Spencer vs Crawford

[Verdict]

This is correct.


After Spencer's first full season, he has 22 Tkls, 15 Solo, 5.5 TFL, 2 Sks.

After Crawfords first full season, he has 32 Tkls, 13 Solo, 13.5 TFL, 7 Sks.

If you look at both of these players, they are almost the same player with regards to athletic abilities, coming out of college. Crawford is a little bigger but otherwise, they are very similar.

I do not think Crawford would be an effective 3-4 OLB at all, but it is a very different analysis at defensive end. Crawford is a lot more like Jay Ratliff than he is Almost Anthony Spencer. I think Spencer will get exposed badly against the run playing as a 4-3 end every down. What they are asking him to do as an every down 4-3 end is a different job entirely. The other team is going to KNOW what his job description is at end and can game plan for it, whereas when he hopped into the end spot out of the base 3-4 they were not able to optimally exploit him (game plan him) because it wasn't on an every down basis.

 

[tm1119]

Yeah, Spencer was a pro bowler in his first full season too. Rolling my eyes too.

Ok wait so let me use your logic....Alex Albright has a good size/speed combo, showed some promise in limited time last year, and has upside. So Alex Albright or Sean Lee at MLB for us this year?

If your question was do you think Crawford has enough potential to start in 2014 so we dont have to extend Spencer now it would warrant a serious discussion. But entertaining the idea that Crawford is a better player than Spencer right now is just flat out silly to be honest.

 

[Verdict]

Ok wait so let me use your logic....Alex Albright has a good size/speed combo, showed some promise in limited time last year, and has upside. So Alex Albright or Sean Lee at MLB for us this year?

If your question was do you think Crawford has enough potential to start in 2014 so we dont have to extend Spencer now it would warrant a serious discussion. But entertaining the idea that Crawford is a better player than Spencer right now is just flat out silly to be honest.

We are not talking about Albright. Moreover Spencer is not half of the player that Shaun Lee is. I'm not sure what one has to do with the other.

 

[tm1119]

We are not talking about Albright. Moreover Spencer is not half of the player that Shaun Lee is. I'm not sure what one has to do with the other.

What I did with Albright and Lee is the exact same thing you are dong with Crawford and Spencer, and both are equally as ridiculous. But let me guess, you don't think Spencer is a good player? If so you aren't even worth arguing with.

 

[CowboysLegend365]

LOL @ saying "Spencer played DE in college".
Cool, but that was 6 years ago and he lost weight to play OLB. Now, a 250 pound DE, he is vulnerable against the run. Crawford went from 270 to 290 to play DE in the 3-4 so I do think he'll be better against the run right now. No doubt coaches will try to get Spencer to 265 to compete at DE but for 4 downs I think that's brutal. Hopefully the staff finds the right combination of linemen for run downs vs. passing downs

 

[Verdict]

What I did with Albright and Lee is the exact same thing you are dong with Crawford and Spencer, and both are equally as ridiculous. But let me guess, you don't think Spencer is a good player? If so you aren't even worth arguing with.

Tony Romo is a really great NFL QB but I doubt he could play defensive end very well. Yes that is absurd, but why do you automatically assume that Spencer will be all that and a bag of chips as an undersized defensive end? Is he your cousin or something?

 

[Idgit]

If Crawford takes the next step this year, it'll be in putting his pash rush technique together. Maybe next season he'll be at the point where he could take over without there being a significant loss in the passing game, if we're lucky. Right now, Spencer's a far better player than Crawford is, all around.

 

[respectdatstar]

I am sure Crawford could adda bit more weight and start at DT next to Ratliff. Then, you have a DL of Spencer, Ratliff, Crawford and Ware.

 

[Future]

Maybe you missed the point. I think several play the run better, but not all play DE.

No I got it...and I want to know who those guys are.

 

[Verdict]

No I got it...and I want to know who those guys are.

Is it even the subject of debate that both Lee and Ware are better against the run than Spencer? In my mind both are head and shoulders above him. Ware just isn't asked to do it quite as often.

I think most if not all of the defensive line (including Ratliff obviously) are better against the run than Spencer because of their size advantage. You guys get hung up on him being this force to be reckoned with....... but in a 3-4 he was being asked to do a certain thing in a certain context and he was above average at it, but that still doesn't mean it will translate to him being an all world run stopper at defensive end. It is similar but not the same. His skill set enables him to compete at defensive end much more effectively than corner, or nose guard. But he will be perfoming a slightly different job description at DE than he did at OLB, and there are no guarantees he will be able to do it.

Keep in mind if he gains 15 to 20 lbs to play DE there is no guarantee that he will be the same player he was last year. Think Felix Jones

 

[Future]

Is it even the subject of debate that both Lee and Ware are better against the run than Spencer? In my mind both are head and shoulders above him. Ware just isn't asked to do it quite as often.

I think most if not all of the defensive line (including Ratliff obviously) are better against the run than Spencer because of their size advantage. You guys get hung up on him being this force to be reckoned with....... but in a 3-4 he was being asked to do a certain thing in a certain context and he was above average at it, but that still doesn't mean it will translate to him being an all world run stopper at defensive end. It is similar but not the same. His skill set enables him to compete at defensive end much more effectively than corner, or nose guard. But he will be perfoming a slightly different job description at DE than he did at OLB, and there are no guarantees he will be able to do it.

Keep in mind if he gains 15 to 20 lbs to play DE there is no guarantee that he will be the same player he was last year. Think Felix Jones

While I don't agree that either Ware or Lee is better against the run, necessarily, at least I get the justification.

But you're saying that 300 lb DTs are better against the run b/c they have more size? That's off base imo. Teams run up the middle against Dallas up the middle all the time because our DTs and 34 DEs have not always been great against it. But what they don't do is run outside at Spencer...

Heck, look at the Skins, they ran at Ware for the entirety of both games, rather than at Spencer.

 

[Verdict]

While I don't agree that either Ware or Lee is better against the run, necessarily, at least I get the justification.

But you're saying that 300 lb DTs are better against the run b/c they have more size? That's off base imo. Teams run up the middle against Dallas up the middle all the time because our DTs and 34 DEs have not always been great against it. But what they don't do is run outside at Spencer...

Heck, look at the Skins, they ran at Ware for the entirety of both games, rather than at Spencer.

I know Spencer is a very polarizing player on this board. Most have very strong opinions on him. Most posters think I hate him as a player and want to see him gone. That actually isn't accurate at all. Personally I think he is a solid but not spectacular player.

It irks me to hear everyone pimping him to be twice as good as Lawrence Taylor in his prime. That's just not the case. I also think we are overpaying him and that irks me too not because I am writing the check but because it is a waste of cap space.

I also think it is fair to be somewhat skeptical that Spencer will be all world at defensive end. Don't you?

 

[Typhus]

I know Spencer is a very polarizing player on this board. Most have very strong opinions on him. Most posters think I hate him as a player and want to see him gone. That actually isn't accurate at all. Personally I think he is a solid but not spectacular player.

It irks me to hear everyone pimping him to be twice as good as Lawrence Taylor in his prime. That's just not the case. I also think we are overpaying him and that irks me too not because I am writing the check but because it is a waste of cap space.

I also think it is fair to be somewhat skeptical that Spencer will be all world at defensive end. Don't you?

If he achieves that this D will be top 3 in the league easily.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

So many headscratching comments in this thread.

 

[Future]

I also think it is fair to be somewhat skeptical that Spencer will be all world at defensive end. Don't you?

I'm not pimping him at all, but he is a great run defender. I'm not calling him LT, and honestly, I had no idea entering the thread whether you hated him or not :laugh2:

I agree you can be skeptical because he's making a position switch, sure. But I think the differences between the positions are a bit overblown, and he's going to have a great year.

 

[HowBoutDemCowboys1999]

I'm looking for some intelligent, rational discussion about who is better suited to play defensive end for us this year as this might shed some light on the Cowboys' short term and long term plans for Spencer.

If I remember correctly, Crawford is a bigger player who is similar to Spencer in that he is a lunch pail type of guy who has a pretty decent motor, but neither are abnormally fast. Spencer is likely a slightly better pass rusher (not much) and Crawford is probably slightly stronger against the run (not much). I would expect that Crawford would be much better against the run in a short yardage or goal line defense because of his size.

My concern for Spencer isn't that he can't rush the passer as an end. I think he will actually be pretty good at that. But I would think that his biggest asset against larger players (his speed advantage) will be largely negated on running plays because he will be operating in less "space" as an end. I think playing him at end will increase his sack numbers, but will make him much less effective against the run because offensive players will be able to get their hands on him much easier.

Thoughts?

Our best bet is to play Ware, Spencer and Crawford in a 3 man rotation that puts Crawford at LDE and Spencer at RDE on most 1st and some 2nd downs. And Ware on the bench for most 1st downs.

Ware plays most 2nd downs and all 3rd downs at RDE. Spencer plays LDE when Ware is in.

This gives Ware a reduced work load to help keep him healthy all through the season and adds size on more likely run downs.

 

[superpunk]

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Crawford at end and Spencer at solb.

 

[Idgit]

I know Spencer is a very polarizing player on this board. Most have very strong opinions on him. Most posters think I hate him as a player and want to see him gone. That actually isn't accurate at all. Personally I think he is a solid but not spectacular player.

It irks me to hear everyone pimping him to be twice as good as Lawrence Taylor in his prime. That's just not the case. I also think we are overpaying him and that irks me too not because I am writing the check but because it is a waste of cap space.

I also think it is fair to be somewhat skeptical that Spencer will be all world at defensive end. Don't you?

Spencer's a very good, not great, player. One who was a great value for us during his first contract, and now has been overpaid last season and will be overpaid this season if a reasonable extension has not been worked out. That's about all he's ever been pimped to be on CZ. The biggest debates around him last season were whether or not he justified a $7-8M AAV contract.

He won't be all world at DE, since he hasn't been all world at SOLB. He should be about as good there as he was in the 3-4, and we've seen him rush with his hand in the dirt already. It's not a great mystery what we'd be getting.

We'll see, after the draft, if a deal is worked out. That should tell us everything we need to know. I like the player a lot, but I'm happy with renting him just one more season if we're in a position to fill his spot with a legitimate talent. I just don't want us to pretend Spencer's barely more than JAG and try to plug in a castoff from another roster and pretend it wouldn't be a huge drop-off for us at a position of major need.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I do not think Crawford would be an effective 3-4 OLB at all, but it is a very different analysis at defensive end. Crawford is a lot more like Jay Ratliff than he is Almost Anthony Spencer. I think Spencer will get exposed badly against the run playing as a 4-3 end every down. What they are asking him to do as an every down 4-3 end is a different job entirely. The other team is going to KNOW what his job description is at end and can game plan for it, whereas when he hopped into the end spot out of the base 3-4 they were not able to optimally exploit him (game plan him) because it wasn't on an every down basis.

If you look at the agility numbers of each player, they are almost identical. Also, I watched Crawford at Boise St. He could have played OLB in a 34 but he would have had to have been coached and his training regiment would have had to have been different. We drafted him to be a DE so it's all for naught but seriously, he was almost the same player as Spencer coming out.

 

[xwalker]

Our best bet is to play Ware, Spencer and Crawford in a 3 man rotation that puts Crawford at LDE and Spencer at RDE on most 1st and some 2nd downs. And Ware on the bench for most 1st downs.

Ware plays most 2nd downs and all 3rd downs at RDE. Spencer plays LDE when Ware is in.

This gives Ware a reduced work load to help keep him healthy all through the season and adds size on more likely run downs.

It does appear that Spencer would be the best backup to Ware at WDE of players currently on the roster.