Sturm: Examining The Sack Rates

[Sturm1310]

http://sportsday.***BANNED-URL***/d.../08/17/sturm-talk-stat-matters-rushing-passer

 

[Sydla]

Good analysis.

 

[BAT]

Dang, I really miss Ware and Wade. And based on sack rate chart, Cowboys are going to miss Greg Hardy too.

 

[CowboyRoy]

http://sportsday.***BANNED-URL***/d.../08/17/sturm-talk-stat-matters-rushing-passer

The concern for me besides the paltry pass rush when they do pass is that teams will run all over us this year. lack of containment on the edge and then bad MLB, SS, and NOT LEE outside LBer play. The only hope there is that our offense is unstoppable and gets up big so that we reduce the other team to more passing downs.

 

[LocimusPrime]

So basically

• The Cowboys suck at sacking the qb in both raw sack numbers and sack rates
• Our best sack rate year was w Hardy
• We probably will never be an elite sack team because we don't want to depend the money
• The avg is one sack per 14 pass plays and the Rams pulled 42 pass plays w 1 sack on us
• We where above the NFL avg when we had Ware in 2011

Kind of depressing to read, but it's true. Wish we had the will and $ to get some REAL help.

 

[Sydla]

So basically

• The Cowboys suck at sacking the qb in both raw sack numbers and sack rates
• Our best sack rate year was w Hardy
• We probably will never be an elite sack team because we don't want to depend the money
• The avg is one sack per 14 pass plays and the Rams pulled 42 pass plays w 1 sack on us
• We where above the NFL avg when we had Ware in 2011

Kind of depressing to read, but it's true. Wish we had the will and $ to get some REAL help.

I think they could have improved the pass rush (making it go from anemic to passable) with a couple of key, but inexpensive signings. But they chose to go the cheap route.

If their gamble doesn't pay off, they've now wasted another of Romo's prime years to get him to a SB. They can talk all they want about how they are committed to Romo and want to see him get to the top of the mountain, but they ham and egg it with key roster spots which is a disservice to Romo.

 

[Idgit]

This is not news. The only real solution to the pass rush problem is better talent up front, and we choose to place our resources elsewhere for whatever bad reasons. If you don't get pressure, and you don't take the ball away, you better hope that RB you took at the top of the draft really does get you a lot of points, because you're going to need them.

The much easier route is making-do at the positions that are easier to fill or to develop from within--like RB and OG--and to add players selectively via VFA and, most importantly, to devote significant draft resources to the positions. This is what we've done with Lawrence. We tried the same thing with Gregory, but it bit us because he was a bad risk. Yet another area where everybody thinks we'll just coach 'em up, but like we continuously see in the NFL, there's no substitute for skill and talent.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Another year sitting in on my couch wondering if I can jump through my screen to sack the opposing QB.

I did really want a defensive player with our high pick but none were worth it except Ramsey who only would help the pass rush by the backend. No real help on the frontend for yet another season. I almost have to have high hopes for the new guys, really have no choice at this point cause they are all we have. When we lose the talent of Gregory and Hardy with their issues, it is hard to just replace in one year.

My only hope at this point is Tank comes back and brings us something from RDE, cause we really don't have one. Here's hoping he slims down a bit and can bring it from that position cause he is our best hope.

 

[Slim_JD]

Even if we had Gregory our dline would still be bad.

 

[Sydla]

The argument against signing DEs in free agency was this story that you couldn't tie up cap space and hurt yourself long term when it came to resigning guys like Frederick, Martin, etc.

And I get that if you are talking about dropping $65MM or whatever god awful number Vernon got.

But I can say with 100% certainty that if the Cowboys had signed Mario Williams to the deal he signed with Miami, and then grabbed Freeney, on the deal he signed with Atlanta, I'd feel much better about our DE situation AND the worst case scenario is that in a year, Freeney would be out of here anyway and you could cut Williams for only $2MM in dead money. A bargain IMO.

Last year we carried 6 DEs to open the season. Wouldn't you feel a bit better about our DE situation if your rotation at DE by mid-season was Lawrence, Freeney, Williams, Gregory, Irving and say Mawoya?

 

[erod]

Which would you rather have in a game......?

A defensive end that gets 1 sack and 5 pressures?

or

A defensive end that gets 0 sacks and 12 pressures?

 

[Longboysfan]

Where are you going to spend the CAP $$$$.

There's only so much to go around.
If you over do it - CAP hell.

I will say this. As an example.

Seattle with Russell Wilson in the early years were defensive monsters as they did not overpay at one position QB.

Now with his expanded CAP hit you see they can't pay everyone and have lost a lot of their top flight talent.

So all teams are stuck on the same playing field.
Top talent commands the CAP $$$$.

You have a short window when your top talent is not taking a large percentage of the CAP for the team.
The QB position, all QB's on roster and part of the 51 players considered as CAP players, are about 15 to 20% of a teams CAP hit.

So what is left you try to move about as best you can.

 

[Sydla]

Which would you rather have in a game......?

A defensive end that gets 1 sack and 5 pressures?

or

A defensive end that gets 0 sacks and 12 pressures?

Impossible to say. What if that sack leads to a fumble that turns into a TD? What if the pressures result in little resistance to the QB completing a fair share of passes?

You asked an impossible question.

But if you want to go that route.................... the Cowboys last year, according to SportingCharts.com had 71 QB hurries in 2015. Which would rank them 31st in the league.

 

[Sydla]

Where are you going to spend the CAP $$$$.

There's only so much to go around.
If you over do it - CAP hell.

I will say this. As an example.

Seattle with Russell Wilson in the early years were defensive monsters as they did not overpay at one position QB.

Now with his expanded CAP hit you see they can't pay everyone and have lost a lot of their top flight talent.

So all teams are stuck on the same playing field.
Top talent commands the CAP $$$$.

You have a short window when your top talent is not taking a large percentage of the CAP for the team.
The QB position, all QB's on roster and part of the 51 players considered as CAP players, are about 15 to 20% of a teams CAP hit.

So what is left you try to move about as best you can.

Makes sense if you are talking about signing a big ticket free agent.

But no one has really suggested that. They could have bolstered the pass rush this offseason by making some cheaper, but smart decisions. They didn't. They decided to go bottom of the barrel bargain shopping for DEs this offseason and have put their biggest shortcoming in the hands of a guy like Gregory, who has a drug problem, and complete unknowns like Irving and Mayowa. They have one known commodity at DE. Lawrence. That's it.

 

[erod]

Impossible to say. What if that sack leads to a fumble that turns into a TD? What if the pressures result in little resistance to the QB completing a fair share of passes?

You asked an impossible question.

Sacks can be vastly overrated. I remember watching Ware get an early sack, then getting pushed around for three quarters, then picking up a late sack in garbage time. Too often. It looked like a great game, when it really wasn't.

Another good example is Eli Manning. He gets rid of the ball so quickly, it can be hard to sack him, but if you get in his face, he'll give up the goose in interceptions. The sack total might be zero, but the pressures created a world of trouble.

 

[Sydla]

Sacks can be vastly overrated. I remember watching Ware get an early sack, then getting pushed around for three quarters, then picking up a late sack in garbage time. Too often. It looked like a great game, when it really wasn't.

Another good example is Eli Manning. He gets rid of the ball so quickly, it can be hard to sack him, but if you get in his face, he'll give up the goose in interceptions. The sack total might be zero, but the pressures created a world of trouble.

Of course you want to downplay the value of a sack because you are trying to discredit Sturm's overall point that the pass rush is just not good enough.

But chew on what I said above. The Cowboys were 2nd to last in the NFL in pressures last year. So no matter how you slice it, Sturm is pretty much spot on. The defense didn't generate much pressure last year at all and with a group of largely unknown edge players, the Cowboys are going to have to improve greatly even to get to "average" in pressuring the QB.

 

[HoosierCowboy]

If the offense is scoring, the sacks will go up. Teams will have to make big plays to get back into game, we will know they are passing, and QBs hold the ball longer. Bingo!

 

[LocimusPrime]

The argument against signing DEs in free agency was this story that you couldn't tie up cap space and hurt yourself long term when it came to resigning guys like Frederick, Martin, etc.

And I get that if you are talking about dropping $65MM or whatever god awful number Vernon got.

But I can say with 100% certainty that if the Cowboys had signed Mario Williams to the deal he signed with Miami, and then grabbed Freeney, on the deal he signed with Atlanta, I'd feel much better about our DE situation AND the worst case scenario is that in a year, Freeney would be out of here anyway and you could cut Williams for only $2MM in dead money. A bargain IMO.

Last year we carried 6 DEs to open the season. Wouldn't you feel a bit better about our DE situation if your rotation at DE by mid-season was Lawrence, Freeney, Williams, Gregory, Irving and say Mawoya?

Williams and freeney would have been great additions at reasonable rates. Sometimes you just gotta get more talented players via free agency. Alot of peeps think that Mawoya is the answer, but I don't think so. He's bounced around for a reason, and the Raiders didn't feel it was necessary to match our smallish contract offer.

On a side note, we get a lot of players from the raiders : Butler, Mawoya, McFadden ( was a raider before joining the boys), Kenyon Coleman ect..

 

[cowboyblue22]

QB sacks are very important the players that gets lots of them make lots of money

 

[DandyDon52]

Which would you rather have in a game......?

A defensive end that gets 1 sack and 5 pressures?

or

A defensive end that gets 0 sacks and 12 pressures?

How about........ A defensive end that gets 0 sacks and 12 pressures,3 batted balls,5 knockdowns,7 tackles !!