time we were scheduled to make our first pick (second round), a Cowboys front office guy told 105.3 (anonymously) that the Cowboys weren't going to take a safety with the pick (one of our needs), but liked Mike Hamlin the next day. But we waited until our second fifth-round pick to finally take Hamlin. My question: if he was so coveted and safety was a need, why did we wait until nearly the end of the draft to take him. How did we know he would still be there? ... Answer: extraordinary spy stuff is going on with the player (and maybe his agent?) to know just who else is interested in him and how much interest, and it is the same way with the rest of the two dozen guys that we really covet. Either that, or the draft is rigged. The same thing happened the year before with T. Choice: The War Room scene was videotaped and shown on "The Blitz" later that night. The debate was whether we should trade our 111 pick for Cleveland's third round pick the next year. Jerry went to the magnetic draft board and said to the room: We can either have the running back and this guy (nametag in his hand - we also had a second fourth-round pick, 11 picks later), OR get the running back and have a three-pick next season. So we sent the 111 pick to Cleveland, taking T. Choice with the 122 pick. But how did Jerry speak with total confidence that Choice would be there 11 picks later?? ... If they weren't so confident, Jerry would have taken Choice with the 111 pick. It's very mystical.
 
Nice food for thought this morning.

Thanks
 
Tim MacMahon/ESPN interviewed Jerry at the combine and wrote "Jerry admitted the Cowboys haven't seen much from McGee." (I think that means they're disappointed.)

Disappointed or they just haven't had much time to look at Stephen McGee yet?

I felt Jerry Jones meant the latter.
 
There are two things Im certain of -

1) We will not take a safety with one of our first 3 picks

Every year, every single mock draft has the cowboys taking a safety with one of their first 3 picks, and every year it doesn't happen. Jerry doesn't value the position of safety to merit using a high draft spot. Now that JJ has seen the results of drafting Sooner Roy, I don't think he'll use a high pick on a safety again.

2) We will trade down with one of our first 3 picks
JJ is obsessed with it - he likes recouping picks (like our round 5 this year) and getting picks for next year.
 
texmex;3352744 said:
There are two things Im certain of -

1) We will not take a safety with one of our first 3 picks

.

I'll take that bet.
 
Sarge;3352749 said:
I'll take that bet.

Me too. Unless we just have no chance to do it (ie, the guys we like are all gone before we pick) then I'd bet the farm 1 of those early picks will be a safety.
 
igtmfo;3352734 said:
[
- QB won't be an afterthought. Besides OL, DB, ILB and maybe a kick returner (which we tried for last year, but couldn't pull off), QB may get a late "need" look. Tim MacMahon/ESPN interviewed Jerry at the combine and wrote "Jerry admitted the Cowboys haven't seen much from McGee." (I think that means they're disappointed.) ... At least a priority UDFA to compete with McGee, but it won't be just a camp body this year. Maybe even a street FA vet QB to push McGee and Kitna a little.

I doubt very seriously they'll sign anyone to take Kitna's position. They like him, alot.

Having a 4th QB on the roster for mini camps and training camp is a given, but one definitely wont be drafted, and I seriously doubt they give up on McGee after 1 season. The reviews on him were all extremely positive last yr. Jones' comments were literal more than anything else, when they say they havent "seen much" he meant it, the guy got hurt last yr in preseason and missed alot of time.
 
igtmfo;3352734 said:
- The "real" draft board is tiny. Though there are maybe 100-120 guys on our draft board every year, there are really only 20-30 guys pinpointed. Jimmy Johnson advocated focusing on twenty to thirty prospects, and then using strategies to get as many of them at the right value/round as possible (in fact he taught this to Belichick, who lately only had 25 guys on his entire draft board one year). I believe we continue this strategy. Last year, Mike Hamlin, Buehler and McGee were three of those guys we focused on and got. More on Mike Hamlin below.
- Trades involving vets, ever? Nice to think we can pawn off a vet for a draft pick (or the opposite), but can anyone remember the last time we did it during the draft itself? Before the draft for sure. But during? Maybe you guys can remember. It looks like something Jerry doesn't like to do.
- We will try hard to recoup our missing fifth pick. Hey, last year Baltimore moved up three spots in the first round and all it cost them was a fifth rounder. We always try to fill in missing low-round picks by trading down a little in early rounds. If you don't have that chip each round, your trading-up ability suffers. Like right now, we would have to use a fourth-round pick to trade up in some round because you don't have a fifth (likewise a sixth would be too little to get the deal done).
- We don't scout small schools much at all anymore. Ciskowski said this was our new policy over a year ago. Then we go and pick Jason Williams, so go figure.
- We take calls, not make calls in the War Room. Jerry once spoke of this like it was an axiom for him. I'm sure we make some, but often when we move up to get a desired player, it's because a team called him first with a trade-down deal. Jerry got rich buying old oil wells from distressed sellers.
- QB won't be an afterthought. Besides OL, DB, ILB and maybe a kick returner (which we tried for last year, but couldn't pull off), QB may get a late "need" look. Tim MacMahon/ESPN interviewed Jerry at the combine and wrote "Jerry admitted the Cowboys haven't seen much from McGee." (I think that means they're disappointed.) ... At least a priority UDFA to compete with McGee, but it won't be just a camp body this year. Maybe even a street FA vet QB to push McGee and Kitna a little.
- The strange case of Mike Hamlin. Late on the first day of the draft last year, around the time we were scheduled to make our first pick (second round), a Cowboys front office guy told 105.3 (anonymously) that the Cowboys weren't going to take a safety with the pick (one of our needs), but liked Mike Hamlin the next day. But we waited until our second fifth-round pick to finally take Hamlin. My question: if he was so coveted and safety was a need, why did we wait until nearly the end of the draft to take him. How did we know he would still be there? ... Answer: extraordinary spy stuff is going on with the player (and maybe his agent?) to know just who else is interested in him and how much interest, and it is the same way with the rest of the two dozen guys that we really covet. Either that, or the draft is rigged. The same thing happened the year before with T. Choice: The War Room scene was videotaped and shown on "The Blitz" later that night. The debate was whether we should trade our 111 pick for Cleveland's third round pick the next year. Jerry went to the magnetic draft board and said to the room: We can either have the running back and this guy (nametag in his hand - we also had a second fourth-round pick, 11 picks later), OR get the running back and have a three-pick next season. So we sent the 111 pick to Cleveland, taking T. Choice with the 122 pick. But how did Jerry speak with total confidence that Choice would be there 11 picks later?? ... If they weren't so confident, Jerry would have taken Choice with the 111 pick. It's very mystical.

nicely thought out.

a couple of comments,

1. i agree that jj will attempt to re-coup the 5th rounder. he'll probably have to do that via one of the top 3 picks.

2. as for mcgee, the cowboys thought highly of him when they drafted him. unfortunately, he was injured during the pre-season, so they could see much (improvement) from him. i think mcgee has to show "something" this off-season to warrent the cowboys continuing to put in the resources to groom him.

i would be surprised if we invested a draft choice this year on a qb, but i do think we'll bring in one udfa to compete.
 
texmex;3352744 said:
There are two things Im certain of -

1) We will not take a safety with one of our first 3 picks

Every year, every single mock draft has the cowboys taking a safety with one of their first 3 picks, and every year it doesn't happen. Jerry doesn't value the position of safety to merit using a high draft spot. Now that JJ has seen the results of drafting Sooner Roy, I don't think he'll use a high pick on a safety again.

2) We will trade down with one of our first 3 picks
JJ is obsessed with it - he likes recouping picks (like our round 5 this year) and getting picks for next year.

1. I feel certain we will take a safety in the first three rounds. Jerry has tried the free agent route with mediocre success, so I think it's time he spent a higher draft pick. Not a first most likely unless we trade down but in the top three picks. We have always used late picks with mediocre results. When we spent a premium pick on the position we got Darren Woodson. Nuff said.

2. I like the trade down too. Belichick has made a career doing it. Trades down with a second this year and gets a first next year. I love it. And honestly, I don't think trading down has ever really hurt us. There are some occasions I wish we hadn't done it or that we traded up....last year we could have traded up but generally I like the strategy.
 
Nice read..

Unless we have secret plans to bring in a vet safety how can we not draft one in the 1st three rounds? You think lil Ball has their confidence alone? Watkins is garbage and Hamlin2 is unproven, gotta have insurance back there. My guess is we grab a vet somewhere. Personally hoping for either Allen or Burnett after first getting a solid o-lineman in the 1st which would mean trading up in the 2nd..

Interesting point about recouping the 5th, I see that happening very easily...
 
igtmfo;3352734 said:
- The "real" draft board is tiny. Though there are maybe 100-120 guys on our draft board every year, there are really only 20-30 guys pinpointed. Jimmy Johnson advocated focusing on twenty to thirty prospects, and then using strategies to get as many of them at the right value/round as possible (in fact he taught this to Belichick, who lately only had 25 guys on his entire draft board one year).

The Patriots have said that the report of them having that few players on their draft board is inaccurate.

In 2003, our draft board had at least 121 players listed just for the first five rounds, so we probably had 170 or 180 draftable players listed.



- The strange case of Mike Hamlin. Late on the first day of the draft last year, around the time we were scheduled to make our first pick (second round), a Cowboys front office guy told 105.3 (anonymously) that the Cowboys weren't going to take a safety with the pick (one of our needs), but liked Mike Hamlin the next day. But we waited until our second fifth-round pick to finally take Hamlin. My question: if he was so coveted and safety was a need, why did we wait until nearly the end of the draft to take him. How did we know he would still be there? ... Answer: extraordinary spy stuff is going on with the player (and maybe his agent?) to know just who else is interested in him and how much interest, and it is the same way with the rest of the two dozen guys that we really covet. Either that, or the draft is rigged.

Um, no. The Cowboys didn't KNOW he would be there. They simply played the odds that he would still be there, but they were willing to risk having someone else take him. That's part of the draft process. Teams try to project where players will go and how long they'll be available, but they lose players all the time because another team takes them before they can.
 
There is a good chance we don't take a S with the first 3 picks.

If they really like Sensy and Hamlin.
 
dbair1967;3352768 said:
Me too. Unless we just have no chance to do it (ie, the guys we like are all gone before we pick) then I'd bet the farm 1 of those early picks will be a safety.


Unless you can get a play maker at Safety, I'd rather have another cover corner.
 
Bluefin;3352742 said:
Disappointed or they just haven't had much time to look at Stephen McGee yet?

I felt Jerry Jones meant the latter.

I agree. McGee was injured last year, so he couldn't show what he wanted to. Also, McGee has a pro-style arm, although that wasn't seen at A&M. that wasn't his choice. That was that suck *** Franchione.
 
igtmfo;3352734 said:
- The "real" draft board is tiny. Though there are maybe 100-120 guys on our draft board every year, there are really only 20-30 guys pinpointed. Jimmy Johnson advocated focusing on twenty to thirty prospects, and then using strategies to get as many of them at the right value/round as possible (in fact he taught this to Belichick, who lately only had 25 guys on his entire draft board one year). I believe we continue this strategy. Last year, Mike Hamlin, Buehler and McGee were three of those guys we focused on and got. More on Mike Hamlin below.
- Trades involving vets, ever? Nice to think we can pawn off a vet for a draft pick (or the opposite), but can anyone remember the last time we did it during the draft itself? Before the draft for sure. But during? Maybe you guys can remember. It looks like something Jerry doesn't like to do.
- We will try hard to recoup our missing fifth pick. Hey, last year Baltimore moved up three spots in the first round and all it cost them was a fifth rounder. We always try to fill in missing low-round picks by trading down a little in early rounds. If you don't have that chip each round, your trading-up ability suffers. Like right now, we would have to use a fourth-round pick to trade up in some round because you don't have a fifth (likewise a sixth would be too little to get the deal done).
- We don't scout small schools much at all anymore. Ciskowski said this was our new policy over a year ago. Then we go and pick Jason Williams, so go figure.
- We take calls, not make calls in the War Room. Jerry once spoke of this like it was an axiom for him. I'm sure we make some, but often when we move up to get a desired player, it's because a team called him first with a trade-down deal. Jerry got rich buying old oil wells from distressed sellers.
- QB won't be an afterthought. Besides OL, DB, ILB and maybe a kick returner (which we tried for last year, but couldn't pull off), QB may get a late "need" look. Tim MacMahon/ESPN interviewed Jerry at the combine and wrote "Jerry admitted the Cowboys haven't seen much from McGee." (I think that means they're disappointed.) ... At least a priority UDFA to compete with McGee, but it won't be just a camp body this year. Maybe even a street FA vet QB to push McGee and Kitna a little.
- The strange case of Mike Hamlin. Late on the first day of the draft last year, around the time we were scheduled to make our first pick (second round), a Cowboys front office guy told 105.3 (anonymously) that the Cowboys weren't going to take a safety with the pick (one of our needs), but liked Mike Hamlin the next day. But we waited until our second fifth-round pick to finally take Hamlin. My question: if he was so coveted and safety was a need, why did we wait until nearly the end of the draft to take him. How did we know he would still be there? ... Answer: extraordinary spy stuff is going on with the player (and maybe his agent?) to know just who else is interested in him and how much interest, and it is the same way with the rest of the two dozen guys that we really covet. Either that, or the draft is rigged. The same thing happened the year before with T. Choice: The War Room scene was videotaped and shown on "The Blitz" later that night. The debate was whether we should trade our 111 pick for Cleveland's third round pick the next year. Jerry went to the magnetic draft board and said to the room: We can either have the running back and this guy (nametag in his hand - we also had a second fourth-round pick, 11 picks later), OR get the running back and have a three-pick next season. So we sent the 111 pick to Cleveland, taking T. Choice with the 122 pick. But how did Jerry speak with total confidence that Choice would be there 11 picks later?? ... If they weren't so confident, Jerry would have taken Choice with the 111 pick. It's very mystical.

Sometimes you just take chances and get lucky.They may have wanted to get Choice and Hamlin, but that at the price at that time.

When they took Emmitt Smith, it just fell that way to them, and did trade up to select for the value at that time. They were really trying to trade up to get James Francis, then Lamar Lathon, can't remember the other player they had ranked higher, but he was gone also. Emmitt was #4.

It's all a big gamble sometimes. I remember Pat Summerall saying in the 1990 Thanksgiving day game [didn't they beat the Commanders that game] saying how the Cowboys are starting to build a very good team, and with all the draft picks they have, and IF they get lucky, and that is what the draft is...LUCK, they will have a winner for years.
 
I'm not saying we won't trade down because history suggests we very well might. But I'll throw out this thought: If they needed/wanted to do what the Ravens did and move up three spots by throwing in a fifth, they could just substitute next years 4th as the the trade bait. The value is roughly equal.
 
igtmfo;3352734 said:
- The "real" draft board is tiny. Though there are maybe 100-120 guys on our draft board every year, there are really only 20-30 guys pinpointed. Jimmy Johnson advocated focusing on twenty to thirty prospects, and then using strategies to get as many of them at the right value/round as possible (in fact he taught this to Belichick, who lately only had 25 guys on his entire draft board one year). I believe we continue this strategy. Last year, Mike Hamlin, Buehler and McGee were three of those guys we focused on and got. More on Mike Hamlin below.
- Trades involving vets, ever? Nice to think we can pawn off a vet for a draft pick (or the opposite), but can anyone remember the last time we did it during the draft itself? Before the draft for sure. But during? Maybe you guys can remember. It looks like something Jerry doesn't like to do.
- We will try hard to recoup our missing fifth pick. Hey, last year Baltimore moved up three spots in the first round and all it cost them was a fifth rounder. We always try to fill in missing low-round picks by trading down a little in early rounds. If you don't have that chip each round, your trading-up ability suffers. Like right now, we would have to use a fourth-round pick to trade up in some round because you don't have a fifth (likewise a sixth would be too little to get the deal done).
- We don't scout small schools much at all anymore. Ciskowski said this was our new policy over a year ago. Then we go and pick Jason Williams, so go figure.
- We take calls, not make calls in the War Room. Jerry once spoke of this like it was an axiom for him. I'm sure we make some, but often when we move up to get a desired player, it's because a team called him first with a trade-down deal. Jerry got rich buying old oil wells from distressed sellers.
- QB won't be an afterthought. Besides OL, DB, ILB and maybe a kick returner (which we tried for last year, but couldn't pull off), QB may get a late "need" look. Tim MacMahon/ESPN interviewed Jerry at the combine and wrote "Jerry admitted the Cowboys haven't seen much from McGee." (I think that means they're disappointed.) ... At least a priority UDFA to compete with McGee, but it won't be just a camp body this year. Maybe even a street FA vet QB to push McGee and Kitna a little.
- The strange case of Mike Hamlin. Late on the first day of the draft last year, around the time we were scheduled to make our first pick (second round), a Cowboys front office guy told 105.3 (anonymously) that the Cowboys weren't going to take a safety with the pick (one of our needs), but liked Mike Hamlin the next day. But we waited until our second fifth-round pick to finally take Hamlin. My question: if he was so coveted and safety was a need, why did we wait until nearly the end of the draft to take him. How did we know he would still be there? ... Answer: extraordinary spy stuff is going on with the player (and maybe his agent?) to know just who else is interested in him and how much interest, and it is the same way with the rest of the two dozen guys that we really covet. Either that, or the draft is rigged. The same thing happened the year before with T. Choice: The War Room scene was videotaped and shown on "The Blitz" later that night. The debate was whether we should trade our 111 pick for Cleveland's third round pick the next year. Jerry went to the magnetic draft board and said to the room: We can either have the running back and this guy (nametag in his hand - we also had a second fourth-round pick, 11 picks later), OR get the running back and have a three-pick next season. So we sent the 111 pick to Cleveland, taking T. Choice with the 122 pick. But how did Jerry speak with total confidence that Choice would be there 11 picks later?? ... If they weren't so confident, Jerry would have taken Choice with the 111 pick. It's very mystical.


Good OP, but 20-30 guys on the board? Not possible. They may have 20-30 guys pin pointed through the 7 rounds they prefer. Sort of an ideal scenario. We get 6-8 of these 30 in a perfect world, but I doubt they only have that many guys they will draft.
 
igtmfo;3352734 said:
Trades involving vets, ever? Nice to think we can pawn off a vet for a draft pick (or the opposite), but can anyone remember the last time we did it during the draft itself? Before the draft for sure. But during? Maybe you guys can remember. It looks like something Jerry doesn't like to do.

For some odd reason, veteran players have little to no value on draft day.
 
67CowboysFan;3353085 said:
For some odd reason, veteran players have little to no value on draft day.

I think the contract they're signed to plays into it a lot. I've seen the eagles trade off guys a year or two after the extended them into a good deals for excellent value.
 
We don't scout small schools much at all anymore. Ciskowski said this was our new policy over a year ago. Then we go and pick Jason Williams, so go figure.


Sorry dude don't buy it - when this year we looked at

Mike Iupati, OG/OT, Idaho
Vladimir Ducasse, OT, Massachusetts
Akwasi Owusu-Ansah, CB, Indiana (PA)
Brandon Lang, OLB/DE, Troy
Clay Harbor, FB/TE, Missouri St
Arthur Moats, OLB, James Madison
Larry Hart, OLB, Central Arkansas
J'Marcus Webb, OT, West Texas A&M
Aaron Morgan, DE/OLB, Louisiana-Monroe

An never would have taken Ware unless Troy is considered a big School
Brewster from Ball State
 

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